Avengers: Endgame [ SPOILERS FROM POST 613 ]

brianregan09 · 29-04-2019 01:09PM

Wong would have taken over as Sorcerer Supreme easy really

Zubeneschamali · 29-04-2019 01:10PM

brianregan09 wrote: »

Wong would have taken over as Sorcerer Supreme easy really

He has no stone though.

brianregan09 · 29-04-2019 01:12PM

Yeah but nobody else has either they were protectors of the stones more than users of them, they would still be able to protect the earth from other dimensions

Victor · 29-04-2019 01:13PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

But the stone is destroyed by Thanos in the first act, she is dead, Strange is dust, yet even without the Ancient One, Strange and the stone, no bad things overrun the earth while everyone is moping around.

In fairness, within a few years Thanos shows up again wanting to kill everyone. :pac:

Ping Chow Chi · 29-04-2019 01:18PM

If they took the time stone in the first avengers film and did not return it, that would have let that weird fella in Dr Strange win though.

Penn · 29-04-2019 01:21PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

He has no stone though.

They don't always use the stone though. The stone was more of a failsafe; a weapon for them to use in extreme circumstances, when it might appear that nothing else will work. Other than that, it was something that they protected and hid. She was saying that without their greatest weapon they could be left defenceless, and she was right (as Dr.Strange would have failed at defeating Dormammu without it).

Yes, the stones no longer exist because in the present they have now been destroyed by Thanos, so they have lost their greatest weapon, but given the cost of the alternative, it was the price which had to be paid.

Foxtrol · 29-04-2019 01:28PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

But the stone is destroyed by Thanos in the first act, she is dead, Strange is dust, yet even without the Ancient One, Strange and the stone, no bad things overrun the earth while everyone is moping around.

She is wrong.

How is she wrong, Dr Strange needed the time stone to defeat Dormammu in his movie in 2016, so we know it was required at this point at minimum?

She has some knowledge of the future (knowing about Dr Strange) but it is also clearly limited, not aware that he gives away the stone. Their group basically devotes their life in part to protect the time stone, so it isn't that surprising that she thinks it’ll be necessary again.

Again I'm not sure this is something to be caught up on, there's a decent explanation for it.

RayCun · 29-04-2019 01:30PM

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Failing to understand this

Some people really don't like Captain Marvel

paulbok · 29-04-2019 01:31PM

silverharp wrote: »

that would help , it included all life so including plants, so you would have a weird situation of trees and crops that disappeared 5 years ago suddenly reappearing.

What if you have say a tree re-appear where a person is now standing, is that how Groots people were created?

Ave Sodalis · 29-04-2019 01:32PM

Foxtrol wrote:

She has some knowledge of the future (knowing about Dr Strange) but it is also clearly limited, not aware that he gives away the stone. Their group basically devotes their life in part to protect the time stone, so it isn't that surprising that she thinks itâ€™ll be necessary again.

She can only see as far as her own death, which happens after Strange comes but before Infinity Wars.

Foxtrol · 29-04-2019 01:35PM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Anyone else think RDJ really didn't look healthy in the film?

Due to nearly dying of starvation he was supposed to look terrible before the 5 year jump. Feel that might have coloured my perception of him for the rest of the movie.

RDJ is starting to show his age and, though not quite Thor levels, didn’t put in the effort to get in superhero shape for this (which makes some sense being retired).

Tazzimus · 29-04-2019 01:40PM

The dude is 53 and had a fairly hard early life with all the drugs etc.

I actually think he looks alright considering his age, not Paul Rudd levels of alright, but decent for a man approaching his mid 50's

eviltimeban · 29-04-2019 01:44PM

So, if Cap went back to the 40s and got back with the girl, wouldn't everyone have known who he was? He was pretty famous. So they wouldn't have been looking for him or found him in the ice.

And how did he get back to the 40s, if he had only gone back to 1970? Could he go anywhere he wanted? My take was that Banner had plotted a course for him and was in control of where / when he was going.

Zubeneschamali · 29-04-2019 01:51PM

eviltimeban wrote: »

So, if Cap went back to the 40s and got back with the girl, wouldn't everyone have known who he was?

Maybe he grew a beard.

RayCun · 29-04-2019 01:52PM

eviltimeban wrote: »

And how did he get back to the 40s, if he had only gone back to 1970? Could he go anywhere he wanted? My take was that Banner had plotted a course for him and was in control of where / when he was going.

Remember they originally went back to New York during the invasion, and he and Tony used their second jump to travel to 1970 instead of back to their own time.

TerrorFirmer · 29-04-2019 01:53PM

Tazzimus wrote: »

The dude is 53 and had a fairly hard early life with all the drugs etc.

I actually think he looks alright considering his age, not Paul Rudd levels of alright, but decent for a man approaching his mid 50's

I would say he looks more than alright, he looks good for 54.

Interestingly, the guy who plays Crossbones (Frank Grillo) is also 53 and in great shape for a guy that age.

So, if Cap went back to the 40s and got back with the girl, wouldn't everyone have known who he was? He was pretty famous. So they wouldn't have been looking for him or found him in the ice.

I would guess that they chose the quiet life far, far away from everything they had known, so his other-self would have followed the same path as he once did and no-one would've been any the wiser.

On the 2nd point, I also guess he could've jumped again if he had a vial of pym's compound on his person. A one-way trip.

Drumpot · 29-04-2019 02:00PM

eviltimeban wrote: »

So, if Cap went back to the 40s and got back with the girl, wouldn't everyone have known who he was? He was pretty famous. So they wouldn't have been looking for him or found him in the ice.

And how did he get back to the 40s, if he had only gone back to 1970? Could he go anywhere he wanted? My take was that Banner had plotted a course for him and was in control of where / when he was going.

As I understood it, Cap had enough pym sauce to make enough Jumps to return all the stones, not just the 1970 jump. When he returned the stones he went back to 1940 instead of coming back to 2023z. What hulk was controlling on his end I don’t full know TBH.

There seems to be a couple of explanations of time travel. The ancient one suggested alternative universes are created once you go back in time and change the past. This makes sense in some regards but doesn’t explain how the Cap ended up back in 2023 unless you accept that the universes can reconnect.

If I understand it Right (i prob don’t) In that explanation Cap goes back to 1940s and immediately starts a new universe/dimension. I heard an explanation that I think suggests that this alternative dimension merges back with the original dimension in 2023 around the time the Cap is on the bench.

The issue of how Cap didn’t make any changes to the timeline is a head scratcher. But I think the less you think about it the better. Time travel should be accepted as a plot device and since it has unverifiable variables I don’t see the benefit of pulling it apart. We will all end up annoyed , confused or both!!!

Foxtrol · 29-04-2019 02:10PM

Drumpot wrote: »

There seems to be a couple of explanations of time travel. The ancient one suggested alternative universes are created once you go back in time and change the past. This makes sense in some regards but doesn’t explain how the Cap ended up back in 2023 unless you accept that the universes can reconnect.

If I understand it Right (i prob don’t) In that explanation Cap goes back to 1940s and immediately starts a new universe/dimension. I heard an explanation that I think suggests that this alternative dimension merges back with the original dimension in 2023 around the time the Cap is on the bench.

The issue of how Cap didn’t make any changes to the timeline is a head scratcher. But I think the less you think about it the better. Time travel should be accepted as a plot device and since it has unverifiable variables I don’t see the benefit of pulling it apart. We will all end up annoyed , confused or both!!!

Ancient One talks about the stones leaving a timeline and causing alternative universes, but this can be averted if they are all brought back right when they are taken. She doesn’t mention the actions of people themselves and the consistent statements in the movie is that any other action can’t change the past.

There’s no evidence in the previous movies that Cap isn’t living his life in the background until he reveals himself on the bench and Tony telling his Dad that saying points that there could be a time loop there, where past Tony impacted himself.

Drumpot · 29-04-2019 02:18PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Ancient One talks about the stones leaving a timeline and causing alternative universes, but this can be averted if they are all brought back right when they are taken. She doesn’t mention the actions of people themselves and the consistent statements in the movie is that any other action can’t change the past.

There’s no evidence in the previous movies that Cap isn’t living his life in the background until he reveals himself on the bench and Tony telling his Dad that saying points that there could be a time loop there, where past Tony impacted himself.

Was it banner or the ancient one who said that you can’t change the past?

Also did the ancient one not say that if you take a stone out of a timeline this is when the split universe happens?

Would that mean basically that if a stone isn’t taken then you aren’t altering a timeline (even if you go back in time) but it’s only if you take a stone that a new universe is made?

Foxtrol · 29-04-2019 02:38PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Was it banner or the ancient one who said that you can’t change the past?

Also did the ancient one not say that if you take a stone out of a timeline this is when the split universe happens?

Would that mean basically that if a stone isn’t taken then you aren’t altering a timeline (even if you go back in time) but it’s only if you take a stone that a new universe is made?

That’s what my take of it is from the evidence.

Ancient One only talks about how taking a stone out impacts the universe causing a split. She doesn’t seem bothered about what else they do there. That doesn’t prove things either way, but I would think she would have included any actions rather than focusing just on the stones.

Thor’s mother, who we can presume would have a higher-level knowledge about time travel based on technology/magic, without stating it outright seems to more be in line with that time cant be changed.

The biggest potential for inconsistency is the impact of taking Thanos etc out of their time and how that could not create an alternative universe. They could use Tony’s snap as an out in that though.

Like pretty much everything in the MCU I think it works well enough once you don’t overthink it.

w/s/p/c/ · 29-04-2019 03:04PM

Really really enjoyed this film. Good wrap up to the saga so far.

I love this thread 3000, however I think some people are really reading too much into the time travel and the what if's. I agree there are some questions that need to be answered, but why bother dwell on it. Same goes for the female hero team up scene. Who cares, it was about 10 seconds long ffs.

Enjoy the comic book superhero movie for what it was!

PhiloCypher · 29-04-2019 03:41PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Was it banner or the ancient one who said that you can’t change the past?

Also did the ancient one not say that if you take a stone out of a timeline this is when the split universe happens?

Would that mean basically that if a stone isn’t taken then you aren’t altering a timeline (even if you go back in time) but it’s only if you take a stone that a new universe is made?

My read from the scene between the ancient one and Hulk is that unless the stone is returned to that time and place she will be unable to pass the The time stone onto Strange and thus he will be unable to trap the interdimenional cthulu from his solo film in a time paradox and the world ends before Thanos even arrives. A pretty fundamental split.

Ethereal Cereal · 29-04-2019 03:42PM

w/s/p/c/ wrote: »

Really really enjoyed this film. Good wrap up to the saga so far.

I love this thread 3000, however I think some people are really reading too much into the time travel and the what if's. I agree there are some questions that need to be answered, but why bother dwell on it. Same goes for the female hero team up scene. Who cares, it was about 10 seconds long ffs.

Enjoy the comic book superhero movie for what it was!

Yea, but if a movie doesn't adhere to its own internal logic, it reduces the standard of it IMO.

This happens mostly in time travel movies, but there are often deus ex machina's introduced. I think for a movie this big, that is receiving so much critical attention, they would have the writing at %100

PhiloCypher · 29-04-2019 03:47PM

Can anyone remember what Peggy's relationship status was. I vaguely recall a scene between a newly returned Cap and a dying Peggy where she mentions a deceased husband. Did he die young or did Cap break up a marriage to have his happy ending.

Mitch Connor · 29-04-2019 03:47PM

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Can anyone remember what Peggy's relationship status was. I vaguely recall a scene between a newly returned Cap and a dying Peggy where she mentions a deceased husband. Did he die young or did Cap break up a marriage to have his happy ending.

could have got back there before she found the person she married.

Mitch Connor · 29-04-2019 03:51PM

PhiloCypher wrote: »

My read from the scene between the ancient one and Hulk is that unless the stone is returned to that time and place she will be unable to pass the The time stone onto Strange and thus he will be unable to trap the interdimenional cthulu from his solo film in a time paradox and the world ends before Thanos even arrives. A pretty fundamental split.

My memory of it is that the stones are tied to reality itself and removing it causes fundemental problems, rather than it being a paradox issue for the Strange movie.

kerplun k · 29-04-2019 04:09PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

could have got back there before she found the person she married.

Hell, even if she was married, it’s fricken Captain America. Did ye not see his ass shot in endgame? As far as I’m concerned, that’s Americas ass. Either way she’s ending up with Cap, and who could blame her.

Foxtrol · 29-04-2019 04:14PM

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Can anyone remember what Peggy's relationship status was. I vaguely recall a scene between a newly returned Cap and a dying Peggy where she mentions a deceased husband. Did he die young or did Cap break up a marriage to have his happy ending.

Cap watches a recording of her saying that during the Hydra jailbreak he saved 1000 men, including the man she married. Vague enough answer that it could be that she’s talking about Cap himself, being purposefully vague to not give away his time travel secret.

Being a spy with huge resources I’m sure they could have hidden him well enough. Similarly, they could have had their dance, realized after a while that they didn’t suit each other, and he went off and married some other woman, who was completely unaware of his time travels.

Again, they left enough room that you can explain it away.

Midnight_EG · 29-04-2019 04:17PM

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eviltimeban · 29-04-2019 04:27PM

I wonder why Dominic Cooper didn't return to play Howard Stark.

edit: Oh I just saw that he had already been replaced for Iron Man 2.

Avengers: Endgame [** SPOILERS FROM POST 613 **]

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Avengers: Endgame [ SPOILERS FROM POST 613 ]