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Random thoughts on measuring Red Light Jumping

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24

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    #32
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Where are you getting that from?
    There are occasions where a cyclist must break a light as it won't change unless a car approaches and triggers the sensor. I can't think of any safety reason though.

    https://www.minnpost.com/minnesota-blog-cabin/2015/08/why-do-bikers-run-red-lights/

    Safety reasons: for instance, one reason I will always go through a red light (usually wheeling my bike rather than cycling) if it's clear is if there's a big truck behind me.


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    #33
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    https://www.minnpost.com/minnesota-blog-cabin/2015/08/why-do-bikers-run-red-lights/

    Safety reasons: for instance, one reason I will always go through a red light (usually wheeling my bike rather than cycling) if it's clear is if there's a big truck behind me.

    I think it's safe to say that your behaviour is not typical :)


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    #34
    Moody_mona
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭Moody_mona


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    https://www.minnpost.com/minnesota-blog-cabin/2015/08/why-do-bikers-run-red-lights/

    Safety reasons: for instance, one reason I will always go through a red light (usually wheeling my bike rather than cycling) if it's clear is if there's a big truck behind me.

    But if you're doing it for safety, and to get a head start, away from a truck, why would dismount and slow yourself down?


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    #35
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    RayCun wrote: »
    I think it's safe to say that your behaviour is not typical :)

    I see plenty of people doing this. Oddly, a garda fined someone for wheeling his bicycle across the lights - "evading traffic lights" when the lights were green for walking but red for traffic recently. I thought it was a crazy, spiteful fine.
    Moody_mona wrote: »
    But if you're doing it for safety, and to get a head start, away from a truck, why would dismount and slow yourself down?

    It's often safer to walk across using the pedestrian crossing and island.


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    #36
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    https://www.minnpost.com/minnesota-blog-cabin/2015/08/why-do-bikers-run-red-lights/

    Safety reasons: for instance, one reason I will always go through a red light (usually wheeling my bike rather than cycling) if it's clear is if there's a big truck behind me.
    Hang on. If I pull up to a set of lights and there's a truck behind me, I'll either get into his line of vision and stay there or step onto the path and let him past. I've never seen someone cycle or walk their bike through a red light to avoid the scenario you mentioned.
    So that's one "safety" issue. Have you any more?


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    #37
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Hang on. If I pull up to a set of lights and there's a truck behind me, I'll either get into his line of vision and stay there or step onto the path and let him past. I've never seen someone cycle or walk their bike through a red light to avoid the scenario you mentioned.
    So that's one "safety" issue. Have you any more?

    HAHAHAHAHA :D:p:pac::):rolleyes:


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    #38
    Charles Ingles
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Charles Ingles


    I see it hundreds of times a Day.
    Cyclists should to be licensed , insurance and have a licence plate visible on their bikes.
    This would stop the lawlessness we see on the roads every day.


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    #39
    Alkers
    Registered Users Posts: 6,811 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Rechuchote wrote:
    It's a cliche of traffic study but it's true: cyclists go through red lights for safety; drivers go through red lights to save time.

    Cyclists go through to save physical effort associated with starting from a standing start. I'd say this is more of a factor than time tbh


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    #40
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,450 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    This would stop the lawlessness we see on the roads every day.
    hello and welcome to the cycling forum.
    the measures you mention don't seem to stop motorists from doing this, not sure why it would stop cyclists.

    if you're new to the forum, please have a read of the charter, as it mentions, it's not here for non-cyclists to have a pop at cyclists, just in case clarity was needed.


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    #41
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    I see it hundreds of times a Day.
    Cyclists should to be licensed , insurance and have a licence plate visible on their bikes.
    This would stop the lawlessness we see on the roads every day.

    I guess you'd be a strong advocate of red light cameras, speed cameras, and other measures to crack down on the lawless behaviour we see by car drivers every day, which (unlike lawless cyclists) contributes to so many road deaths every year?


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    #42
    Charles Ingles
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Charles Ingles


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    hello and welcome to the cycling forum.
    the measures you mention don't seem to stop motorists from doing this, not sure why it would stop cyclists.

    if you're new to the forum, please have a read of the charter, as it mentions, it's not here for non-cyclists to have a pop at cyclists, just in case clarity was needed.
    I am a cyclist , I cycle to the city centre every day.
    You just assumed I was a non cyclist, I see bikers breaking lights hundreds of times a day.
    I do think the measures I suggest would help because it's s free for all at the moment, these people will ruin it for the good bikers


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    #43
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Nobody needs to break a red light for safety reasons.

    There are ways of avoiding hazards without putting yourself in another hazardous situation.


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    #44
    Charles Ingles
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Charles Ingles


    RayCun wrote: »
    I guess you'd be a strong advocate of red light cameras, speed cameras, and other measures to crack down on the lawless behaviour we see by car drivers every day, which (unlike lawless cyclists) contributes to so many road deaths every year?

    Yes don't even get me started on cars they are worse than bikers


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    #45
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    I despise breaking lights by cars, cyclists or pedestrians. I just saw that cycling monitor study which has Ireland at the bottom of European ladder (I was looking at it to check the stats for another country) together with mostly Balkan countries. Attitude to red lights seems to be in tune with that.

    I don't buy safety aspect, it's just the attitude that rules are for other people. I spent a week happily driving slowly on busy roads in another country and overtaking cyclist after cyclist of all ages, vast majority of them obeying rules of the road. We had to drive into city centre from the airport yesterday and I was straight away greeted by two cyclists and a car breaking the red light.


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    #46
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,509 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    Cyclists should to be licensed , insurance and have a licence plate visible on their bikes.
    This would stop the lawlessness we see on the roads every day.

    Why not just ban cycling, would cost the state a lot less, save time, staffing and effort?


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    #47
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    I don't think licensing of cyclists is feasible or necessary but I do think that it should be mandatory for cyclists to carry a form if id. If someone is stopped for breaking the law guards should be able to establish the identity quickly and issue a fine.


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    #48
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Why not just ban cycling, would cost the state a lot less, save time, staffing and effort?

    Ooh, yes, I think I'll buy a car and sit in the traffic jams with the rest of the drivers! If the 95,000 cyclists who enter Dublin daily did the same it would really help!
    meeeeh wrote: »
    I don't think licensing of cyclists is feasible or necessary but I do think that it should be mandatory for cyclists to carry a form if id. If someone is stopped for breaking the law guards should be able to establish the identity quickly and issue a fine.

    It's an offence to give a wrong name to a garda; so unusual an offence that I remember one prosecution of a cyclist for this in the last 20 years.


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    #49
    Charles Ingles
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Charles Ingles


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Why not just ban cycling, would cost the state a lot less, save time, staffing and effort?

    No need to ban, just some responsibility will help.
    As a cyclist if wouldn't object to rules to ensure safety


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    #50
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,509 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    https://www.minnpost.com/minnesota-blog-cabin/2015/08/why-do-bikers-run-red-lights/

    Safety reasons: for instance, one reason I will always go through a red light (usually wheeling my bike rather than cycling) if it's clear is if there's a big truck behind me.

    Wheeling or cycling, if someone feels like they should proceed through the traffic signals, then the junction has to be redesigned to promote safety...
    The person on the bicycle should have a protected area to wait for the signal to change, and should also have a 20 seconds advance green from motorised traffic.

    Otherwise you can just take your chances that the driver sitting up in a high vehicle can see you when he starts off at the green...


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    #51
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,450 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    meeeeh wrote: »
    I don't think licensing of cyclists is feasible or necessary but I do think that it should be mandatory for cyclists to carry a form if id. If someone is stopped for breaking the law guards should be able to establish the identity quickly and issue a fine.
    the law already states that if a garda stops a cyclist for a traffic violation, and the cyclist cannot prove their identity in a way that satisfies the garda, the garda is allowed confiscate the bike.

    well, i have heard this several times, i must try to see if a primary source exists.


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    #52
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    meeeeh wrote: »
    I don't think licensing of cyclists is feasible or necessary but I do think that it should be mandatory for cyclists to carry a form if id. If someone is stopped for breaking the law guards should be able to establish the identity quickly and issue a fine.

    There isn't a national ID card - and there would be a lot of resistance to introducing one, let alone making it a requirement to produce it on request. The same problem arises for littering, or other petty crimes where the punishment would be a fine rather than incarceration.

    Easier to confiscate the bike.


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    #53
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    It's an offence to give a wrong name to a garda; so unusual an offence that I remember one prosecution of a cyclist for this in the last 20 years.
    I'm sure nobody does it like nobody breaks the red lights.


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    #54
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    My stupidometer has just broken; going out to get it mended now.


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    #55
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Otherwise you can just take your chances that the driver sitting up in a high vehicle can see you when he starts off at the green...

    Either the driver in the high vehicle arrived at the lights after you, in which case they could see you as they drove up.
    Or they arrived before you, so if you are worried about being invisible you could stay behind them.


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    #56
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    the law already states that if a garda stops a cyclist for a traffic violation, and the cyclist cannot prove their identity in a way that satisfies the garda, the garda is allowed confiscate the bike.

    well, i have heard this several times, i must try to see if a primary source exists.


    Road Traffic Act 2010
    80.— The following section is substituted for section 108 of the Principal Act:
    "108.— A member of the Garda Sh may demand of a person in charge of a pedal cycle whom the member suspects of having committed any crime or offence or of having been concerned or involved in a collision or other event in a public place causing injury to person or property, the name and address and date of birth of such person, and if such a person refuses or fails to give his or her name and address or date of birth or gives a name or address or date of birth which the member has reasonable grounds for believing to be false or misleading, the member may take the cycle, by reasonable force if necessary, and retain it until such time as he or she is satisfied as to the identity of such person".


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    #57
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    RayCun wrote: »
    There isn't a national ID card - and there would be a lot of resistance to introducing one, let alone making it a requirement to produce it on request. The same problem arises for littering, or other petty crimes where the punishment would be a fine rather than incarceration.

    Easier to confiscate the bike.

    It's a complete waste of time to try to confiscate the bike. Nobody is whinging about needing to produce a form of identification when in the car, or opening a bank account and so on. If people want to use the roads they should be able to produce an id. I know Irish aren't fond of national ids and I'm fine with that but it does mean people can do whatever they feel like on the roads and dump rubbish wherever they feel like it. (I'm not saying where I was doesn't have serious problems on the roads but frankly I don't like drivers behave towards cyclists in Ireland and I don't like how cyclists behave in the cities. Irish road safety stats are good but I can't help to feel they are slightly flattered by empty roads outside cities. )


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    #58
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I think if the cops had a problem identifying lawbreaking cyclists, they'd say so. They've certainly had no issue handing out FCPNs since they were introduced.

    Requiring cyclists to register themselves or carry ID is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Money down the drain, in other words.


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    #59
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,483 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    I see it hundreds of times a Day.
    Cyclists should to be licensed , insurance and have a licence plate visible on their bikes.
    This would stop the lawlessness we see on the roads every day.

    There is a strong smell of a farm right now. Anyone with a bull nearby?

    If you are going to exaggerate at least make it plausible.


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    #60
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,450 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Nobody is whinging about needing to produce a form of identification when in the car
    no, because it's already explicit in law. you need to be able to produce a driving licence if requested.


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    #61
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Nobody is whinging about needing to produce a form of identification when in the car, or opening a bank account and so on.

    You don't need to have your licence with you when you're in the car. They'll tell you to bring it to the station next day.

    Opening a bank account is a planned event.

    The only forms of photo ID I own are my passport and driving licence. I don't usually carry either of them.


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