Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Ireland's first charity-funded community air ambulance still awaiting approval to ope

Options
  • 24-04-2019 5:16pm
    #1
    Balf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭


    I'm in two, or possibly even three, minds about this initiative
    https://www.thejournal.ie/charity-air-ambulance-awaiting-approval-4604862-Apr2019/

    IRELAND’S FIRST CHARITY-funded community air ambulance is appealing for the service to be approved to go live, as it awaits ministerial approval.
    Who would actually go so far with a project, without having whatever clearance or recognition they need from HSE? Can I build a hospital, staff it, and then say to HSE "Go Fund Me" and plaster it all over the Journal if they don't.

    There were some technical issue around the service, but I've haven't the competence to comment on that.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/irelands-first-community-air-ambulance-draws-concern-from-doctors-870850.html

    However, if I've a final bugbear its with the claim that this is charity-funded (as distinct from charity-operated).

    A quick look at their accounts (which, in fairness, they publish up to 2017) show that most of their funding has come from Government - with a large grant of €525,000 given to them in 2017.

    https://www.icrr.ie/governance/financials/

    So why's one Government body giving money to a project, if its causing a problem for the Government body that's actually responsible for such services?

    Why fund this crowd, and not just invest in the Air Corps service?


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    micosoft
    Registered Users Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭micosoft


    Just like when local hospitals were fundraising towards CAT scanners but no staff for them. Raising money in this way is a poor model. You need sustainable revenue to fund operations and a bit like hospital beds, it's not the bed that costs money but the staffing and capability around that bed. It must be difficult for those involved in planning in the Health Service dealing with these politically motivated white elephants. Perhaps we should have a generic hospital fund run by the Govt. for those that want to give more.


  • Options
    #3
    marketty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭marketty


    Balf wrote:
    Why fund this crowd, and not just invest in the Air Corps service?


    Sadly, the air corps has the gear, the funding needed is in staff retention (read pay), and the government has decided to allow capabilities collapse completely across the entire defence forces, rather than deal with the likely follow on pay claims from the rest of the public sector. It is a matter of political ideology for FF/FG to privatise as much of this stuff as possible. E500 million to CHC for SAR over 10 years, E7 million over two years to a private air ambulance for overnight cover, used three times apparently in its first year. That's over E1 million a trip, while air corps aircraft sit in the hangar for want of pilots.


  • Options
    #4
    Storm 10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Storm 10


    Air Corps 112 is working brilliantly across the Country in the Air Ambulance role for quite some time now


  • Options
    #5
    faoiarvok
    Registered Users Posts: 644 ✭✭✭faoiarvok


    Storm 10 wrote: »
    Air Corps 112 is working brilliantly across the Country in the Air Ambulance role for quite some time now

    Absolutely is, but if there’s a second asset on offer, why not have both?


  • Options
    #6
    notharrypotter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭notharrypotter


    faoiarvok wrote: »
    Absolutely is, but if there’s a second asset on offer, why not have both?
    This "asset" will require state subvention at every turn.
    The "charitable" status is a red herring.

    Airplanes are sexy.
    The image of a rescue chopper swooping down from a clear blue sky is a powerful image.
    Take off the rose tinted glasses and look dispassionately at what is on offer versus what is needed.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    stickersss3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭stickersss3


    Making a throwaway for this because I know for a fact this will be read by the powers that be.

    This essentially boils down to the sheer incompetence of NAS upper management. I wish the general public knew just how dire the situation has become in NAS between bullyboy management in NAS that have been hell bent on running the service into the ground these past several years. and they're almost untouchable by the HSE, and they know it. They've done a fantastic job at endangering lives and wrecking what was a once decently ran service by the health boards.
    They even give themselves regular awards for it, I shít you not.

    This helicopter mess up is just par for the norm at this stage in the service, and I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing just packed it in soon.


    All the staff are trained on the helicopter. They have a full compliment of EMT's and AP's recruited and shown the ropes since before Christmas.
    They've all been left in the dark about the whole ordeal and just regularly fobbed off. Even the training was poorly organised and there was a lot of internal conflict as to how the staff were treated over the whole thing.

    The doctor issue is a bit mad. There is nothing a doctor can do pre-hospital that an AP cannot, bar some mad stuff like open chest surgery.

    I'd even go as far to say that AP's are more clinically experienced, calm and better pre-hospital practitioners than most doctors.

    Speaking of cork, I heard that CUH are kicking up major fuss about not accepting or attending the helicopter at the hospital because the doctors aren't on board. I have no names in particular here. Just words doing the rounds.
    It's mad because CUH already accept the chopper from the coastguard/aer corps which are non doctor led.

    It's an utter shambles on so many levels beyond the helicopter situation.

    Meanwhile, you have the helicopter operator, the pilots, and all the investors twidling their thumbs waiting for NAS management to get off their holes.
    It's grand though they're attending more self run award ceremonies soon about how they're "world class".
    A news letter will be issued to all grunts on the ground getting hammered.


  • Options
    #8
    AnRothar
    Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭AnRothar


    stickersss3 wrote: »

    the helicopter operator, the pilots, and all the investors twidling their thumbs waiting
    The "backers" are hoping that
    NAS management
    will bankroll their long shot and then they are sorted.


  • Options
    #9
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,528 ✭✭✭kub


    To me the word ' Backers ' suggest a business venture, is this what this service is?


    What extra service is it going to provide that is not already being provided by the Aer Corp and Coastguard services ?


    Am I correct in thinking that some body set this service up and is now just waiting for The Government to automatically fund it ?


  • Options
    #10
    irishfire
    Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭irishfire


    kub wrote:
    What extra service is it going to provide that is not already being provided by the Aer Corp and Coastguard services ?

    kub wrote:
    Am I correct in thinking that some body set this service up and is now just waiting for The Government to automatically fund it ?


    No, the increased availability of such resources means that dispatchers can allocate air ambulances to calls that previously may not have had that response because the capacity is then there to respond to other calls as they come in. The coastguard has always been complimentary to Athlone and a last resort since they could be needed for an emergency at sea. This extra air ambulance in turn starts to improve response and treatment times overall, rather than for the subset of calls that currently get an air response.

    As far as I know the charity behind it run the doctors response Jeeps around Cork that were featured on an RTE program a few years back, and this was their progression.


  • Options
    #11
    thomil
    Registered Users Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭thomil


    kub wrote: »
    To me the word ' Backers ' suggest a business venture, is this what this service is?

    The "backers" are the people who have donated and are donating to get this service off the ground. People like me, for example.

    kub wrote: »
    What extra service is it going to provide that is not already being provided by the Aer Corp and Coastguard services ?

    It will provide a dedicated air ambulance. The Air Corps has only six medium helicopters available to cover all its tasks, and if in a pinch they'll withdraw the AW139 currently based at Custume Barracks without thinking twice if that"s the only way they can fulfil their other tasks.
    Similarly, The Coast Guard could very well find themselves without a helicopter available either, simply because their Sikorsky S92 are primarily Search & Rescue aircraft, not dedicated air ambulances, although they can perform that role.
    The A109 helicopter of Irish Community Rapid Response is designed purely as an air ambulance. ICRR have a contract with the actual owners & operators of the helicopter, Sloane Helicopters, to have an aircraft and crew available at all times. Make no mistake, this could be the difference between life & death for patients.

    kub wrote: »
    Am I correct in thinking that some body set this service up and is now just waiting for The Government to automatically fund it ?

    You are absolutely NOT correct! This service is run, as mentioned above, by Irish Community Rapid Response. They've been operating land based emergency medical services since 2008. They have ten dedicated emergency response vehicles in operation, and over 200 doctors at their disposal. This is not some crudely cooked up operation, they know what they're doing. And all of the above is financed purely by donations. Their financial statements & accounts up to and including 2017 are also available on their website.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    tricky D
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    thomil wrote: »
    Similarly, The Coast Guard could very well find themselves without a helicopter available either, simply because their Sikorsky S92 are primarily Search & Rescue aircraft, not dedicated air ambulances, although they can perform that role.
    This is not uncommon. Often enough, is the Garda helio gets sent out to Howth cliff incidents first despite no winch capability. It assists ground until one of the S92s becomes available. Happened just last weekend.


  • Options
    #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I don’t get the argument against more air ambulances. Quite simply have a medical situation needing urgent hospital care in the remotest areas of Ireland and then dial 999 to be told an ambulance will be with you 45 mins if you are lucky and then a blue light run is 45 mins more to a hospital. I suspect those arguing against additional air ambulances have the luxury of knowing an ambulance will always be with them in less than 10 mins and in hospital in the same again.

    Quite simply while hospitals are being closed or services run down this country needs as many air ambulances as we can get.

    Those being run purely by charitable donations should be supported and encouraged not criticised because of petty red tape being thrown at them.


  • Options
    #14
    Balf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Balf


    thomil wrote: »
    And all of the above is financed purely by donations. Their financial statements & accounts up to and including 2017 are also available on their website.
    https://www.icrr.ie/app/uploads/ICRR-Accounts-2017.pdf

    Their 2017 accounts show they got Government grants totalling nearly €540,000 in 2017.

    And if you look at previous years, you find Government is the source of most of their funding.


Advertisement