Extinction Rebellion Ireland

Jimmy Garlic · 20-04-2019 11:59pm

Daxton Scrawny Plow wrote: »

Cleaning the beach is great community minded stuff. I did a couple of things like that with conservation volunteers ireland when I was young. I guess it would prevent some level of harm to wildlife including sea creatures. But I don't see how it affects greenhouse emissions or global warming.

I hear in the UK at least they want rid of 38million cars, all heating boilers, gas and oil. To be replaced with what? They want meat banned as well. Veganism might be grand for layabout trustifarian crusties who never did a solid days work in their lives most of them, the rest of us won't get by on lentil soup.

RHJ · 21-04-2019 12:05am

I know new taxes are unpopular but I believe they are necessary one-way the government could get more people on board with the idea would be to ring-fence any further carbon tax increases for use on only green projects, for example, expanding Dublin's cycling infrastructure hopefully does something more akin to the Netherlands and also expand and Electrify public transport. One further idea that I would like to see that would lower carbon emissions while employing people is retrofitting old houses and trying to get them as energy efficient as possible.

I just read today that Germany aims to ban the sale of all internal combustion powered vehicles by the year 2030 we should follow suit.

gozunda · 21-04-2019 12:24am

Daxton Scrawny Plow wrote: »

ER Ireland wants a declaration of emergency, zero emissions by 2030 and consideration for poor people. ER UK wants a state of emergency, zero emissions by 2025 and a citizens assembly.

Clear focused demands are good. The yellow jacket movement in France demonstrate why consideration for poor people is probably necessary, though I reckon the motivation for that point might be more idealistic and less pragmatic than that angle.

Apparently the 2025 target is criticized as fanciful. So maybe the 2030 one is more credible.To not be a hypocrite, in the next few years I need to ditch my cars and disconnect my boiler, not fly, not eat goods transported by plane, not eat beef. I guess few goods are transported by plane anyway.

The Yellow Vest protest movement in France initially arose to fight the issue of a governmental increase in fuel taxes, particularly on diesel fuel.

The movement have sought the following concessions amonst others ...

•Announcement that price of Électricité de France blue tariffs would not increase before March 2019

• Cancellation of fuel tax and six-month moratorium on diesel and petrol price changes

• Decrease of fuel and motor taxes

Seem to be going in the opposite direction to 'Extinction Rebellion" tbh ...

Yurt2 · 21-04-2019 12:47am

Kirby wrote: »

Don't worry, you weren't cute. Just ignorant.

You have little idea of my political leanings and even less of an idea of what I would ask a politician seeking my vote. How you could begin to think you have any idea of such is ludicrous.

Only two options, huh? How very black and white of you. How very, "If you're not with me you're against me".

Here's an option 3 for you. Climate change is the second biggest hurdle we will face over the next hundred years as a species and is more important than virtually everything else. However what these "crusties" as you call them are doing......is of absolutely ZERO consequence to this and this so-called protest will achieve nothing. This is, without a doubt, one of the worst ways of going about what they claim they wish to achieve.

Having read that, I'm going to double-down on what I said. You don't give a hoot. Deriding a climate change protest that is asking governments to do more, and then claiming you care about the issue at hand. Pull the other one.

It's not a "so-called protest," it's an actual protest - the text-book definition of one. That's what I think of your so-called post and so-called opinion.

Oh sage of sages, how does one protest effectively? I beseech you to bestow your wisdom upon us ignorant.

Sweetemotion · 21-04-2019 12:51am

RHJ wrote: »

I know new taxes are unpopular but I believe they are necessary one-way the government could get more people on board with the idea would be to ring-fence any further carbon tax increases for use on only green projects, for example, expanding Dublin's cycling infrastructure hopefully does something more akin to the Netherlands and also expand and Electrify public transport. One further idea that I would like to see that would lower carbon emissions while employing people is retrofitting old houses and trying to get them as energy efficient as possible.

I just read today that Germany aims to ban the sale of all internal combustion powered vehicles by the year 2030 we should follow suit.

The taxes you believe are necessary. Would do more damage to the population than anything climate change could ever do.

Austria! · 21-04-2019 12:54am

Given that the solutions to global warming are largely political, it seems obvious that protesting is better than doing nothing.

We've had plenty of naysayers in this thread, but they were so upset a protest could be disruptive or so amused by their funny descriptions of vegans that they forgot to provide a superior alternative.

RHJ · 21-04-2019 12:56am

Sweetemotion wrote: »

The taxes you believe are necessary. Would do more damage to the population than anything climate change could ever do.

If you've ever looked at a map, you will notice we are at the same latitude as parts of Canada the only thing that stops us from having long harsh winter's is the Gulf Stream now imagine what would happen if the vast amounts of ice in Greenland were to melt and weaken the gulf stream.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/opinion/gulf-stream-slowing-down-is-bad-news-for-ireland-1.3476747%3fmode=amp

I assure you the effects on the Irish people would be far worse than any carbon taxes.

Sweetemotion · 21-04-2019 1:05am

RHJ wrote: »

If you've ever looked at a map, you will notice we are at the same latitude as parts of Canada the only thing that stops us from having long harsh winter's is the Gulf Stream now imagine what would happen if the vast amounts of ice in Greenland were to melt and weaken the gulf stream.

I assure you the effects on the Irish people would be far worse than any carbon taxes.

You can imagine all you want and assure me of what ever.

I'm not advocating taking more money from people who already pay enough in taxes to take it either from their heat, food or health care. You are.

gozunda · 21-04-2019 1:10am

Austria! wrote: »

Given that the solutions to global warming are largely political, it seems obvious that protesting is better than doing nothing. We've had plenty of naysayers in this thread, but they were so upset a protest could be disruptive or so amused by their funny descriptions of vegans that they forgot to provide a superior alternative.

Do you seriously believe that individuals have no role to play in the reduction of fossil fuel use or consumption? Is it solely governments who should inflict 'political solutions' on the masses? or is it time for people get up off their collective asses and put their hand where their mouth is?

As for 'naysayers' as you refer to them - there has been plenty of detailed reasons given in the thread why these protests are little more than a load of rubbish. And if you had bothered to read the thread- you will find that just one poster made a reference to 'vegans' (sic).

But hey let's not let anyone else have an opinion if they don't toe the revolutionary line and restrict freedom of expression to those who scream the loudest :rolleyes:

RHJ · 21-04-2019 1:18am

Sweetemotion wrote: »

You can imagine all you want and assure me of what ever.

I'm not advocating taking more money from people who already pay enough in taxes to take it either from their heat, food or health care. You are.

Despite popular opinion Ireland doesn’t have a high tax rate most of the working population don’t pay that much when compared to other countries in Europe in fact one source I have read puts our tax rate as quite low.

“According to figures from the OECD, Ireland, with a tax burden of just 23.6 per cent in 2015, was behind only Mexico (17.4 per cent) and Chile (20.7 per cent), and was far lower than the OECD average (34.3 per cent)”

Source: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/ireland-v-the-rest-of-the-world-do-we-pay-too-much-tax-1.3230432

21-04-2019 1:32am

sk8erboii wrote: »

People under 35: *does anything*

Afterhours: NO THEY CANT DO THIS. CALL THE POLICE

tantwum much?

youve been on quite the rampage this week with school off huh

Yurt2 · 21-04-2019 1:41am

gozunda wrote: »

Do you seriously believe that individuals have no role to play in the reduction of fossil fuel use or consumption? Is it solely governments who should inflict 'political solutions' on the masses? or is it time for people get up off their collective asses and put their hand where their mouth is?

As for 'naysayers' as you refer to them - there has been plenty of detailed reasons given in the thread why these protests are little more than a load of rubbish. And if you had bothered to read the thread- you will find that just one poster made a reference to 'vegans' (sic).

But hey let's not let anyone else have an opinion if they who don't toe the revolutionary line and restrict freedom of expression to those who scream the loudest :rolleyes:

He/she said the solutions are largely political, not wholly. In that he/she is correct.

I've seen next to nothing from those running-down the protests. Most of it is the usual 'trustafarians' / 'lazy left wingers' / 'baton charge them' palaver.

And then we have the likes of yourself feeling sorry for yourself implying that somehow you're having your freedom of speech impinged? Get up the yard.

"I take climate change seriously. I just don't like anything highlighting it, any of the tabled political solutions, and any degree of personal responsibility placed on myself. I have nothing further to add other than I don't like protests."

s7ryf3925pivug · 21-04-2019 1:57am

gozunda wrote: »

The Yellow Vest protest movement in France initially arose to fight the issue of a governmental increase in fuel taxes, particularly on diesel fuel.

The movement have sought the following concessions amonst others ...

•Announcement that price of Électricité de France blue tariffs would not increase before March 2019

• Cancellation of fuel tax and six-month moratorium on diesel and petrol price changes

• Decrease of fuel and motor taxes

Yellow vest protesters have criticised the government for making individuals liable for the bulk of the cost of the carbon tax.

Seem to be going in the opposite direction to 'Extinction Rebellion" tbh ...

Yeah that was my point. You consider poor people to avoid such reflexive anti-green protesters.

s7ryf3925pivug · 21-04-2019 2:04am

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I hear in the UK at least they want rid of 38million cars, all heating boilers, gas and oil. To be replaced with what? They want meat banned as well. Veganism might be grand for layabout trustifarian crusties who never did a solid days work in their lives most of them, the rest of us won't get by on lentil soup.

They've been criticized for not promoting veganism. What I read was those were the steps required to meet the ambitious target of zero emissions by 2025. The Irish movement targets 2030 which seems more realistic.

Boilers can be replaced by heat pumps. The cost of retrofitting houses to be suitable for them can be very high though. ICE cars can be replaced by electric cars and public transport. Lentil soup can be tasty and nutritious and veganism is entirely viable for most people. Air travel would have to be ditched as well.

Sawduck · 21-04-2019 2:09am

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

The protesters aren't going anywhere, they'll be here for as long as it takes, all summer probably.

The millennial generation see this as the civil rights of their era.

In fairness they see everything as the civil rights of their generation

gozunda · 21-04-2019 2:13am

Yurt! wrote: »

He/she said the solutions are largely political, not wholly. In that he/she is correct.I've seen next to nothing from those running-down the protests. Most of it is the usual 'trustafarians' / 'lazy left wingers' / 'baton charge them' palaver.And then we have the likes of yourself feeling sorry for yourself implying that somehow you're having your freedom of speech impinged? Get up the yard.
"I take climate change seriously. I just don't like anything highlighting it, any of the tabled political solutions, and any degree of personal responsibility placed on myself. I have nothing further to add other than I don't like protests."

Less of the rampant inaccuracies addressing the issue discussed where possible would be useful.

Btw it is clear that was referring to the sentiment expressed that - Protesting was "better than doing nothing" type of stupidity.

I see plenty of detail as to the issue at hand but some seem so caught up in accusing others of calling people names etc - they cant be arsed even reading the thread to see what has been said. You managed to post a spectacularly foot in mouth comment on that very topic lol.

Again if you wish to personalise - take it outside. The gist was that anyone not toeing the rebellion ideology is supposed to shut up. Away and fek with that.

And as to the bs quote you included btw - not mine. So you can put it back in that same box of tricks. Thanks all the same.

Before I go heres another easily ascribed quote " you're all calling protestors names wah! I think you're all nasty and I'm not going to play nice Wahh"

gozunda · 21-04-2019 2:16am

Daxton Scrawny Plow wrote: »

Yeah that was my point. You consider poor people to avoid such reflexive anti-green protesters.

I consider who to do what now?

Yurt2 · 21-04-2019 6:23am

[/quote="gozunda;109983994"]Less of the rampant inaccuracies addressing the issue discussed where possible would be useful.

Btw it is clear that was referring to the sentiment expressed by the previous poster that Protesting was "better than doing nothing" stupidity.

[/quote]

On the sliding scale on the potential political utility of protest to generate a momentum to solve a political problem as compared to sneering from the sidelines, I'm afraid your stance is less than useless. Sub-useless, it's meta-useless. You've dropped off the scale of usefulness and into angry middle-aged barstool territory. Nothing will happen with climate policy in this country or any other one without political will. It's not coming from above so it will have to come from below. And, as is obvious, that political pressure is more likely to come from 'useless protestors.'

If you genuinely think that doing nothing is preferable to a nascent protest movement - well, I'd advise checking your own stance for signs of stupidity yourself.

It's a favoured tactic (particularly of the right) to deride political protest. They do it not because it's actually useless, but because it has the potential to achieve it's stated goals. Protest brought American troops home from Vietnam, undermined Communism in Poland, toppled Charles De Gaulle. You can trace a direct line from the Occupy movement to Bernie Sanders (a movement constantly called useless, even though the moral underpinnings of modern capitalism were in crisis at the time).

Sneer on lads, fair enough- just accept that you're more useless than the protestors you claim to be better than.

gozunda · 21-04-2019 8:12am

Yurt wrote:

On the sliding scale on the potential political utility of protest to generate a momentum to solve a political problem as compared to sneering from the sidelines,[

I'm afraid your stance is less than useless. Sub-useless, it's meta-useless. You've dropped off the scale of usefulness and into angry middle-aged barstool territory.
Nothing will happen with climate policy in this country or any other one without political will. It's not coming from above so it will have to come from below. And, as is obvious, that political pressure is more likely to come from 'useless protestors.'

That's truely the funniest thing I've read here in years. And yes sireee we're straight baack with the personalisations again Lol. Jeez could you argue the point just once instead of the smartarse replies and soundbites. Thanks. Unfortunately the rest is hyperbole and pure bull****e.

yurt wrote:

If you genuinely think that doing nothing is preferable to a nascent protest movement - well, I'd advise checking your own stance for signs of stupidity yourself.

Lol and exactly where the fuk do I say that? And yes indeedy here we have it folks - instead of discussion - its getting in the personal style digs again. Man this is some ripe rubbish even for AH.

yurt wrote:

It's a favoured tactic (particularly of the right) to deride political protest. They do it not because it's actually useless, but because it has the potential to achieve it's stated goals. Protest brought American troops home from Vietnam, undermined Communism in Poland, toppled Charles De Gaulle. You can trace a direct line from the Occupy movement to Bernie Sanders (a movement constantly called useless, even though the moral underpinnings of modern capitalism were in crisis at the time).

Ahahahaha that's brilliant. Attempting to dismiss any and all criticism as being of the 'right' and aligning this particular lot of wasters with some of the great socio-political movements of previous generations is risable. As per the meme posted - this lot couldn't start a lawnmower - never mind a 'rebellion' (sic)

I'd suggest taking up some other hobby 'cos whatever you're good at discussion or 'nascent protest' (sic) evidently ain't part of it.

Yurt2 · 21-04-2019 8:41am

gozunda wrote: »

Lol and exactly where the fuk do I say that? And yes indeedy here we have it folks - instead of discussion - its getting in the personal style digs again. Man this is some ripe rubbish even for AH.

Post #137 you said: "Btw it is clear that was referring to the sentiment expressed by the previous poster that Protesting was "better than doing nothing" stupidity."

So yes, that's exactly the inference you were making. You're in knots - you might have to go back to the vegan forum where you spend half your time starting arguments to save some face. Friend of the earth indeed.

Edit: And by the way, it was precisely people like you calling anti-Vietnam war protesters wasters and commies. Face it, you just hate protest, and you can't quite articulate why.

gozunda · 21-04-2019 8:56am

Yurt! wrote: »

Post #137 you said: "Btw it is clear that was referring to the sentiment expressed by the previous poster that Protesting was "better than doing nothing" stupidity."

The previous poster said not me! Understand!!!!
And this is what I said - If you can't understand it - I cant help you.

Do you seriously believe that individuals have no role to play in the reduction of fossil fuel use or consumption? Is it solely governments who should inflict 'political solutions' on the masses? or is it time for people get up off their collective asses and put their hand where their mouth is?

As to the rest - yet more puerile personal digs and whataboutery from our little man on the left lol. If you ever care to read what I've posted- you will see what is discussed there is food production and agriculture - something that is regularly derided by your ilk. But then that's not a surprise is it? You seem to be quoting someone else again btw. Here's one in return

"Wahhhhhhhh!"

Yurt2 · 21-04-2019 9:03am

gozunda wrote: »

The previous poster said not me! Understand!!!!

This is what I said. If you can't understand it - I cant help you.

[Quoute]Do you seriously believe that individuals have no role to play in the reduction of fossil fuel use or consumption? Is it solely governments who should inflict 'political solutions' on the masses? or is it time for people get up off their collective asses and put their hand where their mouth is?

Ahahahshah yet more personal digs and whataboutery from our little man on the left lol. If you ever care to read what I've posted- you will see what is discussed there is food production and agriculture - something that is regularly derided by your ilk. IBut then that's not a surprise is it? You seem to be quoting someone else again btw. He's one in return

"Wahhhhhhhh!"[/QUOTE]

Post #137. My point stands and gets more correct every time you post.

I'm not vegan by the way. Just find it funny you're presenting yourself as some sort of detached observer when you spend half your days trying to get a rise out of vegans.

And yes, you blatantly harbour right-wing views, your posting history gives you away. Not sure why you'd object to that characterization.

gozunda · 21-04-2019 9:16am

Yurt wrote:

Post #137. My point stands and gets more correct every time you post.

Nope - it doesn't. Either you're being deliberatly thick claiming that or I'm really not sure ...

Btw I dont give a proverbial ****e if you eat rabbit droppings or whatever - I couldnt give a fuk one way or the other. If you want to report what many posters are discussing regarding agriculture and food in another forum. THEN DO SO or get the fuk out of kindergarten.

And yes, you blatantly harbour right-wing views, your posting history gives you away. Not sure why you'd object to that characterization.

And let's examine your rabid and frankly disgusting style of postings and posting history as you believe that kinda thing is obviously particularly relevant - shall we?

Or would you like to continue with the puerile and stupid personal digs which appear to be your stock in trade response lol.

"Waaahhhhh" you've lost any kudos you ever had in actually trying to discuss the issue - but then I'm really not surprised at that.

Ls. Could you sort out your quotes - there all over the shop. Thanks.

Yurt2 · 21-04-2019 9:22am

You're foaming at the mouth.

Thanks for your balanced and centerist perspective throughout the thread.

Edit: Post #137

RandomName2 · 21-04-2019 9:23am

For people talking about population levels (and they are right), the single most important aspect of this is birth rate, and the single biggest determining factor in relation to birth rate is female education (you can look it up if you don't believe me).

Any solution to overpopulation which does not address the lack of female education in the third world is not a solution.

For people talking about pollution currently being produced (and they are right), the single most important aspect of this is the pollution produced by China, which dwarfs every other country on Earth (it is more than Russia, United States and India combined).

Any solution to carbon emissions which does not mention China is not a solution.

gozunda · 21-04-2019 9:26am

Yurt! wrote: »

You're foaming at the mouth. Thanks for your balanced and centerist perspective throughout the thread.
Edit: Post #137

Indeed

even more digs from you!

As you appear not to understand - here's my post again lol.

Do you seriously believe that individuals have no role to play in the reduction of fossil fuel use or consumption? Is it solely governments who should inflict 'political solutions' on the masses? or is it time for people get up off their collective asses and put their hand where their mouth is?

Galwayguy35 · 21-04-2019 9:29am

I fail to see how annoying ordinary people trying to get from A to B is going to change anything.

Let them go to the Dail and protest if they want but i'd be well pissed off if a shower of scruffy crusties held me up trying to get home after a days work.

Yurt2 · 21-04-2019 9:34am

gozunda wrote: »

Indeed even more digs from you!

As you appear not to understand - here's my post again lol.

You get digs because you deserve them. You call people wasters and offer up fanny all yourself.

Post 137. You said that the notion of "protesting was better than nothing" was stupidity. (Something that more than resembles an insult to another poster). You can't wriggle out of it.

I responded in kind. I think your attitude is less than useless and I stand by it.

Take a walk in the fresh air for yourself.

gozunda · 21-04-2019 9:46am

Yurt! wrote: »

You get digs because you deserve them. You call people wasters and offer up fanny all yourself. Post 137. You said that the notion of "protesting was better than nothing" was stupidity. (Something that more than resembles an insult to another poster). You can't wriggle out of it.I responded in kind. I think your attitude is less than useless and I stand by it.Take a walk in the fresh air for yourself.

"You deserve them" ahahahahaha. Thanks Mammy!

Look you can give over now - you have spectacularly failed to understand what was said and are now attempting to dig your way out lol! Drop the shovel and walk away before you fall into that hole...

And btw there's a difference in an argument being akin to stupidity and 'someone''being stupid. And referering to a bunch of protestors as wasters remains valid. But then you know that already

As you like bringing up ****e elsewhere - thanks for derailing another thread btw. The Airbnb thread was quite spectacular lol. Did the poster there 'deserve' your digs as well before you got caught for the same ****e?

Over and out.

21-04-2019 9:55am

Students love a cause. Especially in good weather. They are young and innocent of real life and easily swayed by idealism. They will live and learn to make their own minds up.
Others are querying the validity of their case.

“One of the most talked-about programmes of the past week – a primetime documentary on BBC1 – featured two people many seem to regard as living saints.

One was the presenter, Sir David Attenborough, the other Greta Thunberg, the Swedish teenage activist inspiring climate change ‘school strikes’ in several countries, including Britain.

The film’s title was Climate Change: The Facts, and these, Sir David claimed, are now ‘incontrovertible’. The film’s message was so bleak it could have been made by Extinction Rebellion, the eco-anarchist protest group which has brought Central London to a standstill.

No one has done more to convey the marvels of the natural world than Attenborough, and his long career has rightly earned him public acclaim.

Sadly, on this occasion, I believe he has presented an alarmist argument derived from a questionable use of evidence, whose nuances he has ignored.”U

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6943475/What-Attenborough-told-BBC-viewers-orangutan-fighting-digger-truth.html

Extinction Rebellion Ireland

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