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Council tactics re_ leasing

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  • 20-04-2019 8:16am
    #1
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭


    This topic is being dealt with in a general sense on another thread but I just wanted to highlight the reality that local authorities are using these arrangements to dump scum tenants, it has happened to me very recently, the neighbours are almost ready to have a nervous breakdown yet the council couldn't care less.

    My house cost me very little as its in a very bad area though the quietest little enclave of said area, these tenants have house parties every night and have a hefty rap sheet, I have never met them as I only signed over the house last June, only became aware of the problem through one of the neighbours who contacted me, I only know this person from when I was bringing furniture in prior to letting. We exchanged numbers as I thought it useful to know one person nearby, they incorrectly assumed I bought to move in myself but I confess to not correcting them so I had house signed over to the council before ever explaining I myself was not moving in

    I'm paid 10 k gross per year for a house which cost me 68 k and I have no dealings with the tenants, in fact the council are my tenant, I know damn well that if I raise hell with the council about the disturbances, they will find a way to opt out of the lease and leave me with the problem tenants so when I inspect the property for the first time post the commencement of the lease ( hoping to inspect in next week), I will need to have a calm strategy. Will keep this thread posted as to how the situation develops, house is an hour away so once I'm paid its " out of sight - out of mind" but a complacent attitude can set in with such a detached arrangement, I bought this house with cash and it isn't my only property, its in a flood area but had extensive flood relief work carried out since the flood of 2014, o bought it post flood and post refurbishment, sort of saw it as a punt. Nobody however should enter into a long term lease with a valuable house

    To summarise, despite the apparent attractions of a long term lease, the council use the scheme to deal with toxic problem tenants.

    Some people deserve homelessness and government are good for nothing when it comes down to it.


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    #2
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭tigger123


    So, you own the house, have rented it out to the council, the council have rented it out to tenants that are 'driving the neighbours to a nervous breakdown'? Am I right?

    Have you spoken to the Council? How do you know about the tenants behaviour?


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    #3
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,710 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    You said yourself that it's in a bad area: how could they (or you) get good tenants to go in there?


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    #4
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    tigger123 wrote: »
    So, you own the house, have rented it out to the council, the council have rented it out to tenants that are 'driving the neighbours to a nervous breakdown'? Am I right?

    Have you spoken to the Council? How do you know about the tenants behaviour?

    Hi there

    This is a relatively recent discovery for me, under the long term lease scheme, the landlord has no dealings with the people living in the property, I have no right to march up to the property, I didn't select the tenants, that is the role of the council here

    I received all these troubling reports from the one local resident who I have contact with, I made the decision not to approach the council until I view the property but I have asked for an inspection as part of the lease contract, I would have inspected before now but I have been recovering from a personal injury which happened many months ago

    Unless my neighbour is telling lies, I see no reason to feel relaxed about it though as I've said, even the tenants have turned the place upside down, I will need to tread carefully


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    #5
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Hi there

    This is a relatively recent discovery for me, under the long term lease scheme, the landlord has no dealings with the people living in the property, I have no right to march up to the property, I didn't select the tenants, that is the role of the council here

    I received all these troubling reports from the one local resident who I have contact with, I made the decision not to approach the council until I view the property but I have asked for an inspection as part of the lease contract, I would have inspected before now but I have been recovering from a personal injury which happened many months ago

    Unless my neighbour is telling lies, I see no reason to feel relaxed about it though as I've said, even the tenants have turned the place upside down, I will need to tread carefully

    If it was me, the first thing I'd do is report it to the council and start talking to them about what you can do about it.

    If the landlord has no dealings with the property, you've no recourse to the tenants. The only thing you can then do is pass the information on to the Council. And/or ask the neighbour to do the same thing.

    I'm not being smart here, but if you lease a property to the council, there always was the possibility that this kind of thing could happen.


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    #6
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    This topic is being dealt with in a general sense on another thread but I just wanted to highlight the reality that local authorities are using these arrangements to dump scum tenants, it has happened to me very recently, the neighbours are almost ready to have a nervous breakdown yet the council couldn't care less.

    My house cost me very little as its in a very bad area though the quietest little enclave of said area, these tenants have house parties every night and have a hefty rap sheet, I have never met them as I only signed over the house last June, only became aware of the problem through one of the neighbours who contacted me, I only know this person from when I was bringing furniture in prior to letting. We exchanged numbers as I thought it useful to know one person nearby, they incorrectly assumed I bought to move in myself but I confess to not correcting them so I had house signed over to the council before ever explaining I myself was not moving in

    I'm paid 10 k gross per year for a house which cost me 68 k and I have no dealings with the tenants, in fact the council are my tenant, I know damn well that if I raise hell with the council about the disturbances, they will find a way to opt out of the lease and leave me with the problem tenants so when I inspect the property for the first time post the commencement of the lease ( hoping to inspect in next week), I will need to have a calm strategy. Will keep this thread posted as to how the situation develops, house is an hour away so once I'm paid its " out of sight - out of mind" but a complacent attitude can set in with such a detached arrangement, I bought this house with cash and it isn't my only property, its in a flood area but had extensive flood relief work carried out since the flood of 2014, o bought it post flood and post refurbishment, sort of saw it as a punt. Nobody however should enter into a long term lease with a valuable house

    To summarise, despite the apparent attractions of a long term lease, the council use the scheme to deal with toxic problem tenants.

    Some people deserve homelessness and government are good for nothing when it comes down to it.

    Is this a common thing? Genuine question.


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    #7
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    You said yourself that it's in a bad area: how could they (or you) get good tenants to go in there?

    Decent people also live in bad areas, I don't see why people like my neighbours ( who work) should have their protests ignored by the local authority.

    The point of this thread is to highlight what the council are doing with these long term leasing schemes, it's cynical and exploitative


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    #8
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    tigger123 wrote: »
    If it was me, the first thing I'd do is report it to the council and start talking to them about what you can do about it.

    If the landlord has no dealings with the property, you've no recourse to the tenants. The only thing you can then do is pass the information on to the Council. And/or ask the neighbour to do the same thing.

    I'm not being smart here, but if you lease a property to the council, there always was the possibility that this kind of thing could happen.

    There are a lot of people on the housing list, people with anti social behaviour records should not be anywhere near the top, I'll deal with the matter but let it be a warning to others


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    #9
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    First mistake you made was giving your number over. You have given over your house to the council, you should have no involvement at all in the house

    It is up to the council to deal with the tenants and if they are causing a problem for the other residents then they should contact the council and not you

    For all you know the “friendly” neighbour is the pain in the ass, he/she might be getting reported to the council and is using you to try get other tenants threw out

    Are you supposed to visit the property? I didn’t think you done anything with it if you have signed it over

    Also saying the council will pull out and leave you with tenants is illegal and you could sue them for the price of the house. So no idea why you would think that


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    #10
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    tigger123 wrote: »
    Is this a common thing? Genuine question.

    One of the grounds for termination is if the council demands that structural repairs be carried out within twenty eight days, with toxic tenants who decide to drill holes in the wall, you could have a situation where repairs are regularly required, suffice to say that the council would not take the problem tenants with them.


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    #11
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    There are a lot of people on the housing list, people with anti social behaviour records should not be anywhere near the top, I'll deal with the matter but let it be a warning to others

    How are you going to deal with it though? Surely its up to the council to deal with it, no?

    What's the warning about? Are you (justifiably) concerned that the tenants will destroy the place?


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    #12
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Decent people also live in bad areas, I don't see why people like my neighbours ( who work) should have their protests ignored by the local authority.

    The point of this thread is to highlight what the council are doing with these long term leasing schemes, it's cynical and exploitative

    Everyone knows exactly what they are getting when they sign up, you know yourself the ability to get good tenants in a s**t area is hard, you will spend more time trying to manage the complaints that the few quid you make is not worth it

    That’s why people sign over to council, it’s handy money and the council need to fix the dodgy tenants.,..

    As I said the mistake you made was giving your number in the first place, you will be hounded now for the rest of the contract

    If it was me, turn off the number and get a new one


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    #13
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    tigger123 wrote: »
    How are you going to deal with it though? Surely its up to the council to deal with it, no?

    What's the warning about? Are you (justifiably) concerned that the tenants will destroy the place?

    If they destroy it the council fixes it.....he won’t have to pay a penny


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    #14
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    One of the grounds for termination is if the council demands that structural repairs be carried out within twenty eight days, with toxic tenants who decide to drill holes in the wall, you could have a situation where repairs are regularly required, suffice to say that the council would not take the problem tenants with them.

    You're worried the council are just going to bail on the arrangement, and leave you with the tenants then.


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    #15
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    One of the grounds for termination is if the council demands that structural repairs be carried out within twenty eight days, with toxic tenants who decide to drill holes in the wall, you could have a situation where repairs are regularly required, suffice to say that the council would not take the problem tenants with them.

    Have you read the contract?

    Did you document the condition of house before handing over to council?

    If the house is falling down due to an issue not created by tenant then yes you need to repair....roof falling in due to issue which was present before council took over

    If the tenant damages the property then the council fixes......

    Unless you signed something else?


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    #16
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    First mistake you made was giving your number over. You have given over your house to the council, you should have no involvement at all in the house

    It is up to the council to deal with the tenants and if they are causing a problem for the other residents then they should contact the council and not you

    For all you know the “friendly” neighbour is the pain in the ass, he/she might be getting reported to the council and is using you to try get other tenants threw out

    Are you supposed to visit the property? I didn’t think you done anything with it if you have signed it over

    Also saying the council will pull out and leave you with tenants is illegal and you could sue them for the price of the house. So no idea why you would think that

    All I have received is a few texts from the neighbour, I can block them if I want, they don't know where I live, I told this particular neighbour to inform the council about any issues a few months ago, they text me again in the past week to inform me about late night parties since before Xmas and how the council are making token efforts to deal with complaints, that's all I have to go on but I'd trust the word of the neighbours over the council on these matters

    I'll do what I can to try and help the neighbours, good people in troubled areas deserve peace, the core of my point is unaccountable local government


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    #17
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    tigger123 wrote: »
    How are you going to deal with it though? Surely its up to the council to deal with it, no?

    What's the warning about? Are you (justifiably) concerned that the tenants will destroy the place?

    I have not been inside the house since handing it over, I cannot at this point say if the house is being neglected but as the council appear indifferent to the tenants creating disturbance in the area, it's likely they would also be indifferent to the property being trashed, there is no reason to believe council tenants must wreck a property, again I just wish to alert others to the fact that the council are using these arrangements to dump scum tenants

    My own situation will need to be addressed in its own way, I'll keep the thread updated


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    #18
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    All I have received is a few texts from the neighbour, I can block them if I want, they don't know where I live, I told this particular neighbour to inform the council about any issues a few months ago, they text me again in the past week to inform me about late night parties since before Xmas and how the council are making token efforts to deal with complaints, that's all I have to go on but I'd trust the word of the neighbours over the council on these matters

    I'll do what I can to try and help the neighbours, good people in troubled areas deserve peace, the core of my point is unaccountable local government

    How is the government unaccountable? For all you know they are dealing with the issue...you have parts of a story from one side....

    How do you know the neighbour is good? You don’t live in house?

    I don’t get any of your points to be honest.....

    I would suggest you read the contract or get a solicitor to read it and explain it to you, I don’t think you understand what you signed up to which is more concerning.....


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    #19
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Tell the council you are seeking legal advice with regards to terminating the tenancy and the lease scheme arrangement on anti social behavior grounds.


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    #20
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    kceire wrote: »
    Tell the council you are seeking legal advice with regards to terminating the tenancy and the lease scheme arrangement on anti social behavior grounds.

    But if you terminate the contract then your left with a house that is very very hard to rent and you will end up personally dealing with dodgy tenants

    Last thing I would do is terminate with council, that’s a great deal


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    #21
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    I have not been inside the house since handing it over, I cannot at this point say if the house is being neglected but as the council appear indifferent to the tenants creating disturbance in the area, it's likely they would also be indifferent to the property being trashed, there is no reason to believe council tenants must wreck a property, again I just wish to alert others to the fact that the council are using these arrangements to dump scum tenants

    My own situation will need to be addressed in its own way, I'll keep the thread updated

    Let the buyer beware. You rented the property out to the council as you thought (rightly) that it would be easier than renting it out yourself. This was always a possibility.


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    #22
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Can you please stop saying “scum tenants”? It’s a sweeping generalisation and it’s not fair to the many social tenants who are not a problem. You have troublesome or anti-social tenants, but stop extending it to all council tenants.


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    #23
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    dudara wrote: »
    Can you please stop saying “scum tenants”? It’s a sweeping generalisation and it’s not fair to the many social tenants who are not a problem. You have troublesome or anti-social tenants, but stop extending it to all council tenants.

    In fairness he didn't ftar a whole group of people in my opinion.

    He offered to share his real world experience, and not (apparently) anecdotal horror stories.

    I think his post was very valuable.
    There are real terrible tenants out there and on the face of it local authorities could well use this scheme to house the worst of them.


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    #24
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    I’m not disagreeing with the basic content of his post. I dislike the use of the word “sum”. Why not say “anti-social” or “troublesome”? It’s click-bait type language.


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    #25
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    In fairness he didn't ftar a whole group of people in my opinion.

    He offered to share his real world experience, and not (apparently) anecdotal horror stories.

    I think his post was very valuable.
    There are real terrible tenants out there and on the face of it local authorities could well use this scheme to house the worst of them.

    It’s an awful post

    He doesn’t live in area
    Has no information on tenant
    Has admitted he has had limited contact with other residents
    Has no idea about the person that is providing the information
    But still has no problem referring to them with all sorts of names.....


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    #26
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    It’s an awful post

    He doesn’t live in area
    Has no information on tenant
    Has admitted he has had limited contact with other residents
    Has no idea about the person that is providing the information
    But still has no problem referring to them with all sorts of names.....

    It serves to highlight a landlords compete lack of control if he chooses to let to Councils.
    It serves as a warning.

    Certainly confirms my s suspicions about the local authorities.


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    #27
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    It serves to highlight a landlords compete lack of control if he chooses to let to Councils.
    It serves as a warning.

    Certainly confirms my s suspicions about the local authorities.

    You should make yourself aware of that risk tbh. I've never even considered purchasing a BTL property, but even I would know that if you rent it to the council there's an element of risk involved in terms of who's going to get in there.

    I'm still failing to see the issue here. He's renting to the Council, getting paid, and it's their responsibility.


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    #28
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    It serves to highlight a landlords compete lack of control if he chooses to let to Councils.
    It serves as a warning.

    Certainly confirms my s suspicions about the local authorities.

    You sign a contract

    It details everything in it....if you don’t read the contract then nobody fault

    The whole point of these contracts is for people to get rid of properties they don’t want to manage because of the area they are based in....nothing suspicious about it.....

    The lack of control for most people is the best thing as they get paid, no overhead and the council need to keep the property in good conditoon


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    #29
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    In a case like this the neighbours would normally be advised to bring a 3rd party complaint, on the grounds of anti-social behaviour, to the RTB.
    The local authority and the property owner- and jointly notified parties to the case and required to present for adjudication.
    The owner can respond to the RTB advising of the long term lease with the local authority- and applying to have themselves removed from the case (they are not removed as a matter of course- they have to specifically request it- and it has to be justified via their long term lease with the local authority).

    The RTB *is* the agency for the local residents at this point- as the local authority have no vested interest in dealing with the issue- until such time as they their arses handed to them in a sling by another state agency (as has happened in Galway Co. Co., DCC, Fingal and elsewhere- in the last 6 weeks alone).

    If the neighbour contacts the owner again- they should be advised in the first instance to contact the local authority- however, if it continues unresolved- its RTB time.


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    #30
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    But if you terminate the contract then your left with a house that is very very hard to rent and you will end up personally dealing with dodgy tenants

    Last thing I would do is terminate with council, that’s a great deal

    I've no intention of terminating the lease, if the council are out of the picture, I'm left with no rent and a bunch of squatting scumbags, the money is good, even it takes a year's rent at the end of the lease to fix up the place, I'm OK with the return

    Again I want to just illustrate what local authorities are doing in these circumstances, my house was cheap, I would not consider entering into a long term lease with a valuable property


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    #31
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    I've no intention of terminating the lease, if the council are out of the picture, I'm left with no rent and a bunch of squatting scumbags, the money is good, even it takes a year's rent at the end of the lease to fix up the place, I'm OK with the return

    Again I want to just illustrate what local authorities are doing in these circumstances, my house was cheap, I would not consider entering into a long term lease with a valuable property

    Have you read the contract?

    From what you have posted you have not which is fairly shocking.....

    I do not understand why anyone would sign up to an agreement with no idea what they have signed


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