Bike Hate

harringtonp · 18-04-2019 11:44am #1

Even as an avid cyclist you do have to smile

Hurrache · 18-04-2019 11:47am

Nothing changes

Large bottle small glass · 18-04-2019 11:56am

harringtonp wrote: »

Even as an avid cyclist you do have to smile

I see a horse drawn cart on wire spoke wheels, first built for a bicycle or perhaps tricycle.

Prior to that the poor horse would have been pulling a 4 heavy wheeled device with each spoke strong enough to support the wheel load in compression rather the the ingenious suspension wheel with each spoke always in tension

plodder · 18-04-2019 12:08pm

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

I see a horse drawn cart on wire spoke wheels, first built for a bicycle or perhaps tricycle.

Prior to that the poor horse would have been pulling a 4 heavy wheeled device with each spoke strong enough to support the wheel load in compression rather the the ingenious suspension wheel with each spoke always in tension

A horse-drawn quadri-cycle you might say ..

dahat · 18-04-2019 3:36pm

If he had worn a high viz vest he wouldn't have been hit at all...

punisher5112 · 18-04-2019 4:11pm

dahat wrote: »

If he had worn a high viz vest he wouldn't have been hit at all...

No they would have gone round again and made sure to run over the right way.

Utter Consternation · 18-04-2019 4:18pm

Why do people get so bloody worked up over cyclists?? People should just get off their fookin phones, take a few deep breaths and relax the fcuking kacks. Life is too short to be blowing the head gasket over having to drive slowly behind a cyclist for a few short moments.

People need to seriously catch a grip of themselves.

Borderfox · 18-04-2019 5:02pm

I had some horse riding friends post that picture up on facebook so I linked an infographic from the British Horse Society that says one horse was killed each day and 43 riders also killed by drivers. Shut them up quick enough

harringtonp · 18-04-2019 8:52pm

Borderfox wrote: »

I had some horse riding friends post that picture up on facebook

Wonder where it came from ? A cycling mate put it on whatsapp and I grabbed it from there

Gerry · 19-04-2019 12:01am

It's obvious that for a lot of people, they do not regard cyclists as being fully human. The hatred which pours out on every cycling related story shows not only how people feel about cyclists, but how they feel about other people. It's quite depressing really. People want to just live in a bubble interacting with friend or family only, and that's it. I think the hatred of cyclists is just one expression of a larger problem.

Tenzor07 · 19-04-2019 9:44am

Gerry wrote: »

It's obvious that for a lot of people, they do not regard cyclists as being fully human. The hatred which pours out on every cycling related story shows not only how people feel about cyclists, but how they feel about other people. It's quite depressing really. People want to just live in a bubble interacting with friend or family only, and that's it. I think the hatred of cyclists is just one expression of a larger problem.

The main thing here is how the media and the non-cycling public just put all people who cycle a bicycle into one single homogeneous group i.e. "Cyclists" :mad:

"Cyclists" is a term which should be banned.... Mainly because people who cycle are one of the most diverse groups of people you could find, and who don't all meet up once a week as if in one giant club!

AndrewJRenko · 19-04-2019 9:55am

Tenzor07 wrote: »

who don't all meet up once a week as if in one giant club!

Did you not get your invite?

davef1000 · 19-04-2019 10:56am

Tenzor07 wrote: »

and who don't all meet up once a week as if in one giant club!

Lots of us do. Sunday morning, 10am.

SCOOP 64 · 19-04-2019 11:14am

just one thing i don't like about cyclist, why they don't go single file when a car waiting to over take then go back.
know some will do,
i know ",because we don't have too,we as much right on the road as you ,which is true, you should wait and be more patience"
i know it will cut the conversion between the 2 for a few seconds by going single file.
whats for general consensus of this with cyclist?

asteroids over berlin · 19-04-2019 11:17am

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

just one thing i don't like about cyclist, why they don't go single file when a car waiting to over take then go back.
know some will do,
i know ",because we don't have too,we as much right on the road as you ,which is true, you should wait and be more patience"
i know it will cut the conversion between the 2 for a few seconds by going single file.
whats for general consensus of this with cyclist?

big cyclist myself, however riding 2 abreast or more is just taking the piss as well as endangering yourself and a wally motorist determined to pass at all costs with incoming traffic ahead

harringtonp · 19-04-2019 11:18am

When the road is narrow and there is not enough room for a driver to overtake a double line our club tend to single up.

In other cases the thinking often is that the opposite side of the road needs to be clear for a driver to overtake safely and a double line is shorter and easier to pass than a long single line

SCOOP 64 · 19-04-2019 11:23am

asteroids over berlin wrote: »

big cyclist myself, however riding 2 abreast or more is just taking the piss as well as endangering yourself and a wally motorist determined to pass at all costs with incoming traffic ahead

Refreshing post, was half expecting to be slaughtered .

(ps would never try to over take 2 unless i believe there was plenty of room which rarely is)

North of 32 · 19-04-2019 11:25am

asteroids over berlin wrote: »

big cyclist myself, however riding 2 abreast or more is just taking the piss as well as endangering yourself and a wally motorist determined to pass at all costs with incoming traffic ahead

It's important to be considerate to all road users but riding single file in the scenario you're describing would probably be the most dangerous option. It's inviting the driver to pass in the same lane because of oncoming traffic which means coming dangerously close to the cyclists.

It is not the right of cyclists to behave selfishly but neither is it the right of drivers to make progress at their desired speed at all times, especially when it would be unsafe.

is_that_so · 19-04-2019 11:26am

Tenzor07 wrote: »

The main thing here is how the media and the non-cycling public just put all people who cycle a bicycle into one single homogeneous group i.e. "Cyclists" :mad:

"Cyclists" is a term which should be banned.... Mainly because people who cycle are one of the most diverse groups of people you could find, and who don't all meet up once a week as if in one giant club!

A person who cycles is a cyclist just as one who commutes is a commuter. What other term do you have in mind?

asteroids over berlin · 19-04-2019 11:33am

North of 32 wrote: »

asteroids over berlin wrote: »

big cyclist myself, however riding 2 abreast or more is just taking the piss as well as endangering yourself and a wally motorist determined to pass at all costs with incoming traffic ahead

It's important to be considerate to all road users but riding single file in the scenario you're describing would probably be the most dangerous option. It's inviting the driver to pass in the same lane because of oncoming traffic which means coming dangerously close to the cyclists.

It is not the right of cyclists to behave selfishly but neither is it the right of drivers to make progress at their desired speed at all times, especially when it would be unsafe.

i agree but i have seen and personally believe some drivers get pissed off seeing cyclists 2abreast etc, where as single file the motorist is more at ease, of course there are dicks and will attempt a stupid move on narrow roads, however i believe cyclists should drop into single file when a vehicle approaches from behind. Personally i am very aware of this as sadly a close friend died cycling home from work -a large vehicle approaching from behind and then taking a left turn, this happened quite a few years ago now when most folk only had 1 car in the driveway! Stay safe!

Tenzor07 · 19-04-2019 11:44am

is_that_so wrote: »

A person who cycles is a cyclist just as one who commutes is a commuter. What other term do you have in mind?

Human...

Do you call everyone driving a Van a "Vannist?"

is_that_so · 19-04-2019 11:45am

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Human...

Do you call everyone driving a Van a "Vannist?"

Well they drive so they are drivers.

Tenzor07 · 19-04-2019 11:45am

davef1000 wrote: »

Lots of us do. Sunday morning, 10am.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Did you not get your invite?

Which bike do I need?

Gravel, CX, Road, Tri,/Aero XC MTB, Enduro/DH MTB, Ebike, commuter, tricycle?

Tenzor07 · 19-04-2019 11:46am

is_that_so wrote: »

Well they drive so they are drivers.

Gold Star for you...

Duckjob · 19-04-2019 12:04pm

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

just one thing i don't like about cyclist, why they don't go single file when a car waiting to over take then go back.
know some will do,
i know ",because we don't have too,we as much right on the road as you ,which is true, you should wait and be more patience"
i know it will cut the conversion between the 2 for a few seconds by going single file.
whats for general consensus of this with cyclist?

OK, in the following answer I'm not speaking for "my people :pac:", just my own opinion:

I find the whole "single file/double file" is in many cases a complete red herring. The reason I say this is that in many cases when drivers complain about cyclists not in single file it is on roads where the driver cannot pass a single cyclist safely unless the other side of the road is free and they can cross to there to overtake.

When I hear drivers beeping their horns at cyclists on a narrow road where this is the case, I see an incompetent driver who fails to grasp the basics of safe overtaking of slower, more vulnerable road users , because in such cases, single file / double file etc is irrelevent.

Tenzor07 · 19-04-2019 12:06pm

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

just one thing i don't like about cyclist, why they don't go
whats for general consensus of this with cyclist?

Which "cyclist" who was he or she?

You would have to ask all the "Cyclist"

Borderfox · 19-04-2019 1:06pm

If our group is out for a spin we will single out only when its safe to do so, I have had to go back to drivers and explain this to them and they are fine (although there are one or two that wont accept this)

tomasrojo · 19-04-2019 1:28pm

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

(ps would never try to over take 2 unless i believe there was plenty of room which rarely is)

I don't do group cycling, so I have no real insight, but what you say here is the rationale usually given for groups cycling two abreast: it makes the driver wait until there's sufficient room to pass. Plus it allows the passing manoeuvre to be over in half the time.

This is a really well-worn topic of conversation on here.

07Lapierre · 19-04-2019 1:44pm

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

just one thing i don't like about cyclist, why they don't go single file when a car waiting to over take then go back.
know some will do,
i know ",because we don't have too,we as much right on the road as you ,which is true, you should wait and be more patience"
i know it will cut the conversion between the 2 for a few seconds by going single file.
whats for general consensus of this with cyclist?

It depends....
Depends on how many cyclists are in the group
Depends on the road type/conditions
Depends if there is oncoming traffic
Depends on the experience/ inexperience on the motorists

Lots of factors to consider. But if you have theee four or more cyclists in a group, the safest option (for everyone) it to cycle two abreast.

yop · 19-04-2019 2:06pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

It depends....
Depends on how many cyclists are in the group
Depends on the road type/conditions
Depends if there is oncoming traffic
Depends on the experience/ inexperience on the motorists

Lots of factors to consider. But if you have theee four or more cyclists in a group, the safest option (for everyone) it to cycle two abreast.

Agreed and the people who don't understand are people who don't cycle. And when someone does take up cycling they then realize vulnerable they are on the road.

A lot of it is the social media ability to be a faceless warrior who can slate/shoot abuse at people online, when drivers are in their metal boxes they feel the same invincibility.
As we have seen with drivers who have killed cyclists the sentences are light so there is no fear factor.

AndrewJRenko · 19-04-2019 3:11pm

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

just one thing i don't like about cyclist, why they don't go single file when a car waiting to over take then go back.
know some will do,
i know ",because we don't have too,we as much right on the road as you ,which is true, you should wait and be more patience"
i know it will cut the conversion between the 2 for a few seconds by going single file.
whats for general consensus of this with cyclist?

The irony of the lads driving round with four empty seats complaining of others taking up too much space. Do you pull over in heavy urban traffic when a faster cyclist comes up behind? What's the general consensus of this with drivist?

Doc07 · 19-04-2019 3:52pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The irony of the lads driving round with four empty seats complaining of others taking up too much space. Do you pull over in heavy urban traffic when a faster cyclist comes up behind? What's the general consensus of this with drivist?

Would be no harm to emphasize this a bit more when the topic comes up on radio, letters to editor, chat in the pub etc.
The complaints of being held up behind cyclists applies mainly it seems to leisure groups at weekends and therefore the drivers being ‘held up’ are also not going to work so it’s a minor slowing down on way to shops, mass, visiting , sport etc.

On the other hand I am only really ever ‘held up’ by slower drivers on my cycle commute to work which is arguably a much bigger inconvenience.

SCOOP 64 · 19-04-2019 7:18pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The irony of the lads driving round with four empty seats complaining of others taking up too much space. Do you pull over in heavy urban traffic when a faster cyclist comes up behind? What's the general consensus of this with drivist?

If i am traffic always leave enough room on in side, not all car drivers against cyclist, just a point i was making as is it necessary for 2 abreast if a car is waiting to over take, but most reply's on here is most would pull in and then out, which i always acknowledge with a wave of thanks.

but you will get some cyclist if it irritates the driver, all well and good.

AndrewJRenko · 20-04-2019 7:32am

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

If i am traffic always leave enough room on in side, not all car drivers against cyclist, just a point i was making as is it necessary for 2 abreast if a car is waiting to over take, but most reply's on here is most would pull in and then out, which i always acknowledge with a wave of thanks.

but you will get some cyclist if it irritates the driver, all well and good.

So you don't pull over to let faster cyclists pass, but you expect them to pull over for you? That's a bit twisted, isn't it?

You going to have to move out of your lane to pass one cyclist anyway, presuming that you leave safe passing distance, so what does it matter whether they are single file or not? Do you want to have a long narrow obstruction to pass or a short wide obstruction?

SCOOP 64 · 20-04-2019 5:51pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you don't pull over to let faster cyclists pass, but you expect them to pull over for you? That's a bit twisted, isn't it?

You going to have to move out of your lane to pass one cyclist anyway, presuming that you leave safe passing distance, so what does it matter whether they are single file or not? Do you want to have a long narrow obstruction to pass or a short wide obstruction?

Meant if now stopped in traffic and have over taken cyclist earlier i will leave room if the cyclist if catch upon inside, always give cyclist all the room they need and time they need, i did expect abit backlash with my comment but you do come across a bit bitter, id say you are the cyclist that you would gladly sit 2 abreast and make if more difficult to over take , thankfully it seems you are in the minority.

tomasrojo · 20-04-2019 6:10pm

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

id say you are the cyclist that you would gladly sit 2 abreast and make if more difficult to over take , thankfully it seems you are in the minority.

Again, it's not an issue I have any practical experience of, but it's already been pointed out that part of the rationale of two-abreast is to make your manoeuvre take half the time,so it's not to make it more difficult to overtake. It might mean you can't overtake in the same lane, but in general you shouldn't be doing that, unless it's a really wide lane, in which case there's no difficulty with passing to begin with.

Fighting Tao · 20-04-2019 6:27pm

Duckjob · 20-04-2019 9:22pm

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Meant if now stopped in traffic and have over taken cyclist earlier i will leave room if the cyclist if catch upon inside, always give cyclist all the room they need and time they need, i did expect abit backlash with my comment but you do come across a bit bitter, id say you are the cyclist that you would gladly sit 2 abreast and make if more difficult to over take , thankfully it seems you are in the minority.

I can see where Andrew is coming from TBH.

With regard to cyclist positioning, Many motorists pursue a line of questioning which seems rooted in the notion that people on bikes need to "make way" for people in cars in all cases, and the people pursuing such lines of questioning are often tragically ignorant to the safety implications for people on bikes doing this.

Much as I would like to never be "in the way" of motorists, sometimes for my own safety is it necessary to be, counterintuitive though it may seem. I don't enjoy having cars behind me, and don't know any cyclist that does/would, since it's probably the most stressful part of any bike journey.

The motorists that want me in "out of the way" at the edge of the road are ironically the very same ones that necessitate I claim road space for my own safety, since they are nearly always the first ones to disrespect and disregard any notion of a minimum safe passing distance and put my life in danger by passing close and at speed. If I am already at the edge when they do this, I am squeezed in a highly dangerous situation with no space to escape to. At least if I have claimed space and I get a close pass I have some space to mitigate the danger they have created.

In an ideal world, No one group of road users would have to actively work out ways not to be killed on their journeys on the road, but unfortunately, if you try cycling on Irish roads for a couple of months you'll discover that, due to the borderline psychopathic tendencies of a significant minority of drivers, such defensive strategies are unfortunately an absolute necessity.

tomasrojo · 20-04-2019 9:51pm

With reference to the infographic above, unlike the UK, we do have a legal requirement not to cycle more than two abreast.

AndrewJRenko · 21-04-2019 10:23am

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Meant if now stopped in traffic and have over taken cyclist earlier i will leave room if the cyclist if catch upon inside, always give cyclist all the room they need and time they need, i did expect abit backlash with my comment but you do come across a bit bitter, id say you are the cyclist that you would gladly sit 2 abreast and make if more difficult to over take , thankfully it seems you are in the minority.

What does it matter whether you've overtaken the cyclist or not? If you're not pulling over for faster cyclists who come up behind you in traffic, why would you expect cyclists to pull over for you?

This might help you to understand why the cyclists are doing you a favour by staying two abreast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJiixtKuVq8i

SCOOP 64 · 21-04-2019 10:56am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What does it matter whether you've overtaken the cyclist or not? If you're not pulling over for faster cyclists who come up behind you in traffic, why would you expect cyclists to pull over for you?

This might help you to understand why the cyclists are doing you a favour by staying two abreast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJiixtKuVq8i

f..k me, im out of here now, don't know what i was thinking not being a cyclist mysel and making comment on here, thanks for the few who did make some very good comments.

ted1 · 21-04-2019 11:40am

tomasrojo wrote: »

With reference to the infographic above, unlike the UK, we do have a legal requirement not to cycle more than two abreast.

With exceptions for over taking

magicbastarder · 21-04-2019 11:43am

asteroids over berlin wrote: »

i personally believe some drivers get pissed off seeing cyclists 2abreast etc, where as single file the motorist is more at ease

Of course, as a cyclist, my overriding concern is to keep motorists at ease.

magicbastarder · 21-04-2019 11:46am

It's kinda ironic that most motorists who are the type who see no issue in close passing cyclists would probably have a **** fit if someone overtook them (car on car) with the same gap and same speed difference.

flatface · 21-04-2019 11:49am

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

f..k me, im out of here now, don't know what i was thinking not being a cyclist mysel and making comment on here, thanks for the few who did make some very good comments.

I don’t see any posts being rude or aggressive so not sure why you are reacting. You seem to want people to only post in agreement with you.

AndrewJRenko · 21-04-2019 12:24pm

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

f..k me, im out of here now, don't know what i was thinking not being a cyclist mysel and making comment on here, thanks for the few who did make some very good comments.

Ah don't go, you're great craic. I'd really love to hear your reasoning for why cyclists should get out of your way, while you don't return the same courtesy.

Fighting Tao · 21-04-2019 2:12pm

@SCOOP_64. Good article here. http://www.safecyclingireland.org/road-positioning-safety-measure-or-guilty-pleasure/

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