Have we reach peak LGBT nonsense?

eagle eye · 17-04-2019 01:13PM

King Mob wrote:

It's hate speech because he is saying that being gay is wrong and sinful Not homosexual acts, being gay.

His Bible tells him that. It's his faith. As a result it's not hate speech.

King Mob wrote:

Again, would saying that being gay is harmful to a person count as hate speech?

Who said that?

splinter65 · 17-04-2019 01:15PM

King Mob wrote: »

And that if they dont they'll be tortured forever because what they are doing is evil and harmful to themselves and others.

Being gay is not evil or harmful.

It’s your opinion that it’s not evil or harmful.
It’s his opinion that it is evil and harmful.
Who gets to decide who’s opinion is “hate speech”?
Not you, not me, not him.
That’s the big question. What is hate speech, who gets to decide what it is.

17-04-2019 01:15PM

splinter65 wrote: »

To him, gay men going to gay nightclubs to look for other gay men to “fornicate” with are not even trying not to sin.

But here's the thing you are missing.
He said "fornicators" and "homosexuals". Two separate categories.
So even if a gay person doesn't trawl night clubs, he's still going to be tortured forever because they are gay.

17-04-2019 01:18PM

eagle eye wrote: »

His Bible tells him that. It's his faith. As a result it's not hate speech.

Lol no. Something being faith based doesn't exclude it from being hate speech.
That doesn't make sense.

eagle eye wrote: »

Who said that?

I'm trying to get a handle on what you guys thing actually is hate speech.

So please answer the question thanks.

17-04-2019 01:21PM

splinter65 wrote: »

It’s your opinion that it’s not evil or harmful.
It’s his opinion that it is evil and harmful.
Who gets to decide who’s opinion is “hate speech”?
Not you, not me, not him.
That’s the big question. What is hate speech, who gets to decide what it is.

Can he support or show his opinion is true in an objective way?

Does the opinion that "black people are physically suited to be slaves" become not hate speech because it's someone's opinion?
If not, why not?
What makes it hate speech?

Are we getting the point where you guys are arguing that hate speech doesn't exist?

splinter65 · 17-04-2019 01:22PM

King Mob wrote: »

None of this actually addresses my question or my point.
Kinda seems like deflection.

I think that it is an example of hate speech.

What do you think it is?

Again, would saying that being gay is harmful to a person count as hate speech?

I don’t believe there’s any such thing as hate speech. You keep mentioning hate speech.
But because no one has the authority to decide what counts as hate speech, then it just can’t exist.
So saying that being gay is harmful is just a persons opinion, nothing else.
He’s said that as an idolater I’m also going to Hell.
And a whole list of other people.
Am I upset ? No
Am I offended? No
Do I want him to be made to be quiet? No.
Why? Because other people not agreeing with me or not approving of me is part of life.

17-04-2019 01:26PM

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t believe there’s any such thing as hate speech.

Lol ok...
We have gotten to that stage.

splinter65 · 17-04-2019 01:29PM

King Mob wrote: »

But here's the thing you are missing.
He said "fornicators" and "homosexuals". Two separate categories.
So even if a gay person doesn't trawl night clubs, he's still going to be tortured forever because they are gay.

But what does it matter what this guy, or any guy, thinks or says? He says I’m going to Hell because I’m an idolater. What do I care? Not one damn.
In your ideal world what do you think should be done about this guy or anyone else who expresses an opinion you don’t like?

splinter65 · 17-04-2019 01:31PM

King Mob wrote: »

Lol ok...
We have gotten to that stage.

What is hate speech then king mob, and who gets to decide what is and what isn’t, and how?

The Specialist · 17-04-2019 01:32PM

An example of hate speech is calling on people to commit acts of murder against a race/minority just for who they are, I don't see anything resembling that in the comments of this sky fairy believing clown.

Unsavory comments that hurt your feelings are not and never will be hate speech.

splinter65 · 17-04-2019 01:36PM

The Specialist wrote: »

An example of hate speech is calling on people to commit acts of murder against a race/minority just for who they are, I don't see anything resembling that in the comments of this sky fairy believing clown.

Unsavory comments that hurt your feelings are not and never will be hate speech.

That’s incitement to violence which is against the law.
Saying things that might hurt somebodies feelings is being a prick, but being a prick isn’t against the law. Thank God.

eagle eye · 17-04-2019 01:36PM

King Mob wrote:

So please answer the question thanks.

For me hate speech is wishing ill on somebody else.

splinter65 · 17-04-2019 01:39PM

eagle eye wrote: »

For me hate speech is wishing ill on somebody else.

Is it hate speech then if I hope that the man who murdered my child* dies soon roaring in pain?
( * my child didnt die).

cgcsb · 17-04-2019 01:42PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Which does? Folau? He is a religious nut, it's nothing to do with nasty. He believes that all the different categories of people he mentioned are sinners and he is asking them to repent.

So what did he get the sack for, prey?

17-04-2019 01:43PM

splinter65 wrote: »

But what does it matter what this guy, or any guy, thinks or says? He says I’m going to Hell because I’m an idolater. What do I care? Not one damn.
In your ideal world what do you think should be done about this guy or anyone else who expresses an opinion you don’t like?

Nothing.
We should just point out that his opinion, on top of being unsupported and in opposition to evidence, is hateful, stupid and all round awful.

I don't particularly think that people should be forced to employ him in a lucrative high profile position either.

splinter65 · 17-04-2019 01:43PM

cgcsb wrote: »

So what did he get the sack for, prey?

Breaking an agreement he had with his employer. The reason most people get sacked.

17-04-2019 01:45PM

eagle eye wrote: »

For me hate speech is wishing ill on somebody else.

And eternal torture isn't ill?

Does saying that "being gay causes harm to a person and to society" count as hate speech?
What would you class such a statement as? Bigoted? Just wrong?

splinter65 · 17-04-2019 01:48PM

King Mob wrote: »

Nothing.
We should just point out that his opinion, on top of being unsupported and in opposition to evidence, is hateful, stupid and all round awful.

I don't particularly think that people should be forced to employ him in a lucrative high profile position either.

But who is “we” king mob? There’s literally millions of people who agree with this guy. Probably 100s of millions.
Once again you are deciding (we) FOR EVERYONE that his opinion is hateful unsupported etc.
You can’t do that.
You can’t speak for anyone but yourself.
He’s not speaking for anyone but himself.
This is very clear to me.
Anyone who wants to employ him is free to do so too.

The Specialist · 17-04-2019 01:51PM

splinter65 wrote: »

But who is “we” king mob? There’s literally millions of people who agree with this guy. Probably 100s of millions.
Once again you are deciding (we) FOR EVERYONE that his opinion is hateful unsupported etc.
You can’t do that.
You can’t speak for anyone but yourself.
He’s not speaking for anyone but himself.
This is very clear to me.

Absolute nail on the head, and that's the problem with a lot of discourse these days - one person/group decides something is only acceptable THIS WAY, and anyone else outside that group-think is simply an awful person that everyone should shout down. Herd mentality. Humans are individuals, not a hive mind.

17-04-2019 01:55PM

splinter65 wrote: »

But who is “we” king mob? There’s literally millions of people who agree with this guy. Probably 100s of millions.
Once again you are deciding (we) FOR EVERYONE that his opinion is hateful unsupported etc.
You can’t do that.
You can’t speak for anyone but yourself.
He’s not speaking for anyone but himself.
This is very clear to me.
Anyone who wants to employ him is free to do so too.

Again, you just declared that hate speech doesn't exist...

Is this something you get to decide?

sydthebeat · 17-04-2019 01:57PM

The Specialist wrote: »

Absolute nail on the head, and that's the problem with a lot of discourse these days - one person/group decides something is only acceptable THIS WAY, and anyone else outside that group-think is simply an awful person that everyone should shout down. Herd mentality. Humans are individuals, not a hive mind.

And yet facts can exist as irrefutable facts.

When you question the validness of facts you create this "fake news" culture that's permeating society these days.

There is right - think and there is wrong-think. And just because some one proclaims something that is wrong and abhorrent but dresses it up as "their fact" doesn't mean they should be free to do so without consequences.

eagle eye · 17-04-2019 02:07PM

splinter65 wrote:

Is it hate speech then if I hope that the man who murdered my child* dies soon roaring in pain? ( * my child didnt die).

I think in a case like that it's a bit different due to emotional strain.

eagle eye · 17-04-2019 02:11PM

King Mob wrote:

And eternal torture isn't ill?

No, he was just stating his beliefs, he wasn't wishing it on anybody, quite the contrary he was saying he doesn't want it to happen, he is asking people to repent to avoid that fate.

King Mob wrote:

Does saying that "being gay causes harm to a person and to society" count as hate speech? What would you class such a statement as? Bigoted? Just wrong?

Firstly I wouldn't agree with it, I feel I've said that enough times already and this will be the last time.
I don't think it does count as hate speech because it's just a belief. It's not wishing ill on anybody.

sydthebeat · 17-04-2019 02:17PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't think it does count as hate speech because it's just a belief. It's not wishing ill on anybody.

social darwinism was (is) a belief of the nazi party, within which jewish people were viewed as sub human.

do you consider this belief to be hate speech, even though its "just a belief" ?

17-04-2019 02:23PM

eagle eye wrote: »

No, he was just stating his beliefs, he wasn't wishing it on anybody, quite the contrary he was saying he doesn't want it to happen, he is asking people to repent to avoid that fate.

And if they don't repent, they deserve it.
Again, we're back to splitting hairs.

What would you classify this belief as?
Do you think that it should be just allowed without challenge or contradiction?

eagle eye wrote: »

Firstly I wouldn't agree with it, I feel I've said that enough times already and this will be the last time.
I don't think it does count as hate speech because it's just a belief. It's not wishing ill on anybody.

Ok, so if something is a belief, then it's not hate speech.

According to your criteria, if someone believes that "black people are physically suited to be slaves" or that "black people are genetically inferior to white people" these statements are not hate speech. This is because 1. it's opinion and 2. it doesn't wish ill on someone.
Would that be an accurate assessment of your position?

batgoat · 17-04-2019 02:43PM

splinter65 wrote: »

What is hate speech then king mob, and who gets to decide what is and what isn’t, and how?

So white supremacists don't engage in hate speech. Neo Nazis don't engage in it. Antisemitic people don't engage in it... Yep that's as ridiculous as it sounds.

Guy:Incognito · 17-04-2019 02:55PM

eagle eye wrote: »

His Bible tells him that. It's his faith. As a result it's not hate speech.

Nothing is hate speech then as long as you write a book and say that's your bible.

eagle eye · 17-04-2019 02:58PM

sydthebeat wrote:

do you consider this belief to be hate speech, even though its "just a belief" ?
social darwinism was (is) a belief of the nazi party, within which jewish people were viewed as sub human.

It's idiotic just like Folau's beliefs.
We are talking racism when you view a race of people as beneath you.

eagle eye · 17-04-2019 02:59PM

Guy:Incognito wrote:

Nothing is hate speech then as long as you write a book and say that's your bible.

I've already explained what I believe to be hate speech.

eagle eye · 17-04-2019 03:03PM

King Mob wrote:

What would you classify this belief as? Do you think that it should be just allowed without challenge or contradiction?

No conversation is the best way to get rid of thing beliefs.

King Mob wrote:

Ok, so if something is a belief, then it's not hate speech.

As long as it's not wishing I'll on somebody.

King Mob wrote:

According to your criteria, if someone believes that "black people are physically suited to be slaves" or that "black people are genetically inferior to white people" these statements are not hate speech. This is because 1. it's opinion and 2. it doesn't wish ill on someone. Would that be an accurate assessment of your position?

That's racism.

Have we reach peak LGBT nonsense?

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