Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

Hard Knocks · 09-03-2019 04:06PM

memorystick wrote: »

That's my plan. Currently begging lads to come buy my finished heifers. Never again. Going to buy light bullocks and sell as forward stores. One year keep and no meal. Spending near €180 on meal for heifers is not profitable or sustainable.

Keeping stores is break even at best
You might not give meal but you’ll Have to winter them & watch movements
Lots started finishing heifers as they were not making gains at Autumn sales

memorystick · 09-03-2019 04:49PM

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Keeping stores is break even at best
You might not give meal but you’ll Have to winter them & watch movements
Lots started finishing heifers as they were not making gains at Autumn sales

It's more flexible and not as bad as what I'm doing at the moment.

Albert Johnson · 09-03-2019 05:25PM

memorystick wrote: »

It's more flexible and not as bad as what I'm doing at the moment.

The option of either selling as stores or keeping through to finish would add flexibility from year to year depending on the market. My biggest fear with producing solely for the store trade is Tb, getting locked up could mean an expensive and unintended venture into finishing. Also stock type may need to be changed if targeting the store trade, traditional breeds particularly heifers never seem to sell well as stores and need to be kept through to finish to maximize the returns imo. Buying continentals may mean a bigger initial outlay but will usually mean a bigger return as either stores or beef animals.

older by the day · 09-03-2019 07:18PM

I wonder are things that bad, i was laughing with a friend at the Mart yesterday, we were watching the cattle being unloaded. Nice hiluxs and landcruisers, lovely shiny galvanised cow box's. When there was money in cattle all you would see is old crock.s of tractors and carts made of sticks and baler twine, with the animals heads sticking out ???

Reggie. · 09-03-2019 07:31PM

older by the day wrote: »

I wonder are things that bad, i was laughing with a friend at the Mart yesterday, we were watching the cattle being unloaded. Nice hiluxs and landcruisers, lovely shiny galvanised cow box's. When there was money in cattle all you would see is old crock.s of tractors and carts made of sticks and baler twine, with the animals heads sticking out ???

That's cos they used the money of the good prices to buy them new machines.

whelan2 · 09-03-2019 07:33PM

Reggie. wrote: »

That's cos they used the money of the good prices to buy them new machines.

Just because they have new machines doesn't mean they are paid for

Reggie. · 09-03-2019 07:45PM

whelan2 wrote: »

Just because they have new machines doesn't mean they are paid for

Who ya telling

grassroot1 · 09-03-2019 07:51PM

Willfarman wrote:

That place was never anymore that a wealthy mans folly. The man hadnâ€™t much hobbies. Not to far from my part of the world and the place was always a great asset in terms of employment and spin offs for the area but no way has it ever held its own as a enterprise.

Ya better go for a tour tommorow so new shed gone up on the last year.Straw bedded modeled on one in Germany one of Bert's sons is going to run it

Grueller · 09-03-2019 07:54PM

whelan2 wrote: »

Just because they have new machines doesn't mean they are paid for

As a friend of mine said about a new jeep, " If I signed twice I could have got two".

wrangler · 09-03-2019 07:55PM

grassroot1 wrote: »

Ya better go for a tour tommorow so new shed gone up on the last year.Straw bedded modeled on one in Germany one of Bert's sons is going to run it

,

Is that the guy that fed thousand of lambs when he was still in school, they all went to ICM for some reason

Albert Johnson · 09-03-2019 08:52PM

older by the day wrote: »

I wonder are things that bad, i was laughing with a friend at the Mart yesterday, we were watching the cattle being unloaded. Nice hiluxs and landcruisers, lovely shiny galvanised cow box's. When there was money in cattle all you would see is old crock.s of tractors and carts made of sticks and baler twine, with the animals heads sticking out ???

The RSA have put an end to most of those set ups although there's an odd dinosaur here and there. The advent of subsidies and off farm employment have also contributed to the lumps of shiny metal parked in haggard's nationwide. As roads have gotten busier and cattle wilder I don't think too many will lament the tractor trailers and other relics being retired to a nettle trellis.

A lad locally used to draw cattle with a lorry fitted with a converted fibre glass body previously used for furniture removals. By converted I mean he welded the two swinging doors together to make a ramp and cut some holes in the body for ventilation. The structure of the body was largely unchanged and it wasn't uncommon for a beast to enlarge one of the ventilation holes and attempt an escape. When a head would appear in the mirror it was time to plant the boot and the hope the wind caused them to retreat. The same lad was a product of his time but wouldn't last at the haulage game today. He had the body off fitting a gear box one night and got finished just in time for the following days mart. There was no time to bolt the body back on so he left it sitting on the lorry and started collecting stock. About 2 mile out the road from the mart on a hairpin bend the lorry and body parted company, it demolished the ditch and came to rest in the adjoining field. By some miracle the stock were unharmed but it signaled the end of his stint at the haulage.

mayota · 09-03-2019 09:11PM

Albert Johnson wrote: »

The RSA have put an end to most of those set ups although there's an odd dinosaur here and there. The advent of subsidies and off farm employment have also contributed to the lumps of shiny metal parked in haggard's nationwide. As roads have gotten busier and cattle wilder I don't think too many will lament the tractor trailers and other relics being retired to a nettle trellis.

A lad locally used to draw cattle with a lorry fitted with a converted fibre glass body previously used for furniture removals. By converted I mean he welded the two swinging doors together to make a ramp and cut some holes in the body for ventilation. The structure of the body was largely unchanged and it wasn't uncommon for a beast to enlarge one of the ventilation holes and attempt an escape. When a head would appear in the mirror it was time to plant the boot and the hope the wind caused them to retreat. The same lad was a product of his time but wouldn't last at the haulage game today. He had the body off fitting a gear box one night and got finished just in time for the following days mart. There was no time to bolt the body back on so he left it sitting on the lorry and started collecting stock. About 2 mile out the road from the mart on a hairpin bend the lorry and body parted company, it demolished the ditch and came to rest in the adjoining field. By some miracle the stock were unharmed but it signaled the end of his stint at the haulage.

You should write a book Albert. You’ve a great way with words.

Willfarman · 09-03-2019 10:07PM

I really enjoyed that too Albert.

Willfarman · 09-03-2019 10:24PM

grassroot1 wrote: »

Ya better go for a tour tommorow so new shed gone up on the last year.Straw bedded modeled on one in Germany one of Bert's sons is going to run it

He’s been running the show for a few years now. I’m reluctant to post anymore than that say it’s one of the few ways a beef baron billionaire has put a few bob back into the economy! https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/pics-french-built-self-propelled-feeder-lands-in-the-south-east-of-ireland/

wrangler · 09-03-2019 10:39PM

Willfarman wrote: »

He’s been running the show for a few years now. I’m reluctant to post anymore than that say it’s one of the few ways a beef baron billionaire has put a few bob back into the economy! https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/pics-french-built-self-propelled-feeder-lands-in-the-south-east-of-ireland/

Store cattle producers won't be sorry to see his agents around the ring. There'll be no one refusing to sell them cattle I'd say
I've always been happy with ICM and that hasn't changed since LG took it over.
Why deal with someone that you accuse of not treating you right, I would always vote with my feet, walk away

charolais0153 · 10-03-2019 12:19AM

wrangler wrote: »

Store cattle producers won't be sorry to see his agents around the ring. There'll be no one refusing to sell them cattle I'd say
I've always been happy with ICM and that hasn't changed since LG took it over.
Why deal with someone that you accuse of not treating you right, I would always vote with my feet, walk away

Buyer for goodman local to here. Good trade when he is around!
A few years ago it was only aax and hex angus and heifers. Recently it is more continentals than anything.

Sheep breeder · 10-03-2019 09:02AM

grassroot1 wrote: »

Ya better go for a tour tommorow so new shed gone up on the last year.Straw bedded modeled on one in Germany one of Bert's sons is going to run it

Yes some sight and only half built and according to reports the son is twice as clever as the father was in his day,

Bass Reeves · 10-03-2019 09:22AM

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Don’t know where your getting feed lots operate at a loss and the feedlot in Louth or clonee don’t run at a loss. The new being built in Wexford certainly won’t run at a loss if Bert has anything to say about it.

Feedlot and contracted cattle operate at a loss for the processors. These cattle are contracted at 20c/kg+ more that will be paid to farmers that produce at these shortage times. And as well factory's getting these cattle pick up the transport costs to further hide the true costs of these cattle, You only have to look at the Factory return prices when supplies are tight to see the premium being paid to these contracted and factory owned feedlots. When you add in because of there scale they are buying straights and other feeds at 10-20/ ton less than other midsized and large finishers it is easy to see why these lads will not produce U30 month cattle for May and June

MIKEKC · 10-03-2019 09:34AM

whelan2 wrote: »

Just because they have new machines doesn't mean they are paid for

True, but then they cost more with added interest

whelan2 · 10-03-2019 10:44AM

MIKEKC wrote: »

True, but then they cost more with added interest

Think of yer one Pamela flood and her husband not paying a penny on their mortgage for 9 years or something. They had no worry of added interest

Base price · 13-04-2019 04:10AM

I came across this earlier today and I reckon it is only as a result of the pressure from the Beef Plan movement, which imo has been very quite/mute in the last few weeks??

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/industry-reps-to-attend-open-beef-farmer-crisis-meeting/

wrangler · 13-04-2019 06:31AM

Base price wrote: »

I came across this earlier today and I reckon it is only as a result of the pressure from the Beef Plan movement, which imo has been very quite/mute in the last few weeks??

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/industry-reps-to-attend-open-beef-farmer-crisis-meeting/

I doubt it, IFA often run these but it's a pointless effort, I hope MII do turn up, they often said they would before and didn't turn up, We'd end up talking among ourselves.
I might go to this, BPM has some farmers fairly fuelled up now,should be good fun .....maybe they're just keyboard warriors though.
They're like the vegans now, they should leave IFA alone, either support it or f... off ........they're probably not paying membership any way. what they're at is only doing harm

patsy_mccabe · 13-04-2019 10:22AM

IFA
FAI
FIA
IAF
AIF
AFI

6 different ways to juggle the letters IFA. Google them, not one would inspire you.

wrangler · 13-04-2019 10:39AM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

IFA
FAI
FIA
IAF
AIF
AFI

6 different ways to juggle the letters IFA. Google them, not one would inspire you.

They're doing grand,, sheep welfare scheme, tax free income, road deal, subsidy protection, what more could I want

SuperTortoise · 14-04-2019 06:22PM

wrangler wrote: »

They're doing grand,, sheep welfare scheme, tax free income, road deal, subsidy protection, what more could I want

I was at a talk a few weeks ago given by Joe Healy, long story short, he was hoping that he would be able to lobby to protect the subsidy, when you go into negoatiations and the best possible outcome you are hoping for is standing still, you know things are fooked.

alps · 14-04-2019 06:38PM

SuperTortoise wrote: »

I was at a talk a few weeks ago given by Joe Healy, long story short, he was hoping that he would be able to lobby to protect the subsidy, when you go into negoatiations and the best possible outcome you are hoping for is standing still, you know things are fooked.

And what do you think would happen if someone didn't go in and lobby FOR YOU??

wrangler · 14-04-2019 07:07PM

SuperTortoise wrote: »

I was at a talk a few weeks ago given by Joe Healy, long story short, he was hoping that he would be able to lobby to protect the subsidy, when you go into negoatiations and the best possible outcome you are hoping for is standing still, you know things are fooked.

The national subsidy was cut last time as well but nothing like what was proposed, the good times are coming to an end alright as regards subsidies.
However there was the same talk going around before that last CAP reform and it didn't happen so I'd be quietly hopeful even still

wrangler · 16-04-2019 07:09AM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

IFA
FAI
FIA
IAF
AIF
AFI

6 different ways to juggle the letters IFA. Google them, not one would inspire you.

Anyone at the meeting last night, some of the farmers wouldn't inspire you last night either, throwing insults won't solve anything any way.
Cormac Healy was very patient

Robeman · 16-04-2019 10:12AM

Just came accross this forum and have enjoyed reading it. I actually have read the "Plan" of the BPM from cover to cover and have also attended a BPM meeting.

After I read the plan I thought of Larry at his weekly meeting with his senior managere asking the question "has anyone read the Plan of the BPM" One manager speaks up "Yes I have we have absolutely nothing to worry about. If you want a good laugh Larry if you ever get depressed read it. It will also help you understand why you are a billionaire".

At a subsequent meeting Larry asks "have we got anybody to attend one of these meetings to learn more about BPM" Bright spark answers again. "Even less to worry about. They talk about everything except their plan. The head guys waffle on about how tough things are and how everybody (IFA, Dairy farmers, Gov, FF,FG EU, Supermarkets, Processors.........) are mean to Beef Producers. They then waffle on about some mickey mouse technical issues. When issue thrown open to the flooor there are loads of passionate speeches about more mickey mouse issues, how everyone is mean to them etc etc. Then you usually get some County Council Candidates speaking to canvass some votes. There is lots of shouting and roaring especially at farmers who attemp to make an intelligent contribution particularly if they say that the plan is bull****." The good thing for us is that the lunatics are definitely in charge of the asylum."

Joking aside the Plan is the greatest load of bull**** I have ever come accross and is an insult to the word "Plan"

It is easy to understand why. It was put together by a Group of Beef Farmers in Meath who may be the best beef farmers in the country but who obviously know absolutely nothing about Consumers, The Retail trade \ Multiples and the Beef processing Industry and how they all work and behave. They also seem to know little about international makets, how manufacturing industry works and the cost of some of the ideas they blithly put forward and how the world works. I could write a short book about everything that is wrong about their plan.

The most amazing thing about the BPM is that virtually no one including the Media seems to have actually read the Plan. If they had they would be more critical of it.

Whenever one puts together a business Plan the first thing to be considered in Macro Economic Environment i.e what is happening in the big bad world out there that we need to keep in mind as we develop our plan.

As regards the Beef Industry the main item I would consider are.

-Climate Change Industry
-Decreasing consumption of meat particularly red mean in mature 1st world economies \ rise of vegetarianism & Veganism
-Decreasing influence of farming sector as key element of 1st world economies and also decreasing political influence due to decreasing numbers working in industry
-Movement away from home cooking \ self prepared meals to institutional eating (canteens at school \ work) and restaurants \ take out eating.
-Continually increasing regulation
-Less physical work \ \play more sedentary work \ play resulting in less calories needed.
-World population growth (stagnant in 1st world where can afford expensive meat \ growing in 2nd\3rd where meat very often a luxury.

These are virtually all negative there are probably more negatives I have not thought of and maybe some positives but even after racking my brains I cannot come up with one. can anyone come up with some positives or more negatives.

I will write some more on this issue if you are interested in learning how a proper plan is put together and what needs to be considered in the whole chain from field to fork when developing a plan for a particular segment namely Beef Producing sector.

aphextwit · 16-04-2019 11:30AM

"Is there anything to be said for another mass?"

Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

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