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Dr Hulsey WTC7 findings for people who not aware of this new study.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,032 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    The evidence is coming, the whole process will be fully transparent, and it will be revealed in a few years

    Yeah but he claimed earlier he had seen some work and i would lile to see this work so we can make our own minds up on how well the report is going. For some reason he wants to keep it all to himself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    King Mob wrote: »
    Again, your grammar is difficult to decipher.
    Firstly, 9.8 m/s2 is wrong. Secondly, you called it an equation, this is wrong.
    Literally every post you've made where you pretend to understand physics, you've been wrong about something.
    It's very funny in a cringy way.


    No, you can't.
    s2 is not the same as s^2.
    They mean different things.

    You can use a superscript 2, however I don't actually know how to format that on this forum, and really not bothered to learn.

    You are still deflecting.
    Address timber's post.

    You can express M/S with 2 as long as you place over the S symbol, it will not work for me it just places the 2 beside the S. Tried it few times can't get to work Yep the s^2 fine too I posted this, not you.

    To find the freefall (seconds of descent) of the object you have to use an equation.

    It used in an equation G = the value is 9.8 m/s2


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,032 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    You can express M/S with 2 as long as you place over the S symbol, it will not work for me it just places the 2 beside the S. Tried it few times can't get to work Yep the s^2 fine too I posted this, not you.

    To find the freefall (seconds of descent) of the object you have to use an equation.

    It used in an equation G = the value is 9.8 m/s2

    Why are you not replying to my question and posting the evidence i have ask you for?

    At this stage it's looking like you have ied about this so called evidence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    The evidence is coming, the whole process will be fully transparent, and it will be revealed in a few years

    Funny person will you not admit Metabunk lied? Probably be waiting.

    I even posted NIST own words about the collapse. And then you claim the truthers misquoted NIST.

    How about a honest post for change and state were I misquoted NIST about the collapse of building seven and how it began.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,032 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Funny person will you not admit Metabunk lied? Probably be waiting.

    I even posted NIST own words about the collapse. And then you claim the truthers misquoted NIST.

    How about a honest post for change and state were I misquoted NIST about the collapse of building seven and how it began.

    Why are you not replying to my question and posting the evidence i have ask you for?

    At this stage it's looking like you have ied about this so called evidence.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,222 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Funny person will you not admit Metabunk lied? Probably be waiting.

    About what?

    Also Metabunk is a forum, not a person


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    About what?

    Also Metabunk is a forum, not a person

    It's your evidence- debunking Hulsey. You posted the info belonging to Metabunk.

    This is nonsense.
    The study only focuses on one connection. Dr. Hulsey focuses on the connection that NIST identified as a "probable initiation event" in some of its reports, but in fact NIST identified several potential connection failures. This particular connection was not the initiating one in NIST's global collapse models.

    This is so dumb when NIST even said column 79 (girder and steel) failure caused the progressive collapse. I posted the info from NIST website.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,032 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    It's your evidence- debunking Hulsey. You posted the info belonging to Metabunk.

    This is nonsense.
    The study only focuses on one connection. Dr. Hulsey focuses on the connection that NIST identified as a "probable initiation event" in some of its reports, but in fact NIST identified several potential connection failures. This particular connection was not the initiating one in NIST's global collapse models.

    This so dumb when NIST even said column 79 (girder and steel) failure caused the progressive collapse. I posted the info from NIST website.

    Why are you not replying to my question and posting the evidence i have ask you for?

    At this stage it's looking like you have ied about this so called evidence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Why are you not replying to my question and posting the evidence i have ask you for?

    At this stage it's looking like you have ied about this so called evidence.

    I have already his presentations are on video, and I posted some of them. He shows some of the images belonging to them on video. You have to watch it and listen to his words and hear what he's found already.

    Again for you guys it better to wait for the full report. Partial evidence is not going to convince you guys.

    For Skeptics they want mainstream engineer groups peer reviewing it. That's ok and I believe that is the right way to do it. I have seen enough already to be convinced.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,032 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    I have already his presentations are on video, and I posted some of them. He shows some of the images belonging to them on video. You have to watch it and listen to his words and hear what he's found already.

    Again for you guys it better to wait for the full report. Partial evidence is not going to convince you guys.

    For Skeptics they want mainstream engineer groups peer reviewing it. That's ok and I believe that is the right way to do it. I have seen enough already to be convinced.

    You said
    I have seen some of the Abaqus modelling by Hulsey already 

    Please link to this as i have searched your posts and not seen it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,222 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It's your evidence- debunking Hulsey. You posted the info belonging to Metabunk.

    This is nonsense.
    The study only focuses on one connection. Dr. Hulsey focuses on the connection that NIST identified as a "probable initiation event" in some of its reports, but in fact NIST identified several potential connection failures. This particular connection was not the initiating one in NIST's global collapse models.

    This is so dumb when NIST even said column 79 (girder and steel) failure caused the progressive collapse. I posted the info from NIST website.

    It's not my evidence, it's a post from Metabunk

    Feel free to address the points, I'll separate and highlight each
    • The study is unfinished. Nothing has been published other than Dr. Hulsey giving a presentation on YouTube, and a pdf file of the slides for that presentation.
    • The study is largely not new. While there is some new material, the bulk of the slides were used by Dr. Hulsey nearly a year ago, in October 2016. Most importantly the "UAF conclusions" slide is totally unchanged.
    • The study only focuses on one connection. Dr. Hulsey focuses on the connection that NIST identified as a "probable initiation event" in some of its reports, but in fact NIST identified several potential connection failures. This particular connection was not the initiating one in NIST's global collapse models.
    • The study makes incorrect displacement comparisons. In both 2016 and 2017 Dr. Hulsey made much of a difference in the displacement at column 79 (5.5" west vs. 2" east). But he appears to be comparing the wrong values — global instead of local displacements. https://www.metabunk.org/posts/210992/
    • The study makes incorrect temperature related buckling comparisons. Dr. Hulsey claims (slide 82) his study shows col 79 did not buckle due to temperature. He lists this as a point of comparison with NIST. However NIST explicitly makes the exact same observation. https://www.metabunk.org/posts/211186/
    • The study does not model fire progression. Dr. Hulsey only used one static temperature distribution, where the actual fires moved around heating unevenly.
    • The study mischaracterizes NIST's modelling of the exterior. Dr. Hulsey claims the exterior columns were fixed when they were not. https://www.metabunk.org/posts/210990/
    • The study mischaracterizes NIST connection modeling in the LS-DYNA model. Dr. Hulsey claims that volumes of the full-building LS-DYNA model did not have connections modeled, but his evidence for this is a misrepresentation of a different model, the ANSYS model. https://www.metabunk.org/posts/210990/
    • The study was not open. At the start of the study we were told "WTC 7 Evaluation is a completely open and transparent investigation into the cause of World Trade Center Building 7's collapse. Every aspect of the scientific process will be posted here and on the university's website so that the public can follow its progress." The last such release was in 2015. Nothing has been released since then except videos of Dr. Hulsey giving versions of this slideshow.
    • The study neglects unknowns. Impact damage from falling WTC1 debris, the actual fire spread and temperatures, the state of the insulation at every spot, and differences between drawings and constructions are all factors that are unknown, and make it impossible make a determination of the exact cause of the collapse.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    You said



    Please link to this as i have searched your posts and not seen it.

    Don't be lazy I posted video numerous times with Dr Hulsey speaking about his study. You guys don't watch them as you have decided what true.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    It's not my evidence, it's a post from Metabunk

    Feel free to address the points, I'll separate and highlight each
    • The study is unfinished. Nothing has been published other than Dr. Hulsey giving a presentation on YouTube, and a pdf file of the slides for that presentation.
    • The study is largely not new. While there is some new material, the bulk of the slides were used by Dr. Hulsey nearly a year ago, in October 2016. Most importantly the "UAF conclusions" slide is totally unchanged.
    • The study only focuses on one connection. Dr. Hulsey focuses on the connection that NIST identified as a "probable initiation event" in some of its reports, but in fact NIST identified several potential connection failures. This particular connection was not the initiating one in NIST's global collapse models.
    • The study makes incorrect displacement comparisons. In both 2016 and 2017 Dr. Hulsey made much of a difference in the displacement at column 79 (5.5" west vs. 2" east). But he appears to be comparing the wrong values — global instead of local displacements. https://www.metabunk.org/posts/210992/
    • The study makes incorrect temperature related buckling comparisons. Dr. Hulsey claims (slide 82) his study shows col 79 did not buckle due to temperature. He lists this as a point of comparison with NIST. However NIST explicitly makes the exact same observation. https://www.metabunk.org/posts/211186/
    • The study does not model fire progression. Dr. Hulsey only used one static temperature distribution, where the actual fires moved around heating unevenly.
    • The study mischaracterizes NIST's modelling of the exterior. Dr. Hulsey claims the exterior columns were fixed when they were not. https://www.metabunk.org/posts/210990/
    • The study mischaracterizes NIST connection modeling in the LS-DYNA model. Dr. Hulsey claims that volumes of the full-building LS-DYNA model did not have connections modeled, but his evidence for this is a misrepresentation of a different model, the ANSYS model. https://www.metabunk.org/posts/210990/
    • The study was not open. At the start of the study we were told "WTC 7 Evaluation is a completely open and transparent investigation into the cause of World Trade Center Building 7's collapse. Every aspect of the scientific process will be posted here and on the university's website so that the public can follow its progress." The last such release was in 2015. Nothing has been released since then except videos of Dr. Hulsey giving versions of this slideshow.
    • The study neglects unknowns. Impact damage from falling WTC1 debris, the actual fire spread and temperatures, the state of the insulation at every spot, and differences between drawings and constructions are all factors that are unknown, and make it impossible make a determination of the exact cause of the collapse.

    It's evidence you posted to discredit Hulsey.

    Why would I bother truly? They are denying the failure at column 79 started the collapse :confused: If they can't even get that right, then the rest of it not worth looking at in my opinion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe i post it for you again.

    5. How did the fires cause WTC 7 to collapse?[/B

    I will have to add in a few points for you to get it.

    The heat from the uncontrolled fires caused steel floor beams and girders to thermally expand on (floor 13 at Column 79 added in) leading to a chain of events that caused a key structural column to fail. The failure of this structural column (Column 79 added in) then initiated a fire-induced progressive collapse of the entire building.

    According to the report's probable collapse sequence, heat from the uncontrolled fires caused thermal expansion of the steel beams on the lower floors of the east side of WTC 7 damaging the floor framing on multiple floors.

    This part is crucial.
    Eventually, a girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to a critical column, Column 79, that provided support for the long floor spans on the east side of the building (see Diagram 1). The displaced girder and other local fire-induced damage caused Floor 13 to collapse, beginning a cascade of floor failures down to the 5th floor. Many of these floors had already been at least partially weakened by the fires in the vicinity of Column 79. This collapse of floors left Column 79 insufficiently supported in the east-west direction over nine stories.
    https://www.nist.gov/topics/disaster-failure-studies/faqs-nist-wtc-7-investigation

    That girder slipping of its seat at column 79 started the chain reaction of collapsing floors according to NIST. Metabunk claiming that was not the trigger, but several other failures they are lying.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,032 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Don't be lazy I posted video numerous times with Dr Hulsey speaking about his study. You guys don't watch them as you have decided what true.

    So you have seen a power point presentation? Shiw us the modelling thay you claim to have seen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,222 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It's evidence you posted to discredit Hulsey.

    Why would I bother truly? They are denying the failure at column 79 started the collapse :confused: If they can't even get that right, then the rest of it not worth looking at in my opinion.

    Almost sounds like you're claiming that because you disagree with one point, you can dismiss them all


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Again, this is a thread about the Hulsey study.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Almost sounds like you're claiming that because you disagree with one point, you can dismiss them all

    Read the title of the question.

    5. How did the fires cause WTC 7 to collapse?

    This is why according to NIST. Why would Hulsey not look at this connection failure when NIST even said the failure began there and this was caused progressive collapse. They do not claim a column collapsed on any other floor ( floor 13 was the point of initiation for collapse)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,032 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Read the title of the question.

    5. How did the fires cause WTC 7 to collapse?

    This is why according to NIST. Why would Hulsey not look at this connection failure when NIST even said the failure began there and this was caused progressive collapse. They do not claim a column collapsed on any other floor ( floor 13 was the point of initiation for collapse)

    You're a fraud and a liar.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    You're a fraud and a liar.

    Really this on NIST website.

    Question 5
    https://www.nist.gov/topics/disaster-failure-studies/faqs-nist-wtc-7-investigation


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Diagram 1—Typical WTC 7 floor showing locations of columns (numbered). The buckling of Column 79 was the initiating event that led to the collapse of WTC 7. Skeptics ignore this on their own page, clear as day what NIST claims are.

    The buckling resulted from fire-induced damage to floors around column 79, failure of the girder between Columns 79 and 44, and cascading floor failures. (Credit: NIST) This long girder positioned between 79 and 44, and only column 79 failed and this began the collapse according to NIST.


  • Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cheerful, the passage you are quoting uses complex scientific ideas, difficult math and specific grammar.
    You have shown yourself to be wholey inadequately quipped in all of those things.
    You are simply unable to understand what you are talking about.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 43 Censored11


    Another 'Cheerful Spring' vs 'King Mob' thread..
    Can you guys just get a room already....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,222 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Read the title of the question.

    It's pretty straightforward

    1. Again, I didn't write that post on Metabunk, it's a collection of separate issues highlighted regarding Hulsey's preliminary findings

    2. Simple question: if multiple separate points are raised in anything, do you think it's possible to dismiss them all by only giving your opinion on one of them?

    If yes, just say yes


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    It's pretty straightforward

    1. Again, I didn't write that post on Metabunk, it's a collection of separate issues highlighted regarding Hulsey's preliminary findings

    2. Simple question: if multiple separate points are raised in anything, do you think it's possible to dismiss them all by only giving your opinion on one of them?

    If yes, just say yes

    This statement is wrong.
    The study only focuses on one connection. Dr. Hulsey focuses on the connection that NIST identified as a "probable initiation event" in some of its reports, but in fact NIST identified several potential connection failures. This particular connection was not the initiating one in NIST's global collapse models.

    They are claiming column 79 was not the initiating failure, bull****. They even said it not the initiating failure in NIST global collapse models., bull**** again.

    Why are they misrepresenting the NIST study? Can you explain it?

    From NIST own website. Column 79- 44- the steel beams and girders failed and column 79 buckled according to NIST. Metabunk claiming there were several initiation failures before this?

    NIST words, not mine.
    Diagram 1—Typical WTC 7 floor showing locations of columns (numbered). The buckling of Column 79 was the initiating event that led to the collapse of WTC 7. The buckling resulted from fire-induced damage to floors around column 79, failure of the girder between Columns 79 and 44, and cascading floor failures. (Credit: NIST)

    Yes, they raised multiple objections to the Hulsey study, but if they lie about where the collapse began, I don't see any point looking into further. Unless you can give me a valid explanation for why they lied.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,222 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    This statement is wrong.

    It's your personal opinion that one particular point is wrong

    You aren't addressing the other points
    The study only focuses on one connection. Dr. Hulsey focuses on the connection that NIST identified as a "probable initiation event" in some of its reports, but in fact NIST identified several potential connection failures. This particular connection was not the initiating one in NIST's global collapse models.

    They are claiming column 79 was not the initiating failure, bull****. They even said it not the initiating failure in NIST global collapse models., bull**** again.

    Why are they misrepresenting the NIST study? Can you explain it?

    Calm down, it's explained in the one page thread
    From NIST own website. Column 79- 44- the steel beams and girders failed and column 79 buckled according to NIST. Metabunk claiming there were several initiation failures before this?

    Probable initiation
    NIST words, not mine.

    Yup, under probable.

    You haven't answered the below question

    Simple question: if multiple separate points are raised in anything, do you think it's possible to dismiss them all by only giving your opinion on one of them?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    It's your personal opinion that one particular point is wrong

    You aren't addressing the other points



    Calm down, it's explained in the one page thread



    Probable initiation



    Yup, under probable.

    You haven't answered the below question

    Simple question: if multiple separate points are raised in anything, do you think it's possible to dismiss them all by only giving your opinion on one of them?

    It, not my personal opinion. I posted what NIST said about the collapse of the building and where it started.

    Believe Metabunk rantings and ravings if you like.

    Yes you can dismiss their separate points if they make an error as big as this one.

    Metabunk is claiming column 79 was not the initiation point in NIST global collapse models. Its pure fantasy to deny that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe NIST has only one theory. Are you saying their several collapse theories what are they?

    Global models- is progressive collapse from beginning to end. Starting at column 79.

    Local displacement model. is just a model of connections failures at one point. This is still column 79. The steel beams and girders on floor 13 are where NIST claimed they thermally expanded and failed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Donald Trump was a truther on 9/11. He even said on TV there were bombs in the building. I wonder if he still thinks that today? A lot of people in the media and personalities on the day were not convinced by the plane- fire collapse theory. Watch at 5 minutes.




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  • Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Lol every time you get backed into a corner you do this thing where you make definite declarations of truth, then throw out some kind of nonsense tangent to try and change the subject because you know you've been caught out.

    Happens all the time.

    have you given up on Hulsey's fraudulent paper now?


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