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Advice needed for new Investor on how todeal with Price Drop.

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  • 11-04-2019 12:12pm
    #1
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,757 ✭✭✭


    I have 13 coins in Portfolio with 10 in the red because of last nights/todays continuing price drop. Theyve dropped 10% atm.

    Should I convert these coins into Tether or other Stablecoin or set stop loss orders in case they drop to -20%

    Coins are:
    Bitcoin
    Ethereum
    Binance
    Neo
    Iota
    Nano
    Xrp
    Cardano
    Eos
    Stellar
    Sky
    Bcash
    Bitcoin Bsv

    Thanks for any advice offered.


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  • Options
    #2
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,466 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    stockshares wrote: »
    I have 13 coins in Portfolio with 10 in the red because of last nights/todays continuing price drop. Theyve dropped 10% atm.

    Should I convert these coins into Tether or other Stablecoin or set stop loss orders in case they drop to -20%

    Coins are:
    Bitcoin
    Ethereum
    Binance
    Neo
    Iota
    Nano
    Xrp
    Cardano
    Eos
    Stellar
    Sky
    Bcash
    Bitcoin Bsv

    Thanks for any advice offered.

    If 10% drop in any cash you have invested in crypto induces a kneejerk how to mitigate or cash out response.
    Find a different investment.

    On many coins it is very much a case of DYOR and either flip at a set profit.
    Or better yet, use the coins.
    If you can use them, their value versus fiat becomes less of an issue.

    On the main coins...
    HODL!
    The volatility will be worrying and while past performance should never be an indication of future.
    Look at the crypto space over the last 12 months.
    Consolidation followed by cautious growth on the main coins and the ICO fever has dissapitated.

    All these questions have been dealt with ad nauseam on this and every other sub forum dealing with crypto.
    The advice offered is usually sell or hold.

    Take a look at some 3 and 5 yr charts, drill down to drop dates and search your preferred forum for posts on those dates and take whichever flavour of advice you prefer.


  • Options
    #3
    grindle
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    Like banie01 says, learn to cope with the drop or jump ship altogether. We've seen much rougher days than this, you could easily see you're capital halving or more.
    Start thinking in terms of accruing the cryptos you're most bullish on long-term, if you solidify a fiat loss while gaining crypto that's a good thing (if you believe those cryptos will rise again), which leads me to:

    Bitcoin SV? Really? People are sketchy enough about Bitcoin Cash, BSV is helmed by a true megalomaniacal fraudster.


  • Options
    #4
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,757 ✭✭✭stockshares


    banie01 wrote: »
    If 10% drop in any cash you have invested in crypto induces a kneejerk how to mitigate or cash out response.
    Find a different investment.

    On many coins it is very much a case of DYOR and either flip at a set profit.
    Or better yet, use the coins.
    If you can use them, their value versus fiat becomes less of an issue.

    On the main coins...
    HODL!
    The volatility will be worrying and while past performance should never be an indication of future.
    Look at the crypto space over the last 12 months.
    Consolidation followed by cautious growth on the main coins and the ICO fever has dissapitated.

    All these questions have been dealt with ad nauseam on this and every other sub forum dealing with crypto.
    The advice offered is usually sell or hold.

    Take a look at some 3 and 5 yr charts, drill down to drop dates and search your preferred forum for posts on those dates and take whichever flavour of advice you prefer.

    Thanks very much for the advice.
    I want to hold the coins but was concerned when so many had dropped at the same time.

    I realise coins are volatile but didnt think all would drop together. Its probably that so many are linked with Ethereum.

    Regarding Stablecoins: Should I add them to the Portfolio and if so how would I use them correctly.
    I know they are handy to purchase alt coins instead of using Fiat but other than that I dont know how to use them to protect the Portfolio.


  • Options
    #5
    grindle
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    stockshares wrote: »
    I realise coins are volatile but didnt think all would drop together. Its probably that so many are linked with Ethereum.

    Regarding Stablecoins: Should I add them to the Portfolio and if so how would I use them correctly.
    I know they are handy to purchase alt coins instead of using Fiat but other than that I dont know how to use them to protect the Portfolio.

    It's because they're linked to Bitcoin unfortunately, I wish Ethereum had that kind of sway! If Bitcoin shifts up or down there's an exaggerated effect on all others. Bitcoin's the main one being traded for dollars up and down, alts are generally used to buy more Bitcoin whatever price it may be at.

    The only way to use stablecoins is if you think the cryptos you have are overbought, then shift to stablecoin and wait for the pullback you think might happen, or if the coins are dropping hard like they were late last night shift to stablecoin and set a buy wherever you think the price might head to.


  • Options
    #6
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,757 ✭✭✭stockshares


    grindle wrote: »
    Like banie01 says, learn to cope with the drop or jump ship altogether. We've seen much rougher days than this, you could easily see you're capital halving or more.
    Start thinking in terms of accruing the cryptos you're most bullish on long-term, if you solidify a fiat loss while gaining crypto that's a good thing (if you believe those cryptos will rise again), which leads me to:

    Bitcoin SV? Really? People are sketchy enough about Bitcoin Cash, BSV is helmed by a true megalomaniacal fraudster.

    I received Bsv free after the fork so held it out of curiosity. I bough Bcash last Feb cos it was an easy first entry at the time and it plummetted.


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    #7
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,757 ✭✭✭stockshares


    grindle wrote: »
    It's because they're linked to Bitcoin unfortunately, I wish Ethereum had that kind of sway! If Bitcoin shifts up or down there's an exaggerated effect on all others. Bitcoin's the main one being traded for dollars up and down, alts are generally used to buy more Bitcoin whatever price it may be at.

    The only way to use stablecoins is if you think the cryptos you have are overbought, then shift to stablecoin and wait for the pullback you think might happen, or if the coins are dropping hard like they were late last night shift to stablecoin and set a buy wherever you think the price might head to.

    I thought that because Eth is used to buy many Alt coins that when its price dropped it would affect the Alts.

    Thanks for the advice with using Stablecoins. At what point would you yourself have become worried with the dip. What is considered a real warning sign that prices could collapse completely.


  • Options
    #8
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,466 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    This isn't even worthy of being called a dip tbh.
    It really is par for the course in crypto.
    I think the Highest I've bought BTC for example was in and about 10k...
    Granted it ran up to 20k, but looking at the prices recently I could have bought 300% more for the same price.

    The irrationallity of the crypto market makes the usual TA and trending strategies nearly worthless.
    The amount of people including I, who have been caught out trying to catch the knife is staggering!

    Buy low and sell high sounds simple, doing it with crypto is quite hard!

    A year and a half ago, any idiot could make paper profit in the crazy bull.
    The constant harping on of people hoping for a bull to return is leading to some money returning to the markets, but as a speculative asset it is not for the weak hearted or handed.


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    #9
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,757 ✭✭✭stockshares


    banie01 wrote: »
    This isn't even worthy of being called a dip tbh.
    It really is par for the course in crypto.
    I think the Highest I've bought BTC for example was in and about 10k...
    Granted it ran up to 20k, but looking at the prices recently I could have bought 300% more for the same price.

    The irrationallity of the crypto market makes the usual TA and trending strategies nearly worthless.
    The amount of people including I, who have been caught out trying to catch the knife is staggering!

    Buy low and sell high sounds simple, doing it with crypto is quite hard!

    A year and a half ago, any idiot could make paper profit in the crazy bull.
    The constant harping on of people hoping for a bull to return is leading to some money returning to the markets, but as a speculative asset it is not for the weak hearted or handed.

    What actually happened in Trading yesterday that caused the prices to drop.

    I placed a limit order for Eth yesterday at 1pm at 157.50 and at 6pm it hadnt filled, prices rose steadily throughout that time. Prices rose to 161 and I eventually bought at 160.8. There was a lot of volume at that ime on Binance

    Then checked prices last night and it was dropping at some rate.


  • Options
    #10
    grindle
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    stockshares wrote: »
    I received Bsv free after the fork so held it out of curiosity.

    Ah okay, thought it was a recent purchase bought based on some merits which don't exist.
    stockshares wrote: »
    I thought that because Eth is used to buy many Alt coins that when its price dropped it would affect the Alts.

    Thanks for the advice with using Stablecoins. At what point would you yourself have become worried with the dip. What is considered a real warning sign that prices could collapse completely.

    BTC still rules the roost. It's being bought and sold for USD & whenever there's a huge movement in either direction it causes all of the bots trading the alts paired against both BTC and USD to go haywire. Less liquidity in those markets means more slippage or bots arbitraging upwards too much if set too sloppily. ETH's price against alts will affect slippage against other pairings in different ways too but liquidity is much lower so it's negligible, especially in crypto terms.

    Worried's probably not the right term as I'm in long-term but I figured the dip was very "real" and likely to go on for a while when ETH went below $320. The buy walls around there were vanishing in the days leading up to it, everybody crapping themselves.

    Warning sign that something bad may happen? Too much bullish sentiment. People freaking out on forums in a positive way, talking about ETH hitting $10k by Xmas. Too many long positions (often with crazy margin leverage) on Bitmex for BTC or ETH is basically asking for a drop as people with millions at their disposal can bet the other way and force liquidations if they're crypto-rich and dump across a few exchanges.
    Much the same with the spikes - price keeps going down, an unbalanced amount of people think they're being smart by betting it'll go down further, somebody takes a huge long position and destroys those shorters (again, many unwisely gambling with huge margin-leveraged positons, hoping to multiply their gains) by gobbling up a bit of bitcoin.
    The last spike - caused by $100m gobbling up BTC sell walls - caused $400m-$500m of short positions to close. Not that all of those shorters funds went to that one buyer of course, plenty of other long buyers. But that buyer got to ride the wave of FOMO that hits everywhere while they watch the long positions grow, then they get to take a huge shít on everyone by shorting it.

    Much money to be made for the Bitmex gamblers, much money to be lost too.


  • Options
    #11
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,757 ✭✭✭stockshares


    uhh
    grindle wrote: »
    Ah okay, thought it was a recent purchase bought based on some merits which don't exist.



    BTC still rules the roost. It's being bought and sold for USD & whenever there's a huge movement in either direction it causes all of the bots trading the alts paired against both BTC and USD to go haywire. Less liquidity in those markets means more slippage or bots arbitraging upwards too much if set too sloppily. ETH's price against alts will affect slippage against other pairings in different ways too but liquidity is much lower so it's negligible, especially in crypto terms.

    Worried's probably not the right term as I'm in long-term but I figured the dip was very "real" and likely to go on for a while when ETH went below $320. The buy walls around there were vanishing in the days leading up to it, everybody crapping themselves.

    Warning sign that something bad may happen? Too much bullish sentiment. People freaking out on forums in a positive way, talking about ETH hitting $10k by Xmas. Too many long positions (often with crazy margin leverage) on Bitmex for BTC or ETH is basically asking for a drop as people with millions at their disposal can bet the other way and force liquidations if they're crypto-rich and dump across a few exchanges.
    Much the same with the spikes - price keeps going down, an unbalanced amount of people think they're being smart by betting it'll go down further, somebody takes a huge long position and destroys those shorters (again, many unwisely gambling with huge margin-leveraged positons, hoping to multiply their gains) by gobbling up a bit of bitcoin.
    The last spike - caused by $100m gobbling up BTC sell walls - caused $400m-$500m of short positions to close. Not that all of those shorters funds went to that one buyer of course, plenty of other long buyers. But that buyer got to ride the wave of FOMO that hits everywhere while they watch the long positions grow, then they get to take a huge shít on everyone by shorting it.

    Much money to be made for the Bitmex gamblers, much money to be lost too.

    Where is the info about the 100million buying up the Bitcoin Sell orders. I would like to find a site that analyses the previous days trading where I could review it and try and get a handle on how the market works.

    Why Bitmex specifically. Is that where traders setup their short sells.

    How much of the daily trading is actually done by bots.

    Thanks for the detailed reply


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    #12
    grindle
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    stockshares wrote: »
    Where is the info about the 100million buying up the Bitcoin Sell orders. I would like to find a site that analyses the previous days trading where I could review it and try and get a handle on how the market works.
    https://www.investinblockchain.com/this-is-what-caused-the-crypto-spike-a-mystery-order/
    stockshares wrote: »
    Why Bitmex specifically. Is that where traders setup their short sells.
    Tradition? It was the first to offer insane margin leverage multipliers, 100x.
    It has (by a very long shot) the largest liquidity pool, so it makes the most sense to trade on - lower liquidity = easier to game - with Bitmex you have to be very rich and willing to lose it to take a chance at gaming it.
    stockshares wrote: »
    How much of the daily trading is actually done by bots.
    Impossible to know but if you look at the typical ****coin's orderbooks and see very fast trading for tiny amounts of value, those are bots.
    Most volumes are faked as in outright lies and the ones that aren't faked by lying are wash-trading by exchange-controlled bots. Market making/arbitrage is a big business too so a lot of bots belong to those who like the idea of making money in 0.5%-2% ticks by taking advantage of slight pumps and dumps across exchanges. The bots (owners) will have accounts open across many exchanges and the bots will be reading directly from the exchange's APIs and balance books between exchanges within seconds or minutes if there's heavy load on the servers.
    Look at the recent spike on the exchanges mentioned in the link above and compare the times it happened vs when it happened on Binance or other exchanges, it lagged behind by about 1m.


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    #13
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,757 ✭✭✭stockshares


    okIve just read that.
    Given that it was a large sale of 100million Btc, would that not drive the price down.

    I dont understand short selling at all.
    I would like to try a Bot service though to see how it operates. When you say the fast low value trades do you mean trading dust.


  • Options
    #14
    grindle
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    stockshares wrote: »
    okIve just read that.
    Given that it was a large sale of 100million Btc, would that not drive the price down.

    I dont understand short selling at all.
    I would like to try a Bot service though to see how it operates. When you say the fast low value trades do you mean trading dust.

    The spike upwards to $5k was caused by a buy of $100m in BTC.

    Wash-trading bots: Trading low amounts, yes. Not single satoshis or anything ridiculous but under $10 per trade. Not many people just buy $10 or sell just $10 or less at a time.


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    #15
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,757 ✭✭✭stockshares


    grindle wrote: »
    The spike upwards to $5k was caused by a buy of $100m in BTC.

    Wash-trading bots: Trading low amounts, yes. Not single satoshis or anything ridiculous but under $10 per trade. Not many people just buy $10 or sell just $10 or less at a time.

    I took it up wrong. I read it as a 100Million sell off and that was taken up by multiple smaller buys. I thought the buyer had setup an algorithm that allowed him/her/them to Buy the coins back across the exchanges. Ill have to read it again

    I bought at <10 starting out due to fear/caution. Thats how I bought the Bcash. It allowed smaller buys. <10each time until the price collapsed. Its only now that Ive decided to Invest


  • Options
    #16
    grindle
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    stockshares wrote: »
    I took it up wrong. I read it as a 100Million sell off and that was taken up by multiple smaller buys

    I bought at <10 starting out of caution. Yhats how I bought the Bcash. It allowed smaller buys. <10each time until the price collapsed. Its only now that Ive decided to Invest
    I obviously can't be certain what everybody does, but from what myself and everybody I know who's put money into this has done, we put €100-€1000 in, divide between what we want (just a few projects per time) and then go from there.

    Most important thing is to read about what really has potential and why, where it stands in terms of ratios to other coins.
    e.g. I could buy lots of BNB or BAT now, but they're both at or very near ATH on the ETH ratio - do I want to make a gamble at this stage that they'll outpace ETH?


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    #17
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,757 ✭✭✭stockshares


    grindle wrote: »
    I obviously can't be certain what everybody does, but from what myself and everybody I know who's put money into this has done, we put €100-€1000 in, divide between what we want (just a few projects per time) and then go from there.

    Most important thing is to read about what really has potential and why, where it stands in terms of ratios to other coins.
    e.g. I could buy lots of BNB or BAT now, but they're both at or very near ATH on the ETH ratio - do I want to make a gamble at this stage that they'll outpace ETH?

    My plan is to put in 50 -200 each time and split it betwen the Platform Prohects/Coins.

    Re the Eth ratio, do you not think that Bnb could rise significantly. I

    I re read the article on the 100Million buy. Heres the part that made me read it wrong

    "The change in market price was a surprise to many as it had come quite out of the blue. Reuters reports that the spike was the result of an anonymous crypto whale making a large sale, which subsequently triggered bots to execute a large volume of trades."

    Re the All Time High Prices. Is there a site that shows these in an updated list along with their All time lowest prices


  • Options
    #18
    grindle
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    stockshares wrote: »
    Re the Eth ratio, do you not think that Bnb could rise significantly.
    It could and has already, but I think Ethereum will increase moreso over the years. I might be wrong. I like BNB, it's one of the few tokens with a use. Consistent buy pressure, token burns lowering supply. Overbought right now imo but I'll scale back in from $5-$10 if/when it gets there again.
    I wistfully regret not going all-in BNB in 2017 but that would have been an even riskier and more retarded decision that the already-risky bet on Ethereum. Hindsight 20/20 and all that jazz.
    stockshares wrote: »
    Re the All Time High Prices. Is there a site that shows these in an updated list along with their All time lowest prices
    https://www.coingecko.com/en?view=all_time_high
    Handy to check where good projects are in relation to your preferred pair.


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    #19
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,757 ✭✭✭stockshares


    iii
    grindle wrote: »
    It could and has already, but I think Ethereum will increase moreso over the years. I might be wrong. I like BNB, it's one of the few tokens with a use. Consistent buy pressure, token burns lowering supply. Overbought right now imo but I'll scale back in from $5-$10 if/when it gets there again.
    I wistfully regret not going all-in BNB in 2017 but that would have been an even riskier and more retarded decision that the already-risky bet on Ethereum. Hindsight 20/20 and all that jazz.

    https://www.coingecko.com/en?view=all_time_high
    Handy to check where good projects are in relation to your preferred pair.

    Great stuff, thanks for the Link. Its a great resource, very handy to consult before investing.

    Its amazing looking back at the drop. Btc didnt drop as much as Eth.Btc lost 74% compared to Eth 88.6% and Bnb 27%.

    I seen Tethers ath was $1.32. If its pegged to the dollar how can its price be anything other than $1


  • Options
    #20
    grindle
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    stockshares wrote: »
    I seen Tethers ath was $1.32. If its pegged to the dollar how can its price be anything other than $1
    Good spot! Can't say I've paid attention to Tether's stats beyond it's crazy volume.
    Big 'if'. Notionally pegged to the dollar. May as well be pegged to the price of my arse hairs. Been trying to sell those for a dollar a pop but people prefer to buy Tether with their crypto. :sadface:
    Anyway, Coingecko has a borked stat somehow, could be a glitch with whatever they're using to pull exchange data.
    Coincheckup has the same feature and it's more customisable as you can see movements from ATH across a range of timeframes onscreen at once, but it's a bit laggy so I kind of default to Coingecko as a quick reference now.


  • Options
    #21
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,757 ✭✭✭stockshares


    grindle wrote: »
    Good spot! Can't say I've paid attention to Tether's stats beyond it's crazy volume.
    Big 'if'. Notionally pegged to the dollar. May as well be pegged to the price of my arse hairs. Been trying to sell those for a dollar a pop but people prefer to buy Tether with their crypto. :sadface:
    Anyway, Coingecko has a borked stat somehow, could be a glitch with whatever they're using to pull exchange data.
    Coincheckup has the same feature and it's more customisable as you can see movements from ATH across a range of timeframes onscreen at once, but it's a bit laggy so I kind of default to Coingecko as a quick reference now.

    I thought people buy Tether with their crypto in order to salvage some value when the market crashes. Then when the market picks up they dont have to use fiat to buy back in.

    I think another use for Tether(stablecoins) would be to convert your coin to tether and then transfer between wallets/exchanges. Apparently its better to do it this way in case price fluctuates during the Transfer.. What I cant undrrstand is why would it be used if it fluctuates between $1-1.32


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    #22
    grindle
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    I don't think it did fluctuate that wildly, all the other pricetrackers have it remaining steady during that period. As the crypto paraphrasing goes: "Don't trust. Verify."

    People do use Tether that way, but Tether has shown no proof of being fully backed. No reason to believe it's backed at all apart from "We promise though".


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