Drew Harris armoured jeep flung into the air at Garda HQ

Franz Von Peppercorn · 08-04-2019 06:01PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

VIP's crossing the Land Frontier have always had to exercise caution....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/gibson-a-marked-man-after-judgment-says-cory-1.400989

Different times,but similar risks ?

Of course the risks aren’t similar. He’s a Garda member coming south in an era when the troubles are over.

AlekSmart · 08-04-2019 06:07PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Of course the risks aren’t similar. He’s a Garda member coming south in an era when the troubles are over.

Oops,my bad,I'd forgotten most activists had gotten a trade or similar qualifications in the interval....:)

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/another-cash-machine-stolen-as-spate-of-atm-thefts-continues-1.3852289

Last week, police said that several criminal gangs were behind the series of the raids, with paramilitaries potentially cashing in on some of the ill-gotten gains.

Force Carrier · 08-04-2019 06:29PM

You don't want a situation where there is a specific geographical point known in advance for which an ambush can be set. So you don't want a pattern of switching vehicles at the exact border crossing. Even at a set number of rotating border crossings because they can pick one and wait every day until it's the one used and then strike.

However there is nothing to stop the changeover happening ten or fifteen miles either side of the border. At random positions arranged over radio each day. In that situation the incursions whilst against the letter of the law are in keeping with its spirit.

Unless of course Harris has less faith in the Garda than the PSNI and wants to stick with them as much as possible. Or unless it's a case of laziness, dispensing with changeover.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 08-04-2019 06:31PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

Oops,my bad,I'd forgotten most activists had gotten a trade or similar qualifications in the interval....:)

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/another-cash-machine-stolen-as-spate-of-atm-thefts-continues-1.3852289

Your bad indeed, because a few remnants of what was a much larger terrorist group engaging in criminality is hardly the same thing.

Are you saying that we are in the same kind of situation as the height of the troubles? That’s not the only problem with your logic - the IRA generally didn’t target the gardai but did the RUC, so if there was a risk going south from the IRA or other Republicans, which there isn’t, it would be more dangerous for the commissioner to be accompanied by the PSNI.

Remind me · 08-04-2019 06:44PM

MrFresh wrote: »

The Americans would be on diplomatic status anyway wouldn't they? I doubt it is the same process for cross border policing.

For foreign dignitaries looking for armed protection it is dealt with through Diplomatic channels and was generally rare for it to be granted, American and Israeli the exception, it is now more frequent and is common for foreign police to carry here.

The process for north/south is very similar.

Yurt2 · 08-04-2019 06:49PM

Former senior Garda and Interpol / Europol bod weighs in...

Calls it "most unusual" and questions what would the legal standing be if a discharge of firearms occurred:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/psni-escort-for-harris-to-dublin-most-unusual-decision-1.3853154

Worst case scenario - If there was an indecent, and an unlawful killing took place with a firearm that shouldn't have been in the state in the hands of another jurisdiction's officer, imagine the fallout. Extradition tug-o-war, political war of words with London, inquiries, legal fees in the millions, heads on plates left right and center. Foolish cavalier decision.

Ubbquittious · 08-04-2019 06:52PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

And!

What's the issue with having to stop to prove who you are.

They do so at the Daìl.

Who picks up the tab on this?

Armoured vehicles are in no way cheap.

Would a helicopter not be a much better use of resources as taking a number of vehicles off the road to escort etc...

Ah we are back to the tiger! Helicopter is a much better job all round. Cars are only for plebs

McMurphy · 08-04-2019 06:59PM

Yurt! wrote: »

Former senior Garda and Interpol / Europol bod weighs in...

Calls it "most unusual" and questions what would the legal standing be if a discharge of firearms occurred:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/psni-escort-for-harris-to-dublin-most-unusual-decision-1.3853154

Worst case scenario - If there was an indecent, and an unlawful killing took place with a firearm that shouldn't have been in the state in the hands of another jurisdiction's officer, imagine the fallout. Extradition tug-o-war, political war of words with London, inquiries, legal fees in the millions, heads on plates left right and center. Foolish cavalier decision.

You'd imagine this guy would know the legality of such things.

“The officers concerned have no authority to carry firearms. There are huge issues around how they would respond and what the legality of it would be, if they were under attack. The only reason you have armed personnel protecting an individual is that it is anticipated they may be subject to an egregious attack.”

Mr O’Brien said there was also the possibility the PSNI officers involved could have been targeted on their return journey.

“Drew Harris needs to indicate why he exercised this particular judgment in this case because it is, in my professional experience, most unusual,” he told RTradio.

“If some incident goes down, what are the rules of engagement? The bottom line is that the gardai and the Defence Forces are the only service permitted to carry firearms in this jurisdiction,” he said.

Yurt2 · 08-04-2019 06:59PM

Remind me wrote: »

For foreign dignitaries looking for armed protection it is dealt with through Diplomatic channels and was generally rare for it to be granted, American and Israeli the exception, it is now more frequent and is common for foreign police to carry here.

The process for north/south is very similar.

I should think that the general public would like to have some light shed on the frequency to which foreign police forces are running around the country armed with weapons.

I do know it happens with high-profile political visitors, but as you mentioned yourself, there is a procedure and a paper-trail involving multiple arms of the state. The Garda Commissioner isn't Caeser; he can't just wave a wand and allow whatever agency he wants to carry weapons at a whim: "fire away there lads, just don't shoot anyone in the head - I'll get in fierce trouble."

Shaque attack · 08-04-2019 07:02PM

X

_Brian · 08-04-2019 07:03PM

Can’t believe Garda HQ will keep the cctv under wraps O’R has it been leaked already ?

mfceiling · 08-04-2019 07:11PM

MrFresh wrote: »

Most likely they can't confirm the details of the story. There's a lot of versions going around.

Much like the sh*te being posted on this thread.

"I'd say"
"I reckon"
"What if"

Give me a fcuking break. I'm sure we'll get the full story of this sooner or later. If not then it's out with the old, in with the old.

zapitastas · 08-04-2019 07:52PM

Remind me wrote: »

Fully legal if permission is given. No different to secret service carrying firearms if an American President is over.

If the minister of Justice gives permission. He didn't indicate that he did on this occasion. He skirted the issue

MrFresh · 08-04-2019 07:53PM

zapitastas wrote: »

If the minister of Justice gives permission. He didn't indicate that he did on this occasion. He skirted the issue

It's unlikely there will be any official comment on the facts because it would compromise the security of future escorts.

TomasMacR · 08-04-2019 07:56PM

MrFresh wrote: »

It's unlikely there will be any official comment on the facts because it would compromise the security of future escorts.

you need to ring them up with that one, unless of course you already are their press officer. the deafening silence means they haven't already thought of this bullsh*t response.

MrFresh · 08-04-2019 08:22PM

TomasMacR wrote: »

you need to ring them up with that one, unless of course you already are their press officer. the deafening silence means they haven't already thought of this bullsh*t response.

He's still traveling to and from NI. It would be very irresponsible to confirm details of his escort while it's still being done regularly. Rather than just call it bull**** can you say why you think otherwise?

Tomas81 · 08-04-2019 08:24PM

MrFresh wrote: »

He's still traveling to and from NI. It would be very irresponsible to confirm details of his escort while it's still being done regularly. Rather than just call it bull**** can you say why you think otherwise?

He should be residing within his own state of responsibility. Sitting in a nice big house In Holywood isn't good enough not even In the jurisdiction.

MrFresh · 08-04-2019 08:26PM

Tomas81 wrote: »

He should be residing within his own state of responsibility. Sitting in a nice big house In Holywood isn't good enough not even In the jurisdiction.

Maybe he should, but he isn't. So my point remains the same.

TomasMacR · 08-04-2019 08:32PM

MrFresh wrote: »

He's still traveling to and from NI. It would be very irresponsible to confirm details of his escort while it's still being done regularly. Rather than just call it bull**** can you say why you think otherwise?

I think you picked me up wrong, you are totally correct. I think your explanation is perfect for any of Harris's spokesperson to give this response and not to divulge on details when the press ask for details on anything.

Remind me · 08-04-2019 08:50PM

Yurt! wrote: »

I should think that the general public would like to have some light shed on the frequency to which foreign police forces are running around the country armed with weapons.

I do know it happens with high-profile political visitors, but as you mentioned yourself, there is a procedure and a paper-trail involving multiple arms of the state. The Garda Commissioner isn't Caeser; he can't just wave a wand and allow whatever agency he wants to carry weapons at a whim: "fire away there lads, just don't shoot anyone in the head - I'll get in fierce trouble."

I’m not saying he did just wave it and if it was a case that it was not known that they were armed there will be serious repercussions.

Is their confirmation they were armed?

I also don’t think the public need to know who is armed or not in high level visits. But a different issue.

Tomas81 · 08-04-2019 08:57PM

MrFresh wrote: »

Maybe he should, but he isn't. So my point remains the same.

No maybe about it. He's OC or CO or GC or whatever mantal he is given, he should be within their operational area, he should also be using his own security detail not a British security detail armed within another jurisdiction. This is a diplomatic issue at a time when both governments are at each others throats regarding Brexit.

Sinus pain · 08-04-2019 09:13PM

Why does he travel regularly north of the border? Is this a regular thing or sporadic visit? Why do tax payers pay for his residence? Is he that important?

Remind me · 08-04-2019 09:15PM

Sinus pain wrote: »

Why does he travel regularly north of the border? Is this a regular thing or sporadic visit? Why do tax payers pay for his residence? Is he that important?

His family still live up north.

Tomas81 · 08-04-2019 09:19PM

Sinus pain wrote: »

Why does he travel regularly north of the border? Is this a regular thing or sporadic visit? Why do tax payers pay for his residence? Is he that important?

Travel? He lives in Co Down. He drives down daily.

Tomas81 · 08-04-2019 09:19PM

Remind me wrote: »

His family still live up north.

As does he.

omega man · 08-04-2019 09:21PM

We are really so far from a united ireland judging by the reaction to this event.
Whether we like it or not though this isn’t something to be played out in public for the benefit of political parties. It’s a state security matter.

Remind me · 08-04-2019 09:23PM

Tomas81 wrote: »

As does he.

Really? Commuting everyday?

I was under the impression he stays down a lot of the time.

McMurphy · 08-04-2019 09:24PM

Tomas81 wrote: »

Travel? He lives in Co Down. He drives down daily.

I thought I read that he lives down here on site in the park/Garda HQ?

Did I not just read something about a garda being given the job of walking his dogs due to security concerns?

If he is indeed travelling up and down daily (or when on duty) you naturally would have to wonder if this is the first time that armed psni men accompanied him to the capital.

Or is the first time it was leaked highlighted?

Sinus pain · 08-04-2019 09:24PM

Tomas81 wrote: »

Sinus pain wrote: »

Why does he travel regularly north of the border? Is this a regular thing or sporadic visit? Why do tax payers pay for his residence? Is he that important?

Travel? He lives in Co Down. He drives down daily.

Why is the tax payer and indeed the U.K. tax payer paying for him to travel to work? I thought it was mentioned here he lives in the park?

janfebmar · 08-04-2019 09:26PM

_Brian wrote: »

Can’t believe Garda HQ will keep the cctv under wraps

A bit embarrassing for them to extensively damage the jeep their own boss in in after letting a garda car through.

Drew Harris armoured jeep flung into the air at Garda HQ

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