Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Grandeeod · 04-04-2019 11:28am

wowy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/electionlit/status/1113531530285076480

Has this LE candidate not got this totally wrong? He's saying that the Charlemont-Sandyford section is being upgraded to a segregated metro service? Isn't the revised proposal for that section to just increase existing luas frequency to every 2 minutes?

Also, unsurprising to see the "2-4 year disruption" line still being peddled by politicians and candidates.

This guy hasn't a clue what he is talking about.

Pixel Eater · 04-04-2019 11:40am

CatInABox wrote: »

Once construction of the station has finished, they'll sell off the land to be redeveloped. It's up to whoever buys it to make the most use of the land, and I'm not sure that the NTA can put restrictions on what can and can't be built there.

I'd eat my hat if An Bord Pleanala don't make expanded leisure facilities a requirement of any development there though. They'll probably make reference to it in the railway order, just so that any buyer knows exactly what they're getting into.

Well I assume that the NTA have no real power in it but between them, the council and An Bord Pleanála could come out with a statement stating that any future development would require x, y and z; namely a gym and more apartments. They have the power after all.

On a separate but related topic I read an article in the Guardian recently about the MTR in Hong Kong, probably one of the best and most efficient transport systems in the world.They require no public subsidies and actually turn a profit from basically the rental income of property they own. Unlikely to happen here but interesting nonetheless.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/mar/19/how-public-transport-actually-turns-a-profit-in-hong-kong

Dats me · 04-04-2019 12:29pm

I was just thinking about all the doom and gloom we had here. I know the Green Line fudge is silly, but does anyone think that MetroLink now won't be built?

When the first route was announced there were a few weeks where everyone, me included, thought this was done for. Then when waiting for this plan it didn't look good.

But now it looks nailed on doesn't it? Bar recession etc but even the old metro plans were just going to start construction in 2021 so nothing lost in actually making it a proper Metro.

Sam Russell · 04-04-2019 1:01pm

Dats me wrote: »

I was just thinking about all the doom and gloom we had here. I know the Green Line fudge is silly, but does anyone think that MetroLink now won't be built?

When the first route was announced there were a few weeks where everyone, me included, thought this was done for. Then when waiting for this plan it didn't look good.

But now it looks nailed on doesn't it? Bar recession etc but even the old metro plans were just going to start construction in 2021 so nothing lost in actually making it a proper Metro.

Well, if construction starts in 2021 and finishes in 2027, then the time for a rethink on the Metrolink to Sandyford will be within 2 years, just after the local elections and the GE is done with. So, depending on who gets into office, what is likely? FF or FG should look at this and get back to sense, or perhaps not.

The tie-in will be south of Ranelagh under the current plan, so it must be south of Beechwood - so why not tunnel to south of Beechwood now?

salmocab · 04-04-2019 1:31pm

wowy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/electionlit/status/1113531530285076480

Has this LE candidate not got this totally wrong? He's saying that the Charlemont-Sandyford section is being upgraded to a segregated metro service? Isn't the revised proposal for that section to just increase existing luas frequency to every 2 minutes?

Also, unsurprising to see the "2-4 year disruption" line still being peddled by politicians and candidates.

Local politician rushes out information without having a clue what he’s driveling on about shocker.

CatInABox · 04-04-2019 3:36pm

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Well I assume that the NTA have no real power in it but between them, the council and An Bord Pleanála could come out with a statement stating that any future development would require x, y and z; namely a gym and more apartments. They have the power after all.

Legally speaking, I doubt that ABP has the power to place restrictions on any future, not yet decided project. Once they get the Railway Order in, yeah, that'll be the first thing on the list.

It might be common sense that they could do so, but that kind of unusual proclamation can result in unintended consequences, so they'll wait until then I'd say.

Pixel Eater wrote: »

On a separate but related topic I read an article in the Guardian recently about the MTR in Hong Kong, probably one of the best and most efficient transport systems in the world.They require no public subsidies and actually turn a profit from basically the rental income of property they own. Unlikely to happen here but interesting nonetheless.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/mar/19/how-public-transport-actually-turns-a-profit-in-hong-kong

Same as the railway companies in Japan, the stations are owned by the company, and are absolutely massive, with shopping centres, apartments, offices.

Definitely down to the culture though, there's not a chance that I'd trust Irish Rail to run a shopping centre.

Pixel Eater · 04-04-2019 4:19pm

CatInABox wrote: »

Legally speaking, I doubt that ABP has the power to place restrictions on any future, not yet decided project. Once they get the Railway Order in, yeah, that'll be the first thing on the list.

It might be common sense that they could do so, but that kind of unusual proclamation can result in unintended consequences, so they'll wait until then I'd say.

Same as the railway companies in Japan, the stations are owned by the company, and are absolutely massive, with shopping centres, apartments, offices.

Definitely down to the culture though, there's not a chance that I'd trust Irish Rail to run a shopping centre.

True; Irish Rail struggle to run the train system never mind anything else. But imagine if they build a 12-15 storry block of flats, it would located over the busiest station in the country, connected to rail, metro and Luas in the centre of Dublin. A portion for social/affordable housing, the rest market value, get someone else to run it... ching ching!

salmocab · 04-04-2019 4:22pm

To be fair they just need to bring in a management company it’s not like the guy who organizes timetables suddenly has to negotiate opening hours with different shops and organize the store Santa.

tallaghtfornia · 04-04-2019 4:44pm

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Well I assume that the NTA have no real power in it but between them, the council and An Bord Pleanála could come out with a statement stating that any future development would require x, y and z; namely a gym and more apartments. They have the power after all.

On a separate but related topic I read an article in the Guardian recently about the MTR in Hong Kong, probably one of the best and most efficient transport systems in the world.They require no public subsidies and actually turn a profit from basically the rental income of property they own. Unlikely to happen here but interesting nonetheless.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/mar/19/how-public-transport-actually-turns-a-profit-in-hong-kong

I travel to HK a bit for work and can confirm that the MRT is the beacon for all the major cites in the world.

Idbatterim · 04-04-2019 6:17pm

lads it the attached correct in the summary of considered routes?

antoinolachtnai · 04-04-2019 8:20pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

lads it the attached correct in the summary of considered routes?

Sounds like what is in the reports.

However, it makes no sense to use a load factor of 0.9 for planning. The fact that this load factor is currently being ‘achieved’ on the Green Line just reflects the fact that trams in the peak quarter hour are leaving people behind and they are being forced to either side of the peak.

LeinsterDub · 04-04-2019 8:21pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

lads it the attached correct in the summary of considered routes?

Who made these?

Idbatterim · 04-04-2019 8:52pm

Councillor Shay brennan, had a meeting in the goat pub yesterday! Was very pro the original plan, not the current joke!

According to him and the slide he provided, keeping Dunville avenue makes it go from a 17 month closure to 4 years if a bridge or underpass it built! That is off the wall! allow car and bike traffic and FCUK the cars, if that is the cost of this farce!

jd · 04-04-2019 9:34pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

lads it the attached correct in the summary of considered routes?

Where are you getting that Ranelagh-Beechwood would be closed for 31 months under the new plan?

MJohnston · 04-04-2019 11:00pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

lads it the attached correct in the summary of considered routes?

A few things a bit wrong:

The initial route was called the Emerging Preferred Route. The one we have now is simply the Preferred Route.

There is no disruption to the Green Line under the current Preferred Route (don't know where they got the 31 months from).

L1011 · 05-04-2019 8:24am

CatInABox wrote: »

Same as the railway companies in Japan, the stations are owned by the company, and are absolutely massive, with shopping centres, apartments, offices.

Definitely down to the culture though, there's not a chance that I'd trust Irish Rail to run a shopping centre.

CIE Group make huge rents from land and buildings - this is how they've been able to bail out their operating companies a few times. The ownership structure is different but they do chase non transport income

Connolly Station is undergoing major works currently to increase the retail floor area for instance

Dats me · 05-04-2019 8:35pm

"On the council leisure facility and swimming pool, the NTA is working with the council to identify our new site in the area and to construct a new leisure centre in advance of the closure of the existing one."

Shane Ross

https://www.kildarestreet.com/sendebates/?id=2019-04-04a.123

CatInABox · 05-04-2019 9:17pm

Dats me wrote: »

"On the council leisure facility and swimming pool, the NTA is working with the council to identify our new site in the area and to construct a new leisure centre in advance of the closure of the existing one."

Shane Ross

https://www.kildarestreet.com/sendebates/?id=2019-04-04a.123

Hard to think of a better way of dealing with the situation. I did think it odd that DCC were extremely quiet about the whole thing, I assume now that they knew that they'd end up with a better facility afterwards.

CatInABox · 06-04-2019 7:44am

CatInABox wrote: »

Hard to think of a better way of dealing with the situation. I did think it odd that DCC were extremely quiet about the whole thing, I assume now that they knew that they'd end up with a better facility afterwards.

Thinking more on this, I wouldn't be surprised to see the derelict building across the road from the Townsend St social housing being bought/CPO'd, demolished, and redeveloped into a gym with social housing above it. That deals with all of DCCs possible objections, they'll get a gym and a place to move the people currently living in the Townsend St social housing.

OneEightSeven · 06-04-2019 4:36pm

What happened to the old overpass at Dunville Avenue?

Qrt · 06-04-2019 4:44pm

OneEightSeven wrote: »

What happened to the old overpass at Dunville Avenue?

Demolished. I love our foresight.

jd · 06-04-2019 7:26pm

OneEightSeven wrote: »

What happened to the old overpass at Dunville Avenue?

When the Green Line was being built the people with adjoining properties wanted the line lowered so they would not be overlooked.. (see a pattern here?)

edit - found some reference here http://www.dttas.ie/sites/default/files/node/add/content-publication/Findings%20of%20Line%20B.pdf

gjim · 06-04-2019 7:33pm

My memory is fuzzy but I think the bridge arch had been removed years before the Luas work.

Wasn't there a NIMBY element involved back then also? I think I remember objections to vehicle height restrictions which re-instating the arch would have required. And of course there was the "overlooking our gardens"/privacy objections so removing the embankment altogether was the "solution". Unfortunately google isn't helping me here with references but I don't think I'm dreaming this.

Edit: just saw jd's post after posting this. That confirms some of my memory also.

cgcsb · 06-04-2019 7:36pm

Someone very powerful indeed must live there

salmocab · 06-04-2019 8:29pm

I’d say at that time it was just the easiest option to not have to rebuild the bridge and not have to put up with the protests. Classic someone can sort it in the future planning. Just like the recent fudge. Just like not linking up the two lines from day one.

Idbatterim · 07-04-2019 10:29am

There is an article on the journal about college gate apartments. Is knocking George’s quay block instead an option? No homes, it’s bloody office space...

salmocab · 07-04-2019 11:04am

Idbatterim wrote: »

There is an article on the journal about college gate apartments. Is knocking George’s quay block instead an option? No homes, it’s bloody office space...

Offices are probably harder to relocate as you would need to get space for x hundreds of people nearby under the same roof with similar parking numbers etc where as all the residents don’t need to go to the same building.

CatInABox · 07-04-2019 12:02pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

There is an article on the journal about college gate apartments. Is knocking George’s quay block instead an option? No homes, it’s bloody office space...

They looked at it for their report, but rejected it for numerous reasons. It would cost significantly more, it would impact on the river Gallows, but the reason that seems to have concerned them most was that it would cross under the dart line twice, and the work would impact on impact on the foundations of Tara St station.

Idbatterim · 07-04-2019 12:54pm

Keeping dunville open was done to “protect” a handful, with a farce of an outcome. Yet demolishing seventy apartments and they are all for doing the “ right thing for the project” it’s laughable.

Good luck to those residents even finding somewhere else. WhAt about those there that are paying well below market rent ?

salmocab · 07-04-2019 1:10pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Good luck to those residents even finding somewhere else. WhAt about those there that are paying well below market rent ?

The tenants are getting a good deal in fairness.

Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

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