Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Graffiti on trains

Options
  • 31-03-2019 10:34pm
    #1
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭


    Is it just me or has this gotten a lot worse in recent months?
    I got on two different trains today, both had graffiti sprayed on them.
    Is there just too much being done that they can't clean them all off in time, or is it just tolerated more.
    Surely it isn't that hard to clean off?


«13

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,149 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Not really, just less slack to take a train out of service for cleaning due capacity requirements.


  • Options
    #3
    Vic_08
    Registered Users Posts: 3,046 ✭✭✭Vic_08


    Effects wrote: »
    Is it just me or has this gotten a lot worse in recent months?
    I got on two different trains today, both had graffiti sprayed on them.
    Is there just too much being done that they can't clean them all off in time, or is it just tolerated more.
    Surely it isn't that hard to clean off?

    It requires application of a chemical remover by hand and then scraping off, often more than one pass is required to fully remove the damage.

    IMO no stock should be allowed in service with graffiti, even if it means cancelling or short forming trains. LU brought in that policy in the 90s when it had gotten out of control. The more public visibility this vandalism gets the more it encourages the same scumbags to do more and others to copy them.

    Unfortunately the state of our railways with this sh!t is just a symptom of our country's unwillingness to police and control so called "low-level" criminal behaviour, there is no longer any effective policing and even when caught there is even less effective legal remedies. In Ireland you get a free pass for anti-social and criminal behaviour.


  • Options
    #4
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    I don't think I'd want it affecting service myself. Is there not enough stock to pull it out and clean it without affecting service?
    I understand there may be less man power available to do that as well though.


  • Options
    #5
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 68,041 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    There is next to no spare stock. DART had quite a bit until the 10 minute frequency came in, but not anymore.


  • Options
    #6
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    Are there more trains on order? I know they had a recent recruitment for drivers.
    I just never thought I'd see things getting to a stage where graffiti was running on trains.
    I know it's happening a lot in NYC at the moment but that's part of a wider problem of their service and infrastructure going badly down hill.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 68,041 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Tender going out in April apparently for bi-mode units, and more 22k centre cars are to be ordered. The NTA is looking at second hand UK units also


  • Options
    #8
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Effects wrote: »
    Are there more trains on order? I know they had a recent recruitment for drivers.
    I just never thought I'd see things getting to a stage where graffiti was running on trains.
    I know it's happening a lot in NYC at the moment but that's part of a wider problem of their service and infrastructure going badly down hill.

    It has been at epidemic levels in the US for decades and that's why it so depressing that those in charge here don't understand the need to get on top of the the problem from the outset. It doesn't just apply to CIE but to the country as a whole.

    ****



  • Options
    #9
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    It has been at epidemic levels in the US for decades.

    No, it's gotten far far worse. I just don't you know the level it's at. Whole NY subway trains, covered top to bottom. That hasn't been the case since the 80s. Even in the 90s they wouldn't be that bad, and they certainly wouldn't run them in service.


  • Options
    #10
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    Can't they have contract cleaners on night shift removing this stuff before the morning?


  • Options
    #11
    Captain Chaos
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    Effects wrote: »
    Can't they have contract cleaners on night shift removing this stuff before the morning?

    The graffiti is happening at night on the sets left out in the open while others are being cleaned. Plus it takes a good bit of time to remove, more than one night shift.

    I've noticed the maintenance is starting to suffer too. Lots of sets going around with wheels flats, doors out of service and faulty rattling air con.

    The DART units are not going to last long at this rate. Aot more units are need for this 10 minute timetable


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Fairview should have security at night. You don't see Luas suffer with the same problems. They even send a team out if a tram cannot get back to depot.

    Fairview, Connolly and Drogheda are problem areas.


  • Options
    #13
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Fairview should have security at night.

    I'd have thought they do, but are they just not good enough?
    What about the cameras they have, are they just recording or monitored remotely?
    Fairview is pretty close to Clontarf Garda station if a rapid response was needed.


  • Options
    #14
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Effects wrote: »
    I'd have thought they do, but are they just not good enough?
    What about the cameras they have, are they just recording or monitored remotely?
    Fairview is pretty close to Clontarf Garda station if a rapid response was needed.

    CIE is the problem - they couldn't care less about graffiti or much anything else.

    ****



  • Options
    #15
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Effects wrote: »
    I'd have thought they do, but are they just not good enough?
    What about the cameras they have, are they just recording or monitored remotely?
    Fairview is pretty close to Clontarf Garda station if a rapid response was needed.

    I don't know the set up however considering its a frequent problem particularly with DARTs a change is needed. They claim to spend up to a million on removing it a fraction of this could eliminate most of the problem assuming it happens in a depot overnight.


  • Options
    #16
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Fairview should have security at night. You don't see Luas suffer with the same problems. They even send a team out if a tram cannot get back to depot.

    Fairview, Connolly and Drogheda are problem areas.

    To be fair it is easier to secure one of the Luas depots which are more like a bus garage which can easily be secured with gates and high walls than a railway which can be accessed by walking up the line and then there's also the trains stabled in Bray.


  • Options
    #17
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    The level of graffiti here is tiny compared to many continental countries. I've been on trains in France where it was so bad you literally couldn't see out any of the windows.

    It's so out of hand in France that I find it depressing tbh. You're just looking out the window at graffiti all over every surface and most of it isn't even remotely artistic.


  • Options
    #18
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Vic_08 wrote: »
    IMO no stock should be allowed in service with graffiti, even if it means cancelling or short forming trains. LU brought in that policy in the 90s when it had gotten out of control. The more public visibility this vandalism gets the more it encourages the same scumbags to do more and others to copy them.

    Unfortunately the state of our railways with this sh!t is just a symptom of our country's unwillingness to police and control so called "low-level" criminal behaviour, there is no longer any effective policing and even when caught there is even less effective legal remedies. In Ireland you get a free pass for anti-social and criminal behaviour.

    I wouldn't agree with that now. Ireland is not particularly bad compared to anywhere else in Europe for graffiti on rolling stock. Not justifying it but it's actually fairly common to see graffitied stock in service on the continent even in some of the Nordic countries where one would assume are wealthier and better able to afford removal.

    IE should certainly be looking to do all they can to prevent graffitied cars running in service without having to disrupt services. I was on the S-Bahn in Berlin and a number of the cars would have graffiti but the traisn certainly weren't overrun with it. The worst I've ever seen is the Metro in Rome where virtually every station and carriage is covered in it.


  • Options
    #19
    Sam Quentin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭Sam Quentin


    Trains in Italy, trains in London, coming into all the main stns in Italy, UK all over Europe and it all looks terrible and depressing.. I blame the USA cop shows and sitcoms from the 70s & 80s,every time you'd see a shot from a metro or train stn they'd be covered in shítr non sensical graffiti vandalism. I certainly wouldn't start dissing IE because of it.. but I do agree a sterner approach should be taken towards it.


  • Options
    #20
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Anteayer wrote: »
    The level of graffiti here is tiny compared to many continental countries. I've been on trains in France where it was so bad you literally couldn't see out any of the windows.

    It's so out of hand in France that I find it depressing tbh. You're just looking out the window at graffiti all over every surface and most of it isn't even remotely artistic.

    That's okay so, nothing to see here and we can bury our heads in the sand until it gets totally out of hand - bit like the drugs problem. :rolleyes:

    ****



  • Options
    #21
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    To be fair it is easier to secure one of the Luas depots which are more like a bus garage which can easily be secured with gates and high walls than a railway which can be accessed by walking up the line and then there's also the trains stabled in Bray.

    Perhaps however you don't see them causing problems at Portlaoise Depot. I am not saying they will eliminate it however they could do more to prevent.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    That's okay so, nothing to see here and we can bury our heads in the sand until it gets totally out of hand - bit like the drugs problem. :rolleyes:

    Did I say do nothing about it?!!!


  • Options
    #23
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Anteayer wrote: »
    Did I say do nothing about it?!!!

    Apologies, it's just my style of posting. Usually 'it's worse in Paris, New York etc,' is wheeled out by people who suggest that things aren't that bad here - i.e we don't need to do anything about the particular problem. :)

    ****



  • Options
    #24
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    It should be nipped in the bud but overall I don't think that should be particularly difficult as it really isn't all that large scale yet.

    It's another reason why transit police are needed.


  • Options
    #25
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,915 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    CIE is the problem - they couldn't care less about graffiti or much anything else.

    In fairness to Irish Rail, they do withdraw sets for expensive cleaning as soon as they can. Your kicking of CIE/IE for the sake of it all of the time is rather tiresome.


  • Options
    #26
    Keyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    Effects wrote: »
    Can't they have contract cleaners on night shift removing this stuff before the morning?

    Are you joking? They can barely get the trains to operate anywhere near one time. Paying for someone to clean them would require a monumental break from the prehistoric and non-ambitious management style in Irish Rail.


  • Options
    #27
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    It's very expensive and difficult to clean too, as you're often cleaning what is basically the same kind of coatings that are actually used to paint trains in first place.

    It's both extremely expensive and environmentally damaging process, as is the graffiti painting in the first place.

    So everytime those trains are damaged by graffiti it means money that could be going to delivery of services is going to specialist cleaning and even potentially repainting of vehicles.

    Can you imagine if someone did that to your car or your house on a regular basis?!


  • Options
    #28
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    In fairness to Irish Rail, they do withdraw sets for expensive cleaning as soon as they can.

    Is it that expensive? I'd imagine 500 euro would cover it.


  • Options
    #29
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Effects wrote: »
    Is it that expensive? I'd imagine 500 euro would cover it.

    If the damage is significant it may require a full respray rather than scrubbing it off.


  • Options
    #30
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,915 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Effects wrote: »
    Is it that expensive? I'd imagine 500 euro would cover it.

    I'll take a spray can and cover your car with paint, see how you get on.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Staking out some of the locations where the graffiti 'artists' are operating and some high profile prosecutions might go some way to act as a deterrent.

    ****



Advertisement