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Micky Jackson in trouble again

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    Raking in several million easy dollars will make you believe anything.

    So you think Reed is lying when he says he believes the lads who you think are lying?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,492 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    So... it’s not easily verifiable? It is or it isn’t.

    Can you say that Jackson did not telephone James Safechuck towards the end of the trial? That is easily something that Jackson could do out of desperation. He didn’t know what the verdict would be at that stage, after all.

    Yes.

    It was pretty apparent from early on that the trial was a complete sham, it had basically fallen apart by the end of the trial.

    As stated by Matt Taibbi who was not a fan of Jackson.
    Virtually every piece of [Sneddon’s] case imploded in open court, and the chief drama of the trial quickly turned into a race to see if the DA could manage to put all of his witnesses on the stand without getting any of them removed from the courthouse in manacles

    But I don't think you are actually getting it, Safechuck could not testify at any point in the trial let alone near the end of it.

    But if you don't believe that just use some common sense, in a trial that they had basically all ready won, they are trying to threaten a witness that was sexually abused by the defendant to testify. That is the most stupid and reckless legal strategy in legal history if to be believed.

    It's nonsense and complete lies.


    Mr.Wemmick wrote: »
    They could've proved no calls were made to Safechuck/his house in that time period which link back to MJ personally or to the lawyers.

    Really, how long are carriers obliged to keep records for?

    The calls obviously didn't exist, so what phones do they try and track?


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    It is highly improbable that Jackson or his representatives contacted Safechuck about testifying at the 2005 trial. The trial was going Jackson's way from the off, so there was no need to call in any new "star" witness to save him, especially as the judge had already ruled out any other witnesses. So this one seems to have come straight from Safechuck's imagination.

    The problem for Robson and Safechuck is they left their allegations too long, memories of everyone involved have faded, particularly Robson who had to ask his mother if certain things were true or not. And after checking with her, he then proceeded to say he remembered everything exactly.

    Robson claimed for years he wasn't abused by Jackson. He changed his story when he saw Safechuck making his pitch for hundreds of millions. No financial motivation? Yeh right! And this came after Robson claimed to have lost the History gig due to stress, when in fact he lost it due to not being the best person qualified.

    Safechuck's mother claimed she was happy when she heard Jackson died so he couldn't hurt any more children even though Safechuck didn't tell her until years later he was abused.

    Robson's mother swore under oath they visited Neverland 14 times and Jackson was present at most 4 times.

    Reed claims Safechuck was abused at Neverland up to the age of 16 or 17. Safechuck claims he visited Neverland for the last time when he was 14.

    How many lies and inconsistences do these guys expect us to swallow?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    It is highly improbable that Jackson or his representatives contacted Safechuck about testifying at the 2005 trial. The trial was going Jackson's way from the off, so there was no need to call in any new "star" witness to save him, especially as the judge had already ruled out any other witnesses. So this one seems to have come straight from Safechuck's imagination.

    The problem for Robson and Safechuck is they left their allegations too long, memories of everyone involved have faded, particularly Robson who had to ask his mother if certain things were true or not. And after checking with her, he then proceeded to say he remembered everything exactly.

    Robson claimed for years he wasn't abused by Jackson. He changed his story when he saw Safechuck making his pitch for hundreds of millions. No financial motivation? Yeh right! And this came after Robson claimed to have lost the History gig due to stress, when in fact he lost it due to not being the best person qualified.

    Safechuck's mother claimed she was happy when she heard Jackson died so he couldn't hurt any more children even though Safechuck didn't tell her until years later he was abused.

    Robson's mother swore under oath they visited Neverland 14 times and Jackson was present at most 4 times.

    Reed claims Safechuck was abused at Neverland up to the age of 16 or 17. Safechuck claims he visited Neverland for the last time when he was 14.

    How many lies and inconsistences do these guys expect us to swallow?

    No, Robson moved first of the two men. I thought you dealt in facts?

    And please tell us you’re not claiming to be on the fence anymore? It was always transparently obvious that you weren’t but credit other forum members with some intelligence, will you?


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    No, Robson moved first of two men.

    Well the point is still the same. Robson wanted several hundred million. So money has been a motive and their guff about doing it all to empower victims is very hollow.

    There's plenty more inconsistencies in their accounts by the way.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Well the point is still the same. Robson wanted several hundred million. So money has been a motive and their guff about doing it all to empower victims is very hollow.

    There's plenty more inconsistencies in their accounts by the way.

    No, you painted it like Robson defended Jackson and only changed his story when he was inspired by Safechuck. So it absolutely isn’t the same.

    I wouldn’t expect them to remember exact dates. They were children. I have key memories from my childhood. I remember the events but don’t remember all the dates. And as of now, Mike Smallcombe has only addressed one of the two books which mention what James described being there in 1990. Despite his attention being drawn to both.

    It’s interesting that you make no mention of the things they’ve said that have been backed up since.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    No, Robson moved first of the two men. I thought you dealt in facts?

    And please tell us you’re not claiming to be on the fence anymore? It was always transparently obvious that you weren’t but credit other forum members with some intelligence, will you?

    Its impossible to be certain of anything based on the testimony of two guys with a long history of telling tall stories and lies.

    So yes, I will remain on the fence while there's inconsistencies in their stories. If I am leaning in any direction its that these guys are accomplished liars. And as more and more inconsistencies are uncovered each day, that becomes more obvious.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    No, you painted it like Robson defended Jackson and only changed his story when he was inspired by Safechuck. So it absolutely isn’t the same.

    I wouldn’t expect them to remember exact dates. They were children. I have key memories from my childhood. I remember the events but don’t remember all the dates. And as of now, Mike Smallcombe has only addressed one of the two books which mention what James described being there in 1990. Despite his attention being drawn to both.

    It’s interesting that you make no mention of the things they’ve said that have been backed up since.

    Wait, they are adamant certain things happened, but they can't remember the year or even within 3 years, despite the fact they were in their mid to late teens for some alleged events. They can't remember if the abuse ended in 1992 or 1994 or even later.

    FFS. Do you think we are all fools? They are certainly playing a lot of incredibly gullible people for fools. And I include Reed in that, whose either been fooled by these guys or collaborating in trying to fool people.

    All I need is a few more inconsistencies from these guys to know for certain they are bullsh*t artists.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Its impossible to be certain of anything based on the testimony of two guys with a long history of telling tall stories and lies.

    So yes, I will remain on the fence while there's inconsistencies in their stories. If I am leaning in any direction its that these guys are accomplished liars. And as more and more inconsistencies are uncovered each day, that becomes more obvious.

    Oh for the love of jaysus. :D As annoying and all as sligeach is in his MJ defence, at least he has the courage of his convictions.

    You’ve ably demonstrated on this very thread how easily little mistakes are made. First addressing me in a reply about a point that was made by another forum member. Secondly by not even knowing that Robson was the first of the two to take legal action. But you’re are nitpicking these two men’s accounts because they might get dates a bit wrong of events that happened in their formative years? “But the station, the station!” - what Safechuck describes has been mentioned in two separate books as being there in 1990. Another mentions the same being there in early 1993. Planning permission can be granted in arrears. And it’s easy to imagine Jackson flinging money at somebody to get it granted. Anyone who disbelieves their whole accounts based on that, never believed them in the first place.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,652 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Its impossible to be certain of anything based on the testimony of two guys with a long history of telling tall stories and lies.

    So yes, I will remain on the fence while there's inconsistencies in their stories. If I am leaning in any direction its that these guys are accomplished liars. And as more and more inconsistencies are uncovered each day, that becomes more obvious.

    What long history of tall tales and lies? Source? they are so accomplished that between them they estranged themselves from their own mothers, faked nervous breakdowns, walked away from lucrative jobs, developed alcohol and drug problems, and got diagnosed with PTSD and other mental health problems all to lay the basis for a lie they were planning on telling years down the line. That's literally what you have to believe to think they are lying. That's some next level stuff. I mean, it's possible I suppose but it's far more likely that the guy who obsessively slept with children and displayed much of the behaviour of a paedophile ,and has been accused by multiple kids of abuse, was actually a child molester.

    Ugh, I just can't anymore with this. Here's a tip - if anyone in real life confides something like this to you, don't try to poke holes in their story and accuse them of lying. Pretty much every case of historic child abuse is based on memories from a long time ago, not "hard evidence". it's normal for there to be small inconsistencies and misremberences, there's a lot more to their story than a train station.


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  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    Oh for the love of jaysus. :D As annoying and all as sligeach is in his MJ defence, at least he has the courage of his convictions.

    You’ve ably demonstrated on this very thread how easily little mistakes are made. First addressing me in a reply about a point that was made by another forum member. Secondly by not even knowing that Robson was the first of the two to take legal action. But you’re are nitpicking these two men’s accounts because they might get dates a bit wrong of events that happened in their formative years? “But the station, the station!” - what Safechuck describes has been mentioned in two separate books as being there in 1990. Another mentions the same being there in early 1993. Planning permission can be granted in arrears. And it’s easy to imagine Jackson flinging money at somebody to get it granted. Anyone who disbelieves their whole accounts based on that, never believed them in the first place.

    I can list countless inaccuracies and inconsistencies. They go on and on. I just gave you a flavour. There's plenty more out there if you search hard enough, by people who are more familiar with this than you or I, who've studied the sworn legal depositions by Safechuck, Robson and their mothers, and the blatant lies and contradictions of those sworn documents they then made in the documentary in order to make the story fit. Some of the lies would make the hair on your neck stand up, putting them and/or Jackson in locations they possibly couldn't have been. Any 3rd rate trial lawyer would have torn their testimony to shreds, and a judge would have thrown the case out. But hey when you have a sympathetic director who doesn't bother to research or ask tough questions, and make up dates on the spot you will always get a free ride to say what you like, unchallenged.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    What long history of tall tales and lies? Source? they are so accomplished that between them they estranged themselves from their own mothers, faked nervous breakdowns, walked away from lucrative jobs, developed alcohol and drug problems, and got diagnosed with PTSD and other mental health problems all to lay the basis for a lie they were planning on telling years down the line. That's literally what you have to believe to think they are lying. That's some next level stuff. I mean, it's possible I suppose but it's far more likely that the guy who obsessively slept with children and displayed much of the behaviour of a paedophile ,and has been accused by multiple kids of abuse, was actually a child molester.

    Ugh, I just can't anymore with this. Here's a tip - if anyone in real life confides something like this to you, don't try to poke holes in their story and accuse them of lying.

    Where to start?

    How about here?

    https://tvforum.uk/tvhome/finding-neverland-44366/page-4
    Since filing their lawsuit, both men have repeatedly changed their stories, frequently telling directly contradictory versions of the same supposed events. For example, Wade Robson has told at least four directly contradictory stories about the first time Jackson supposedly abused him.

    In the lawsuit, Robson was caught lying under oath so brazenly that the judge threw out his entire witness statement and said no rational juror could ever believe his account.

    Between 2012 and 2014, Robson wrote two drafts of an abuse memoir and tried unsuccessfully to sell them to publishers. Meanwhile, he lied under oath and said he’d never discussed his allegations with anyone except his lawyers. When the Jackson estate discovered he’d actually been shopping books, the court ordered him to produce the drafts as evidence. They revealed the story of his abuse had changed significantly from one draft to the next.

    Robson was also ordered to release his emails as evidence. He breached the order repeatedly, first by claiming they didn’t exist, then by simply refusing to hand them over. Then he redacted all the emails between himself and his family members and cited ‘attorney-client’ privilege, even though none of his family are attorneys.

    When he eventually complied with the court order and released the emails, they revealed that at the time he was constructing his lawsuit and abuse memoir, he was researching and emailing himself links to old tabloid newspaper stories about abuse allegations against Michael Jackson.

    The emails showed Robson found one particular story from the early 1990s which specifically named he and his mother. He emailed it to his mother and asked whether it was true. She replied, ‘Wow, none of that is true’. He then included it in his story anyway.

    Emails also revealed that throughout 2011/12, Robson was lobbying Jackson’s estate for a job directing and choreographing an official Michael Jackson tribute show in Las Vegas. His campaign to secure this role had included sending emails explaining that his amazing friendship with Jackson meant nobody was better qualified for the role than he was, and he was devoted to doing the best job he possibly could ‘for Michael’. After being told someone else had got the job, he suddenly claimed he’d been abused and filed a creditor’s claim against the estate for millions of dollars.
    Robson was also ordered to produce his diaries as evidence. In them, he’d written about how these allegations might rescue his failing career by making him ‘relatable and relevant’. He also wrote, ‘It’s time for me to get mine.’ When questioned under oath about what he’d meant when he wrote that, he refused to answer.

    Both men tell stories in the TV show which directly contradict stories told under oath in their lawsuit. In fact, they have continued to change their stories as recently as within the last week.

    For example, Jimmy Safechuck claims under oath in the lawsuit that he only remembered Jackson had abused him in 2013 when he turned on the TV and saw Robson. Yet in tonight’s TV show and interviews promoting it, he claims he knew he’d been abused in 2005 and thus, when asked to testify for Jackson’s defence ‘towards the end of the trial’, he refused to do so.

    But that’s a provable lie. Safechuck was never asked to testify for Jackson’s defence. The judge ruled long before the trial began that testimony could only be heard about certain children, and Safechuck was not one of them. All testimony about Safechuck was literally banned from the courtroom. So Jackson’s defence cannot have asked him to testify – and certainly not after the trial was already underway.

    Robson claimed in a BBC interview last week that Jackson had abused him ‘hundreds of times’. Yet his mother’s sworn testimony is that they went to Neverland roughly 14 times but Jackson was almost never there. She estimates the number of times they visited the ranch and he was actually there was four.

    Questioned about their financial motive, the men now say they don’t care about money and are only suing to embolden other abuse victims by holding the Jackson estate accountable. This is a provable lie. The lawsuit was originally filed under seal and Robson tried to extract a settlement from the estate with zero publicity. Only when the estate refused to pay a bean did he go public.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Wait, they are adamant certain things happened, but they can't remember the year or even within 3 years, despite the fact they were in their mid to late teens for some alleged events. They can't remember if the abuse ended in 1992 or 1994 or even later.

    FFS. Do you think we are all fools? They are certainly playing a lot of incredibly gullible people for fools. And I include Reed in that, whose either been fooled by these guys or collaborating in trying to fool people.

    All I need is a few more inconsistencies from these guys to know for certain they are bullsh*t artists.

    This is has a certain conspiracy theorist ring to it. “The sheep masses are all so stupid. WE are the clever ones, maaaan”. Professional TV and film critics love to be contrarian, yet with this documentary, the response has been overwhelmingly positive. I wouldn’t say 100% of critics rated it highly but a very, very high percentage. Are they all fools? Wow, how did a fool get a nowadays-very-precious staff writer job at the NYT/New Yorker/Washington Post/WSJ?

    And yeah right, like you didn’t already disbelieve them. :DYou’re the one who thinks us all fools clearly.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    Robson has claimed the first time the abuse happened was when his family went to the Grand Canyon while he was left behind in Neverland with Jackson.

    Turns out his mother swore otherwise twice.
    In another deposition in 2016, Wade Robson's mum again confirmed that her ‘whole family’, including Wade, had gone on the Grand Canyon trip, debunking a significant part of his story.


    https://www.nme.com/news/music/michael-jackson-biographer-exposes-wade-robson-james-safechucks-allegations-false-leaving-neverland-2469413


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    I have a feeling we haven't heard the end of the contradictions. No wonder Reed was scared sh*tless of letting the other side a right to reply in the "documentary".
    If he had nothing to be afraid of, he'd have included them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts



    Another messageboard?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    What long history of tall tales and lies? Source? they are so accomplished that between them they estranged themselves from their own mothers, faked nervous breakdowns, walked away from lucrative jobs, developed alcohol and drug problems, and got diagnosed with PTSD and other mental health problems all to lay the basis for a lie they were planning on telling years down the line. That's literally what you have to believe to think they are lying. That's some next level stuff. I mean, it's possible I suppose but it's far more likely that the guy who obsessively slept with children and displayed much of the behaviour of a paedophile ,and has been accused by multiple kids of abuse, was actually a child molester.

    Ugh, I just can't anymore with this. Here's a tip - if anyone in real life confides something like this to you, don't try to poke holes in their story and accuse them of lying. Pretty much every case of historic child abuse is based on memories from a long time ago, not "hard evidence". it's normal for there to be small inconsistencies and misremberences, there's a lot more to their story than a train station.

    These MJ threads tend to thin out to just a few posters discussing it. When a thread gets to that stage, it’s easy to believe that a lot more people think MJ is innocent than actually do. But on pretty much every news site or messageboard I’ve seen (apart from dedicated Jackson messageboards of course), almost every poll I’ve seen taken has had a large majority believing the two men. Which is really heartening. But, like, we’re all sheep, maaaan.

    On the second bolded bit, hell yes. A member of my extended family suffered CSA and I am so horrified at the idea of people trying to trip her up on dates and the clarity of her memories. Happily, she was believed. But I bet she wouldn’t have been able to give 100% correct details if probed.

    Finally, anyone who thinks that someone who openly says they want to help children couldn’t hurt them should read up about convicted sex offender Jerry Sandusky (convicted of rape and CSA) who started a charity for underprivileged children. He met his victims through the charity. This fascinating article talks about him and other offenders and how calculated they can be. www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/09/24/in-plain-view/amp


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    These MJ threads tend to thin out to just a few posters discussing it. When a thread gets to that stage, it’s easy to believe that a lot more people think MJ is innocent than actually do. But on pretty much every news site or messageboard I’ve seen (apart from dedicated Jackson messageboards of course), almost every poll I’ve seen taken has had a large majority believing the two men. Which is really heartening. But, like, we’re all sheep, maaaan.

    On the second bolded bit, hell yes. A member of my extended family suffered CSA and I am so horrified at the idea of people trying to trip her up on dates and the clarity of her memories. Happily, she was believed. But I bet she wouldn’t have been able to give 100% correct details if probed.

    Finally, anyone who thinks that someone who openly says they want to help children couldn’t hurt them should read up about convicted sex offender Jerry Sandusky (convicted of rape and CSA) who started a charity for underprivileged children. He met his victims through the charity. This fascinating article talks about him and other offenders and how calculated they can be. www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/09/24/in-plain-view/amp

    All this thread demonstrates is that if people want to believe something, they will use anything they can do strengthen their view, and ignore anything to the contrary.

    One thing you have to realise regarding the positive reception of the documentary is not necessarily that people believe the boys, or that they think Jackson is guilty. It's often an indication that Reed did a fantastic job of producing a compelling, convincing story.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    These MJ threads tend to thin out to just a few posters discussing it. When a thread gets to that stage, it’s easy to believe that a lot more people think MJ is innocent than actually do. But on pretty much every news site or messageboard I’ve seen (apart from dedicated Jackson messageboards of course), almost every poll I’ve seen taken has had a large majority believing the two men.

    Yeah that's pretty much how it is in my circle of friends too. And it's not because of the hours of documentary.
    It's because of the agreed fact that he slept with children in his bed unsupervised.

    So when people come forward and say, when I slept alone as a child in Michael Jacksons bedroom (again all agreed by everyone) he touched me inappropriately - well yikes, that's a pretty large possibility, what was everyone thinking allowing those children to be treated like that! Bull**** artists or not.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Basil3 wrote: »
    All this thread demonstrates is that if people want to believe something, they will use anything they can do strengthen their view, and ignore anything to the contrary.

    One thing you have to realise regarding the positive reception of the documentary is not necessarily that people believe the boys, or that they think Jackson is guilty. It's often an indication that Reed did a fantastic job of producing a compelling, convincing story.

    It sure does. :D
    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    Yeah that's pretty much how it is in my circle of friends too. And it's not because of the hours of documentary.
    It's because of the agreed fact that he slept with children in his bed unsupervised.

    So when people come forward and say, when I slept alone as a child in Michael Jacksons bedroom (again all agreed by everyone) he touched me inappropriately - well yikes, that's a pretty large possibility, what was everyone thinking allowing those children to be treated like that! Bull**** artists or not.

    I know, I don’t understand how some people won’t let that possibility near them. I’ve said I believe the men on balance. Of course I can’t say I believe them 100% but I do believe them. I just can’t understand people who think there is no way it's possible. I especially can’t believe that some people still trot out the “he had the mind of a child” dreck as if that’s likely. MJ doing inappropriate things with unrelated boys who shared his bed - impossible, MJ having a childlike mind - possible? Rrrrrrriggght. It’s most bizarre.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,749 ✭✭✭Flippyfloppy


    I can list countless inaccuracies and inconsistencies.

    You can but yet you don’t?

    The only inaccuracies and inconsistencies around here come from your posts


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    I know, I don’t understand how some people won’t let that possibility near them.

    Yeah I don't know. It's interesting anyway. Of say the three we are speaking about now, the two lads and Michael Jackson. I know none of them. I have no horse in the race so to speak, strangers to me. Maybe some fans see it differently, but I find it hard to imagine, with anyone I know in 'real life' harping on about train stations etc, as if they've some point to prove in relation to whether he touched them in bed when no one was there.

    I'm ok with the possibility that these guys are after a big pay day, are liars about a million and one things, and that one day in bed he touched their penis :) who knows.

    Rule one don't go to bed with kids if you don't want people thinking ya might have crossed the..whatever the line is after you cross the don't sleep with kids line.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,492 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    I'm ok with the possibility that these guys are after a big pay day, are liars about a million and one things, and that one day in bed he touched their penis :) who knows.

    That to me is absolute horrific, if "just" that happened I hope they sink the Jackson estate into oblivion and anyone implicated in it that who is still alive should do some hard time and lots of it.

    Similarly though if this is just a grift that simply snow balled to where we are now, I hope they are both done for extortion and spend a significant amount of their lives in prison.

    But like I keep saying, this is only the start, they have made some of the most serious allegations you can against people who are still walking around, there is years left to run on this.

    Sooner or later it is going to end up in court, whether that be civil or criminal people are going to have to start answering questions under oath.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    Boggles wrote: »
    That to me is absolute horrific, if "just" that happened I hope they sink the Jackson estate into oblivion and anyone implicated in it that who is still alive should do some hard time and lots of it.

    I'm with you dude, I'm even ahead of you maybe? - I think the fact he slept with them at all is horrific.

    But is so tough in cases of sexual abuse.

    I think abuse survivors get a lot from speaking up anyway, and then being supported. And they seem to be getting a lot of support from other abuse survivors.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,639 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde




    Pretty sure that's a jet and the bottles are used to avoid spillage. Sippy Cups are used on a lot of commercial airlines even to this day, I guess they used bottles to compensate for not having correct Sippy Cups.



    Yep same clothes, was a jet, bottles to avoid spillage.

    hqdefault.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    Yeah I don't know. It's interesting anyway. Of say the three we are speaking about now, the two lads and Michael Jackson. I know none of them. I have no horse in the race so to speak, strangers to me. Maybe some fans see it differently, but I find it hard to imagine, with anyone I know in 'real life' harping on about train stations etc, as if they've some point to prove in relation to whether he touched them in bed when no one was there.

    I'm ok with the possibility that these guys are after a big pay day, are liars about a million and one things, and that one day in bed he touched their penis :) who knows.

    Rule one don't go to bed with kids if you don't want people thinking ya might have crossed the..whatever the line is after you cross the don't sleep with kids line.

    I’m the same. Like some of MJ’s music, happily shaked my arse to a good few of his songs on dancefloors down the years, have no reason to take against him, think he was talented and intelligent. I have no reason to have a grudge against him.

    I have actually met ardent MJ defenders in real life. They’re... very defensive. And intense. They take it all very personally, which is odd. As I’ve said the best way to deal with them is by not really saying anything much in return. They know you don’t agree but you’ve given them nothing to grab onto. But I could easily imagine these real life folk going on about train stations and permits. I have to wonder if they’d be demanding such fine details if a loved one belonging to them made similar accusations about somebody?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,042 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    The main thing I would ask people who are generally interested in this is

    Google Omer Bhatti

    And

    Google Jackson family cover up.

    The Jackson family engaged in a huge cover up from the late 70s until mickeys drug overdose. All for money.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,639 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    https://twitter.com/TheReal_ELewis/status/1101767789340053505?s=20


    The bottle thing is weird but the guy tweeting about that says he insisted he use it, is he just assuming or is it fact? :pac:


    Funny he said it was a van, it was clearly a jet. Memories fade, another example here.
    Here is plane, notice the curtains.
    cd4bc9c74010d05cfca91a190d01471f.jpg


    There is another picture of Jackson on same bed with the curtains open, can see the sky and clouds out side. Can't find that pic, although I looked at it today.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,639 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    MARYNARALOZKO-ERA_THRILLER.jpg

    Found it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭BBFAN


    Here is an actual weirdo/creepy guy who loves to rub his hands all over kids. You've seen 1000's of videos of michael with kids, have you seen anything like what this guy is doing? No, you will not.
    And this guy could be president. This is a pervert hiding in place sight. Seems Michael is guilty on zero evidence.






    This post kind of backfires on you if you put it in another way.

    If any president of the USA or prospective president admitted to sleeping in a bed with teenage boys on regular basis do you think for one minute they wouldn't be torn apart and spit out??????


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