Why does Ireland lack a culinary heritage?

Edgware · 03-04-2019 09:54PM

An oul batter burger with chips. Cant go wrong

Carawaystick · 03-04-2019 09:56PM

Flowery spuds and butter
Soda bread
Black pudding
xmas pudding
mountain lamb

The Rape of Lucretia · 03-04-2019 09:58PM

Poor climate + Poor people = Poor Culinary Heritage

Harry Palmr · 03-04-2019 09:59PM

800 years living in ditches and eating moss is why.

Grandeeod · 03-04-2019 09:59PM

We have a culinary heritage, but our restaurants/pubs can't be arsed making it outside of mad tourist traps. 16 quid for a coddle in Dublin? Feck off! Bacon and cabbage for a similar price? Good luck! Our traditional foods are very simple and we should be offering them to locals and visitors at Asian street food prices in Asia. Traditional Irish food is lovely. Perhaps we have become too caught up our own holes with foreign dishes before exploring the goodness of out own.

I eat an international diet, but love many traditional Irish dishes.

SEPT 23 1989 · 03-04-2019 10:01PM

RASHERS and sausages black and white pudding real butter on toast and tea

Followed by a few creamy pints and a carvery

Sure what more could a man ask for?

grindle · 03-04-2019 10:06PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

16 quid for a coddle in Dublin? Feck off! Bacon and cabbage for a similar price? Good luck! Our traditional foods are very simple and we should be offering them to locals and visitors at Asian street food prices in Asia.

Not really how production costs and economies work. Would agree that they should be sold for the price of typical Asian street food in Ireland, so €6-€12? Seems fair for an easy meal to make with low cost ingredients - although can't be made on-command like Asian street food. Maybe wastage is where the extra money comes in.

Water John · 03-04-2019 10:08PM

Haven't read this but have often watched Regina on TV:
https://www.amazon.com/Little-History-Irish-Food/dp/0717133788

pwurple · 03-04-2019 10:15PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Poor climate + Poor people = Poor Culinary Heritage

You’re joking, is it?. First of all, poverty breeds the great cuisines, because it forces inventiveness.

Secondly, We have an ideal climate for food. Look at our dairy, all grass fed, same with most of our livestock. Huge array of vegetables, fruit, mushrooms.
Blackberries alone! Food of the gods, growing in frikken ditches by the road.

Irish cheeses, butter, meats, honey, fish. Wild herbs. Seaweed. Irish craft butchery is just one of the best food crafts we have.
Irish drinks! Beers, whiskey, spirits.

Genuinely think Irish food is among the best in the world and we should be so proud of our cultural heritage here.

Paddy Cow · 03-04-2019 10:20PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

800 years living in ditches and eating moss is why.

That's not too far from the truth. Up until relatively recently, Ireland was a very poor place and staying alive was an achievement. Houses had a pot that hung from a hook over the fire and everything was literally boiled in it, hence all our stews. We weren't very multicultural back then and when we got electricity and cookers, dinner was potatoes, meat and two veg. It was probably around the 80's/90's that we started diversifying.

I grew up with potatoes, meat and two veg (80's child). When my sister went to secondary school in the early 90's she started to learn more. Lasagna and spaghetti bolognese went down a treat but she pushed it too far with sweat and sour rice :pac: I still can't eat that to this day

I'm from rural Ireland though so my urban brethren probably had a culinary revolution earlier than that. Curry sauce was a great introduction to our palate. You can't beat curry cheese chips and I think it's uniquely Irish, so that's one contribution we've made to the world :P Spice bags seem pretty popular now as well but I don't like them.

Paddy Cow · 03-04-2019 10:28PM

I remember coming across a Youtube video about a traditional Irish dish "corned beef and cabbage". I don't even like bacon and cabbage so corned beef and cabbage sounded even worse. Apparently when the Irish immigrants went to America, they couldn't afford bacon and used the cheaper substitute corned beef. Any Irish Americans who looked for that when they visited the home country would be very confused!

Harry Palmr · 03-04-2019 10:29PM

Hotel cuisine for years was overcooked dry meat and boiled to oblivion vegetable sludge.

pwurple · 03-04-2019 10:29PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The RTE series called lords and ladles documents a few hundred years of Irish culinary history. Tellingly though it’s mostly set in elite aristocratic houses, since they were the ones eating.

Or, possibly, they were recording it in written shopping bills, menus etc, that we still have from old houses. It is far easier to recreate something when you have written artifacts. Just because you don’t have evidence of what people were eating, doesn’t mean they were not eating.

Looking at it another way, we do have some records of non aristocrats. Maybe joyce? No title etc, middle income family. Alcoholic father, Christian brothers school. An ordinary enough background. The whole of Ulysses is threaded with food and is a record of our heritage. From olives to innards. The chapter Lestrygonians is written through food language, Irish food in the 1920’s.

Tacklebox · 03-04-2019 10:30PM

As a gardener I can honestly say on a cold day outside working with the elements, and you come in out of the cold.

There's nothing like a honey glazed bacon and cabbage, and buttery potatoes.it's a good choice for me.

Kippers and any smoked fish is also good.

Looking back I remember having smoked haddock on a Friday, my mum used to dish it up
Our weekly quota of fish.
I always enjoyed that

paulbok · 03-04-2019 10:30PM

The humble spice bag

03-04-2019 10:32PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

she pushed it too far with sweat and sour rice :pac: I still can't eat that to this day

I think she read the recipe wrong there. No wonder you werent having any of it!

:D:D:D:D

Odhinn · 03-04-2019 10:32PM

jetsonx wrote: »

Why does Ireland lack a culinary heritage?

I mean we probably have some of the finest ingredients in the world but when visitors here and ask "what's that national dish?", is "bacon and cabbage" really the answer? Thinking harder about it, you might be able to come up with something like "boxty". But ironically both of these dishes are rarely even eaten in modern Ireland.

We cannot use poverty as an excuse because anyone who has traveled to poorer regions of the world knows that some of their foods are amazingly diverse not to mention tasty. We cannot use industrialisation as an excuse because Ireland was never really an industrial nation.

So can anyone shed some light on why Ireland has no culinary heritage?

You didn't do history in school, I take it.

Odhinn · 03-04-2019 10:33PM

paulbok wrote: »

The humble spice bag

The batter burger and the spice burger.

odyssey06 · 03-04-2019 10:33PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I remember coming across a Youtube video about a traditional Irish dish "corned beef and cabbage". I don't even like bacon and cabbage so corned beef and cabbage sounded even worse. Apparently when the Irish immigrants went to America, they couldn't afford bacon and used the cheaper substitute corned beef. Any Irish Americans who looked for that when they visited the home country would be very confused!

You can get Corned beef - a joint of beef not the stuff in a tin - aint cheap in Dunnes but is readily available.
I like it when it crumbles and you mix it into mash potatoes and butter.

It was shipped out from Ireland to feed sailors and slaves on caribbean plantations. The corns of salt meant it lasted well in an era without fridges.

The Rape of Lucretia · 03-04-2019 10:34PM

pwurple wrote: »

You’re joking, is it?. First of all, poverty breeds the great cuisines, because it forces inventiveness.

Secondly, We have an ideal climate for food. Look at our dairy, all grass fed, same with most of our livestock. Huge array of vegetables, fruit, mushrooms.
Blackberries alone! Food of the gods, growing in frikken ditches by the road.

Irish cheeses, butter, meats, honey, fish. Wild herbs. Seaweed. Irish craft butchery is just one of the best food crafts we have.
Irish drinks! Beers, whiskey, spirits.

Genuinely think Irish food is among the best in the world and we should be so proud of our cultural heritage here.

Fair enough.
Its the people then. No skill, no imagination, no creativity, no refined tastes, too lazy to put effort into using the fine ingredients to enhance the quality of their lives and enjoyment of food.

Odhinn · 03-04-2019 10:35PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Fair enough.
Its the people then. No skill, no imagination, no creativity, no refined tastes, too lazy to put effort into using the fine ingredients to enhance the quality of their lives and enjoyment of food.

As I've said on other threads - if you were ever funny, that time is long gone.

paulbok · 03-04-2019 10:36PM

Odhinn wrote: »

The batter burger and the spice burger.

Never had either, and am not shy of going to a chipper.
Are they not more of a Dublin thing, like the fascination with Ray and chips?

Odhinn · 03-04-2019 10:39PM

paulbok wrote: »

Never had either, and am not shy of going to a chipper.
Are they not more of a Dublin thing, like the fascination with Ray and chips?

....there's things outside dublin???

Tacklebox · 03-04-2019 10:42PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Fair enough.
Its the people then. No skill, no imagination, no creativity, no refined tastes, too lazy to put effort into using the fine ingredients to enhance the quality of their lives and enjoyment of food.

It's up to the people to make up their own mind's in what they like to eat, their presentation and taste's.

Some just like plain food, their taste buds can be quite sensitive.

Comparing others to their bag of groceries and saying they're not enhancing their lives is a bit daft.

Tacklebox · 03-04-2019 10:43PM

paulbok wrote: »

Never had either, and am not shy of going to a chipper.
Are they not more of a Dublin thing, like the fascination with Ray and chips?

Ray wings tastes like piss to be honest, they need to be hung up in a dry shed for a day or two, or else you're eating their piss.

Day Lewin · 03-04-2019 10:51PM

Darina Allen's book on Traditional Irish cooking is a mine of information, and some of the recipes and methods are hundreds of years old.
Of course, like in most countries, the rich had access to a greater range of materials than the peasantry.
But poor people had their own foods too...and the locally-produced cheap foods had to be cooked, often needing greater care than tender and rich foods.
Nettle soup, watercress, shellfish, milk products, sheep and goat meat, salted pig-meat, milk and butter in dozens of forms, apples and plums, oatmeal and whiskey...
there is lots to be discovered if you look. Ask your Granny or Great-granny...and write it down!

I've tried cooking bread in a pot-oven, and using a griddle with an open fire. Not as easy as it looks!

Tacklebox · 03-04-2019 10:57PM

Day Lewin wrote: »

Darina Allen's book on Traditional Irish cooking is a mine of information, and some of the recipes and methods are hundreds of years old.
Of course, like in most countries, the rich had access to a greater range of materials than the peasantry.
But poor people had their own foods too...and the locally-produced cheap foods had to be cooked, often needing greater care than tender and rich foods.
Nettle soup, watercress, shellfish, milk products, sheep and goat meat, salted pig-meat, milk and butter in dozens of forms, apples and plums, oatmeal and whiskey...
there is lots to be discovered if you look. Ask your Granny or Great-granny...and write it down!

I've tried cooking bread in a pot-oven, and using a griddle with an open fire. Not as easy as it looks!

The best demonstration I've seen the griddle bread baked was by a bean án tí in Bunratty Castle and Folk park.

It's done by the turf fire in a metal container. with a cover on it, and the container is turned around frequently.

It takes a long time, but anything cooked by the open fire is absolutely delicious.

The temperature and timing is absolutely perfect, you just need time patience to get it right.

MrMusician18 · 03-04-2019 11:04PM

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

The Irish in general were never healthy eaters, when I see what my parents generation eat and how they cook it I wonder how so many of them are still with us

Not actually true. When foreigners visited Ireland in the 19C, famine times aside, they were generally surprised at how well nourished the peasantry looked. The potato is almost the complete meal, and combined with some oatmeal and dairy it's a wholesome if somewhat boring diet.

Paddy Cow · 03-04-2019 11:04PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

You can get Corned beef - a joint of beef not the stuff in a tin - aint cheap in Dunnes but is readily available.
I like it when it crumbles and you mix it into mash potatoes and butter.

It was shipped out from Ireland to feed sailors and slaves on caribbean plantations. The corns of salt meant it lasted well in an era without fridges.

I understand that. My mother tried making us corned beef sandwiches for lunch instead of the more expensive ham but to be honest, we preferred jam sandwiches to that :pac: I was just saying that somehow in Irish American culture "corned beef and cabbage" became a traditional Irish dish, when really it's not at all.

Paddy Cow · 03-04-2019 11:06PM

mistersifter wrote: »

I think she read the recipe wrong there. No wonder you werent having any of it! :D:D:D:D

She did put chicken in it but we weren't used to the flavours and I felt sorry for her because she put so much effort into it but we just couldn't eat it

Why does Ireland lack a culinary heritage?

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