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Getting a mortgage with 2 dependants

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  • 29-03-2019 12:42am
    #1
    Gee_G
    Registered Users Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭


    Ok so this might sound like a ridiculous question but are there any banks/buildinf society's etc that are favourable to giving mortgages to a couple with two dependants?
    If we put into a mortgage calculator that we have no children we are approved in principle for €50k more than when we put in our two dependants. €50k!! (We don't have childcare costs!)
    I was advised to look into the Rebuilding Ireland Home loan but the square footage of our house is too big.


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    #2
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,155 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    Went through this myself it had a dramatic effect on what we could borrow we had very high childcare costs as well and only barely got the house we wanted in the end. My wife was self employed to boot which further reduced it.

    The policy is too restrictive imo and a bit of common sense should be used when the applicant can clearly and comfortably afford the repayments.

    I don’t know of any bank that is more favourable to couples with kids to answer your question. Best of luck


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    #3
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,352 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    I’ve three kids and because my wife is a stay at home wife the bank reckon I’ve 4 dependants.

    My mortgages is less about 2.5 tines my salary but I can’t get move mortgage yet alone house as they wont give me the one I have.

    My LTV is about 30%


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    #4
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,919 ✭✭✭kirving


    The_Honeybadger wrote: »
    clearly and comfortably afford the repayments.

    Yeah, you might be fine for a while. Until the grandparent who minds the kids can't do it any longer due to inevitable health issues, or the kids go to college in another city.

    That restrictions are in place for very good reason.


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    #5
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,155 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    Yeah, you might be fine for a while. Until the grandparent who minds the kids can't do it any longer due to inevitable health issues, or the kids go to college in another city.

    That restrictions are in place for very good reason.

    I understand the reasons for the restrictions but how many childless couples get a mortgage and go off and have 2-3-4 kids? I know lots of people like that.

    In my case I had no grandparent looking after kids and was at the peak of what childcare was going to ever be, indeed it has reduced massively now they are all in school. I also had a low LTV and was saving twice the proposed monthly mortgage while paying rent. The advisor in the local branch agreed the amount we qualified for was ridiculous in the circumstances but her hands were tied by this formula they had to adhere to. It worked out ok in my case in the end.


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    #6
    xalot
    Registered Users Posts: 1,092 ✭✭✭xalot


    Yeah it has a massive impact, we could only get a mortgage of 3 times with one provider, the rest would only give us 2.5 times. Luckily we had over 20% of a deposit.


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    #7
    theteal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭theteal


    Any local brokers able to help?

    We just had the one child when we were buying but looking back, our broker worked wonders in getting us what we needed, there was a lot of negotiating with the bank. This was UK though so I don't know how that works back home.


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    #8
    maxsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭maxsmum


    How does the bank know how many dependants you have?
    Hypothetically. If you've no creche fees coming out of your account every month for example.
    You could say two now, and your partner could be 8 months pregnant with triplets and the bank doesn't know.
    You could say you've none and I'm not sure they'd know (although this would be lying).
    Obviously you'd have to be very careful of your repayment capacity.


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    #9
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,352 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    maxsmum wrote: »
    How does the bank know how many dependants you have?
    Hypothetically. If you've no creche fees coming out of your account every month for example.
    You could say two now, and your partner could be 8 months pregnant with triplets and the bank doesn't know.
    You could say you've none and I'm not sure they'd know (although this would be lying).
    Obviously you'd have to be very careful of your repayment capacity.

    They’ll can see the child benefits hitting the bank.

    Although to be honest I think they just take your word


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    #10
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,483 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    maxsmum wrote: »
    How does the bank know how many dependants you have?
    Hypothetically. If you've no creche fees coming out of your account every month for example.
    You could say two now, and your partner could be 8 months pregnant with triplets and the bank doesn't know.
    You could say you've none and I'm not sure they'd know (although this would be lying).
    Obviously you'd have to be very careful of your repayment capacity.

    It would be fraud.


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    #11
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,296 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    ted1 wrote: »
    I’ve three kids and because my wife is a stay at home wife the bank reckon I’ve 4 dependants.

    My mortgages is less about 2.5 tines my salary but I can’t get move mortgage yet alone house as they wont give me the one I have.

    My LTV is about 30%

    but you do have 4 dependents

    there's no 'reckons' about it


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    #12
    alwald
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭alwald


    Gee_G wrote:
    I was advised to look into the Rebuilding Ireland Home loan.

    I am curious to know too so I entered some random figures in their calculator with and without dependants and compared them to other banks and it appears that they offer less than banks.

    Is their calculator accurate?


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    #13
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,352 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    lawred2 wrote: »
    but you do have 4 dependents

    there's no 'reckons' about it

    I’ve way more than 4, there’s s dozen or so baristas around south Dublin that are dependant on my wife making her daily appearance!!


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    #14
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,296 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    ted1 wrote: »
    I’ve way more than 4, there’s s dozen or so baristas around south Dublin that are dependant on my wife making her daily appearance!!

    :D


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    #15
    maxsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭maxsmum


    ted1 wrote: »
    They’ll can see the child benefits hitting the bank.

    Although to be honest I think they just take your word

    Our creche fees and child benefit don't Appear anywhere on our bank account. It just occurred to me I doubt the bank would know. Although it would be dishonest not to declare a child I agree. Not sure it would be fraud? As in a criminal offence?


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    #16
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,581 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Probably fraud but probably unlikely to be detected.
    Of course any fraud is not to be advocated on this board.


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    #17
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,296 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    maxsmum wrote: »
    Our creche fees and child benefit don't Appear anywhere on our bank account. It just occurred to me I doubt the bank would know. Although it would be dishonest not to declare a child I agree. Not sure it would be fraud? As in a criminal offence?

    to be correct - they don't appear on the bank statements you're presenting to the bank..

    but surely there must be payments out to that account from the account statements you're presenting?

    And if there are - they will be questioned and you'll have to furnish statements for that account as well.


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    #18
    maxsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭maxsmum


    lawred2 wrote: »
    to be correct - they don't appear on the bank statements you're presenting to the bank..

    but surely there must be payments out to that account from the account statements you're presenting?

    And if there are - they will be questioned and you'll have to furnish statements for that account as well.

    In my case child benefit always went to a state savings account for the child so never hit my account. Creche is paid via Revolut. We recently had a mortgage application and did declare the child but just reading this thread, I'm not sure the bank would ever have known different. In circumstances where the OP doesn't have childcare fees etc and feels they would manage repayments comfortably is the bank being reasonable applying a blanket penalty for dependants?


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    #19
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,296 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    maxsmum wrote: »
    In my case child benefit always went to a state savings account for the child so never hit my account. Creche is paid via Revolut. We recently had a mortgage application and did declare the child but just reading this thread, I'm not sure the bank would ever have known different. In circumstances where the OP doesn't have childcare fees etc and feels they would manage repayments comfortably is the bank being reasonable applying a blanket penalty for dependants?

    but you must have been paying sizeable amounts into Revolut?

    and I've heard banks are now looking for statements from Revolut.


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    #20
    august12
    Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭august12


    lawred2 wrote:
    and I've heard banks are now looking for statements from Revolut.


    Yes they look for Revolut statements, anything unusual going out of your account to another account will be queried.


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    #21
    zreba
    Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭zreba


    It's a mortgage fraud you're discussing here. A criminal offence.


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    #22
    PCros
    Registered Users Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭PCros


    The_Honeybadger wrote: »
    I understand the reasons for the restrictions but how many childless couples get a mortgage and go off and have 2-3-4 kids? I know lots of people like that.

    Can anyone comment on this as I've always wondered about it.

    Couple A has 2 kids and gets €50k less.
    Couple B has no kids, gets €50k more but will have 2 kids in 2 years.

    Wheres the common sense?


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    #23
    irelandrover
    Registered Users Posts: 3,704 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    PCros wrote: »
    Can anyone comment on this as I've always wondered about it.

    Couple A has 2 kids and gets €50k less.
    Couple B has no kids, gets €50k more but will have 2 kids in 2 years.

    Wheres the common sense?

    One couple has 2 kids when applying and the other has none.
    The bank doesnt base its offer on what it guesses happens in the future


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    #24
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,296 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    PCros wrote: »
    Can anyone comment on this as I've always wondered about it.

    Couple A has 2 kids and gets €50k less.
    Couple B has no kids, gets €50k more but will have 2 kids in 2 years.

    Wheres the common sense?

    common sense wouldn't be expecting banks to tell the future anyway


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    #25
    PCros
    Registered Users Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭PCros


    irelandrover wrote: »
    One couple has 2 kids when applying and the other has none.
    The bank doesnt base its offer on what it guesses happens in the future

    I still think its a bit flawed and it should be included into the overall amount of the loan to begin with for everyone.

    It would be an interesting statistic to know how many couples have children pre/post mortgage application.


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    #26
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,483 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Pretty much the same as any change in circumstances.

    You could have your salary slashed.
    You could get sacked.
    You could be made redundant.
    You could win the lottery.
    You could end up in prison.

    Bank can only go on the present status.


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    #27
    irelandrover
    Registered Users Posts: 3,704 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    PCros wrote: »
    I still think its a bit flawed and it should be included into the overall amount of the loan to begin with for everyone.

    It would be an interesting statistic to know how many couples have children pre/post mortgage application.

    How many kids would you assume everyone would have?


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    #28
    PCros
    Registered Users Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭PCros


    That's a fair enough point.


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    #29
    PCros
    Registered Users Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭PCros


    irelandrover wrote: »
    How many kids would you assume everyone would have?

    I have no idea hence it would be an interesting to know.


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    #30
    zreba
    Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭zreba


    PCros wrote: »
    Can anyone comment on this as I've always wondered about it.

    Couple A has 2 kids and gets €50k less.
    Couple B has no kids, gets €50k more but will have 2 kids in 2 years.

    Wheres the common sense?

    How do you know the Couple B will have 2 kids in 2 years? Couple's A costs are material, couple's B costs are potential and only a risk at this stage (may not happen). Banks can estimate the risks as they wish.


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    #31
    Gee_G
    Registered Users Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Gee_G


    Thank you all for your replies.
    We are dealing with a broker at the moment after being told by a bank that they would only give us less than half the value of the house we want to buy. It just seems a bit bizarre to me, I understand dependants obviously do put a reasonable strain on finances but to make a €50k difference is a bit much considering it's only a small mortgage we're looking for (we live in the country).
    Anyway, I guess it's back to the drawing board for a while!


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