Mass shooting New Zealand Mosque - MOD NOTE POST #1

Patty Hearst · 27-03-2019 5:49pm

batgoat wrote: »

There's also Muslims who came out in support of Jewish people last year in relation to the Synagogue attack. Same for Jewish people supporting the Muslim community at the moment. You're desperately attempting to tar a large proportion of Muslims as antisemitic. Meanwhile it seems like you're dealing with your own bigotry.

LOL I haven't 'desperately' attempted to do Jack sh*t

Quit with the pathetic misrepresentation (clearly an avowed tactic here)

I just posted a link to a twitter account of a person who writes extensively about the dangers of Antisemitism

Its an interesting addition to the story of the incident, or do you decide which aspects of the story we are allowed to discuss?

jmayo · 27-03-2019 6:08pm

Patty Hearst wrote: »

https://twitter.com/johnpaulpagano/status/1110579872932552706

Bizzaro land, New Zealand Mosque leader claims Mossad is behind attack

This guy needs to be challenged on this shyte and especially from people in politics and indeed fellow muslims.

Don't ever see it happening.

batgoat wrote: »

There's also Muslims who came out in support of Jewish people last year in relation to the Synagogue attack. Same for Jewish people supporting the Muslim community at the moment. You're desperately attempting to tar a large proportion of Muslims as antisemitic. Meanwhile it seems like you're dealing with your own bigotry.

Would these be like that infamous CNN filmed protest ?

A large proportion of muslims are very much anti Israeli, not sure if you can extrapolate that as antisemitism ?

I have encountered some in the past that equated Jews anywhere with Israel.

James Brown · 27-03-2019 6:24pm

jmayo wrote: »

This guy needs to be challenged on this shyte and especially from people in politics and indeed fellow muslims.

Don't ever see it happening.

Would these be like that infamous CNN filmed protest ?

A large proportion of muslims are very much anti Israeli, not sure if you can extrapolate that as antisemitism ?

I have encountered some in the past that equated Jews anywhere with Israel.

A large portion of Muslims love Jews. (if we're just throwing randoms out here).

Thankfully decent people of both faiths came to the aid of each other after terror attacks by those zany but forgivable white Christians who were sweet kids that took a bad turn due to no fault of their own, 'cept maybe video games.

That's actually an Israeli government tactic. If you complain about Israel you're an antisemite.

27-03-2019 7:13pm

Matt Barrett wrote:

That's actually an Israeli government tactic. If you complain about Israel you're an antisemite.

Is that the same tactic that paints you as an ialamaphobe if you are critical of Islam?

James Brown · 27-03-2019 7:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Is that the same tactic that paints you as an ialamaphobe if you are critical of Islam?

No. Completely different things.

Israel is a state with a political ideology that carries out actions as Israel. Judaism is a religious belief. Therefore criticising the Israeli state is just that.

Criticising Islam is not islamaphobia IMO.
Islamophobia is the fear of all things Islam I believe. Although often accompanied by willful ignorance and hate, that would be more bigotry than Islamophobia, IMO.

monreader · 27-03-2019 7:44pm

Just nearly 2 weeks on and I am still in shock that this event has occurred in this beautiful city. A sense of normality is slowly returning to the city, but everyday I drive past the smaller mosque and seeing the armed police still outside guarding it, it makes me quite emotional. The memorial service planned for tomorrow in Hagley Park will be a nice occasion.

Ash.J.Williams · 27-03-2019 7:45pm

Patty Hearst wrote: »

LOL I haven't 'desperately' attempted to do Jack sh*t

Quit with the pathetic misrepresentation (clearly an avowed tactic here)

I just posted a link to a twitter account of a person who writes extensively about the dangers of Antisemitism

Its an interesting addition to the story of the incident, or do you decide which aspects of the story we are allowed to discuss?

welcome to boards

jmayo · 27-03-2019 8:08pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

A large portion of Muslims love Jews. (if we're just throwing randoms out here).

I think you will find my assertion of the opposite to probably be a bit more nearer the truth in the real world. :rolleyes:
Hell it might actually be the reason that ever since 1948 the Jewish population has fallen drastically in the Arab and muslim countries.

Of the approx. 900,000 Jews that left Arab and muslim countries around 2/3 settled in Israel.

In 1900 there were 50,000 Jews in Bagdad, today there is a handful.
I wonder why ???

Iran with probably the largest Jewish community in the muslim world, did see and exodus of around 60,000 between 1978 and 2000.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Thankfully decent people of both faiths came to the aid of each other after terror attacks by those zany but forgivable white Christians who were sweet kids that took a bad turn due to no fault of their own, 'cept maybe video games.

I can't be ars*d debating this type of shyte.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That's actually an Israeli government tactic. If you complain about Israel you're an antisemite.

Yeah of course it is all the fault of Israel. :rolleyes:

batgoat · 27-03-2019 8:12pm

Patty Hearst wrote: »

LOL I haven't 'desperately' attempted to do Jack sh*t

Quit with the pathetic misrepresentation (clearly an avowed tactic here)

I just posted a link to a twitter account of a person who writes extensively about the dangers of Antisemitism

Its an interesting addition to the story of the incident, or do you decide which aspects of the story we are allowed to discuss?

And you seem to be ignoring that both communities have supported each other during significant events on both sides. Like I know Catholic priests with warped anti semitic views as well.

Boggles · 27-03-2019 8:16pm

jmayo wrote: »

I think you will find my assertion of the opposite to probably be a bit more nearer the truth in the real world. :rolleyes:
Hell it might actually be the reason that ever since 1948 the Jewish population has fallen drastically in the Arab and muslim countries.

Of the approx. 900,000 Jews that left Arab and muslim countries around 2/3 settled in Israel.

Or maybe it was because Israel was formed in 1948.

Just a guess like.

jmayo · 27-03-2019 8:27pm

Boggles wrote: »

Or maybe it was because Israel was formed in 1948.

Just a guess like.

So care to explain the murder of 180 Jews and injuring of 700 Jews in Iraq in 1941 ?

Or how in 1947 12 Jews including 8 children were killed in Damascus ?

Antisemitism has long existed in muslim world, just like in christian world.
Now to be fair in fact some of the increase in antisemitism in muslim world in 20th century was down to the christian world.

And yes the creation of Israel has saw it massively increase in muslim world.

I believe the horrors of WWII has saw it massively decrease in the Western christian world.

Boggles · 27-03-2019 8:29pm

jmayo wrote: »

So care to explain the murder of 180 Jews and injuring of 700 Jews in Iraq in 1941 ?
.

No.

You mused why vast amounts of Jews only started moving to Israel in 1948, I pointed out it was created in 1948.

Simples.

riffmongous · 27-03-2019 9:21pm

The head of the Identitarians in Austria is being investigated for possible links to the shooter after officials flagged 'larger than usual' donation made last year. He was known to have travelled to Austria just a few months ago too. It's maybe not that interesting at first glance but the Identitarians links to the far right FPÖ party have come under more and more scrutiny since the latter came into power recently, and got control of the Inner Ministry.

https://kurier.at/chronik/oesterreich/christchurch-ministerium-bestaetigt-razzia-bei-identitaerem-sellner/400446901

Danzy · 27-03-2019 10:16pm

Boggles wrote: »

No.

You mused why vast amounts of Jews only started moving to Israel in 1948, I pointed out it was created in 1948.

Simples.

It was hardly voluntary.

Simples.

I suspect you know that though.

Jews have as much rights as you or I.

27-03-2019 10:54pm

“Having an intellectual conversation about the comprehensive state of the Islamic movement on a global scale got me fired,” he said. “I didn’t talk much about the Christchurch shooting, but that’s how the conversation started.”

Mr Knight-Wagener said while talking about the shooting he digressed to mention what he had seen in news reports about the behaviour of Muslims living in the UK that “had been shown to be violent and destructive”.

“I elaborated on the current state of the UK in regards to the growing Islamic community and the crimes against the people in these communities,” he said. “I said no swear words and was not abusive or aggressive in my manner. I was simply stating facts ... which no one wanted to hear obviously.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/new-zealand-tradie-sacked-for-muslim-comments/news-story/fe0172aceeae64508debcd928e8f66cb

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/3/27/18284174/facebook-ban-white-nationalist-separatist-content

Facebook to ban'white supremacist' stuff, cool no problem just who gets to define what is and isn't supremacist......

batgoat · 27-03-2019 11:20pm

Facebook tends to be very lax in terms of removing any content so it's more likely that the more extreme end gets removed and you'll still get loads of white supremacists. Do I have any issue with banning them? I don't care, they are literally the scum of the earth. They can feel free to go to Gab or Stormfront or where ever.. I'm not okay with how certain people seem intent on normalising white supremacy.

In relation to that man losing his job. If I was in a New Zealand workplace and heard that shortly after the massacre of fifty people, I would complain. It's grossly insensitive and inappropriate for the workplace. For all he knows, colleagues were related to or knew the victims. Cop the **** on and don't be a dick in work.

So you really have not achieved some amazing expose of downtrodden white supremacists etc...

Call Me Jimmy · 28-03-2019 12:03am

Boggles wrote: »

Prove your Thesis.

What tangible real life difficulties or effects have occurred in combating the spread of any extremist violent propaganda and how does that outweigh someone walking into a building and blowing up a bunch of children for instance?

We haven't done it enough in the west for long enough to see anything tangible, can only look at other countries where it really caught on, they hasn't went so good for Russia, NK, Chinese populations. There will always be reasons to centralise control of information, I'm not happy for the government to decide punishable by law what is 'extremist' nor what is 'violent propaganda' as we've seen with the quagmire of hate speech, the inconsistencies will be truly absurd.

I also don't think its moral to jail someone for reading (or possessing) text. As part of another crime I've no problem with it being used as circumstantial evidence, but on its own? I don't think it should be possible.

Hillary2020 · 28-03-2019 12:19am

Nominally I would be for free speech
However I believe censoring the manifesto is the correct move in this situation
I read 50 pages of it and it is a radicalising document
Ireland should ban it too

Wibbs · 28-03-2019 1:26am

Hillary2020 wrote: »

Nominally I would be for free speech
However I believe censoring the manifesto is the correct move in this situation
I read 50 pages of it and it is a radicalising document
Ireland should ban it too

And yet you weren't radicalised? Personal superpower or something? Sheesh, some really have the horn for censorship.

suicide_circus · 28-03-2019 6:07am

riffmongous wrote: »

The head of the Identitarians in Austria is being investigated for possible links to the shooter after officials flagged 'larger than usual' donation made last year. He was known to have travelled to Austria just a few months ago too. It's maybe not that interesting at first glance but the Identitarians links to the far right FPparty have come under more and more scrutiny since the latter came into power recently, and got control of the Inner Ministry.

https://kurier.at/chronik/oesterreich/christchurch-ministerium-bestaetigt-razzia-bei-identitaerem-sellner/400446901

they have given his donation to a charity for the mosque victims

28-03-2019 8:45am

batgoat wrote:

In relation to that man losing his job. If I was in a New Zealand workplace and heard that shortly after the massacre of fifty people, I would complain. It's grossly insensitive and inappropriate for the workplace. For all he knows, colleagues were related to or knew the victims. Cop the **** on and don't be a dick in work.

It's really not grossly insensitive.

batgoat · 28-03-2019 8:57am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's really not grossly insensitive.

If such an attack happened in Ireland and you started talking like that in work, HR in most workplaces would be giving you a warning. (if you had received multiple warnings in past, you would be out the door)

The workplace is not the place for somebody to go off on their hateful rants. Doing so after that demographic were slaughtered only recently. That's both grossly insensitive and lucky that nobody pucked him. New Zealand has a population of 4.9 million, there's a pretty large chance that employees either know victims or those affected by it. How is it not incredibly insensitive?

28-03-2019 9:05am

Wibbs wrote: »

And yet you weren't radicalised? Personal superpower or something? Sheesh, some really have the horn for censorship.

Stupid argument. Not everyone who smokes gets cancer - for those that do it is themselves who suffer - they don't go out and kill people.

Not every one who drives intoxicated has an accident - by your argument its not the drink that leads to acidents then.
Not everyone who reads radicalising stuff will be radicalised - that's not exactly rocket science.

28-03-2019 9:10am

batgoat wrote: »

If such an attack happened in Ireland and you started talking like that in work, HR in most workplaces would be giving you a warning. (if you had received multiple warnings in past, you would be out the door)

The workplace is not the place for somebody to go off on their hateful rants. Doing so after that demographic were slaughtered only recently. That's both grossly insensitive and lucky that nobody pucked him. New Zealand has a population of 4.9 million, there's a pretty large chance that employees either know victims or those affected by it. How is it not incredibly insensitive?

Sorry?

He's lucky that someone didn't hit him for stating facts?

I can only go by the article and from what I read, it wasn't a hateful rant or grossly offensive.

And if you find it that way, you must have incredibly thin skin.

batgoat · 28-03-2019 9:17am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sorry?

He's lucky that someone didn't hit him for stating facts?

I can only go by the article and from what I read, it wasn't a hateful rant or grossly offensive.

And if you find it that way, you must have incredibly thin skin.

Yes very much so, firstly he was spouting Tommy Robinson styled propaganda... Secondly, you do realise there's an appropriate way to behave in work? When 50 Muslims get murdered and you go on a rant about Muslims straight after, that's being an utter dick and not acceptable in most workplaces.

28-03-2019 9:28am

batgoat wrote: »

Yes very much so, firstly he was spouting Tommy Robinson styled propaganda... Secondly, you do realise there's an appropriate way to behave in work? When 50 Muslims get murdered and you go on a rant about Muslims straight after, that's being an utter dick and not acceptable in most workplaces.

I respectfully disagree

batgoat · 28-03-2019 9:33am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I respectfully disagree

And a workplace hr department would be on my side which is the reality.

28-03-2019 9:36am

batgoat wrote: »

And a workplace hr department would be on my side which is the reality.

Well again, I can only go on the news report that was linked and didn't see anything in it that stated that he was on a hate filled rant.

He said he didn't use any offensive language and stated facts.

I have no reason to believe different.

donaghs · 28-03-2019 9:40am

batgoat wrote: »

And you seem to be ignoring that both communities have supported each other during significant events on both sides. Like I know Catholic priests with warped anti semitic views as well.

Who and where exactly are these "communities" you keep referring too? It sounds like you are talking a few people who appeared in the media in specific parts of the world, who you are using to represent millions from around the world who only have some shared religious beliefs in common.

Wibbs · 28-03-2019 9:44am

batgoat wrote: »

If such an attack happened in Ireland and you started talking like that in work, HR in most workplaces would be giving you a warning. (if you had received multiple warnings in past, you would be out the door)

The workplace is not the place for somebody to go off on their hateful rants. Doing so after that demographic were slaughtered only recently. That's both grossly insensitive and lucky that nobody pucked him. New Zealand has a population of 4.9 million, there's a pretty large chance that employees either know victims or those affected by it. How is it not incredibly insensitive?

On this we most certainly agree. There's a time and a place and by god in work after a mass murder is not one of them. He's a damned moron if he couldn't see the issue there.

Mass shooting New Zealand Mosque - MOD NOTE POST #1

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