Madeleine McCann

SusieBlue · 23-03-2019 01:45AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

Errr... it's really relevant and indeed the ONLY thing everyone agrees on. After all it's super hard to just snatch properly supervised kids.

It had absolutely no relevance to what we were discussing and you once again pulled it out as a trump card to prove their guilt.
It doesn’t prove their guilt at all.

cgcsb · 23-03-2019 01:46AM

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Mike9832 wrote: »

The media likes to make it out kids were that young

Maddie was 4 in a few days

Twins nearly 2 and a half

2 and a half your olds and 18 month old are a whole different ball game, they are very adventurous at that age, have no fear and can move, climb

Madness leaving them alone, Maddie would be like a baby sitter to them if they woke up

Parents were pretty confident they wouldn't wake up. Kitchens and bathrooms are a world of danger for a toddler.

limnam · 23-03-2019 01:48AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Not really, because in order for them to be responsible they’d have had to commit their crime, concoct their plan and execute it flawlessly in 2.5hrs with no access to a smartphone, internet or a car.
In an unfamiliar location full of tourists.
You keep brushing it off but this is the absolute crux of the matter for me.

I'm not brushing it off.

Sure, not an easy thing to do.

I'm still left with a list of so many things lies,deception from what if I take the line they're innocent because how did they get rid of the body that need to be answered.

Unfortunately there;s so many of them it over rides my concern of how to get rid of a body in a short space of time.

I can't make them innocent on my lack of imagination on getting rid of bodies.

So if I can tick of some of the why would innocent people do x. I'll lean closer to them been innocent but while all those issues remain unanswered problems I can't clear them

limnam · 23-03-2019 01:49AM

TallGlass wrote: »

Again honest question here, but this was 2007, surely CCTV would have been something most business over would have seen as a benefit and cheapish?

If someone did want to take her, where would they be mostly likely taken, the 'abducter' sighting, was of a 'local' looking person?

Didn't the police ask for people to send in there photos from the area? Did that ever pull anything up.

Small tourist town.

There's a huge lack of CCTV in this case IMO

TallGlass · 23-03-2019 01:50AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

micks_address wrote: »

There was also some very dodgy individuals around the area those days.

Just to point it out. It more than likely still is. Even most places, people abandon entire lives in places, because of whatever they have done previously.

Think about that CPA guy most recently, basically a lad caught out meeting up with a child, but an exposure gang meeting him in the end.

Where does he end up? Where is Larry is another question etc...

These lads ship out and we ship some in, we even have home grown here flying under the radar.

It's not a nice view to have of the world, but it's reality, we live locally amongst some seriously nasty people. This doesn't go away cause your on holidays.

TallGlass · 23-03-2019 01:51AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

Small tourist town.

There's a huge lack of CCTV in this case IMO

Mental really, considering we have GDPR now, because we are so 'monitored', difference really 10 years can make (I do know it's 12).

cgcsb · 23-03-2019 01:52AM

Something Else

micks_address wrote: »

Someone mentioned the priest being annoyed with the mccanns? The guy in the documentary seemed to be very much on their side.

The sedation does seem like a smoking gun. The twins slept through the night with all hell breaking loose about them. People in and out of the appartment and I think they even slept through being moved to another apartment? That doesn't seem normal. Kate was also constantly checking their breathing during the night.. the fact she was an anesthesist before becoming a gp only adds fuel to the fire.

There was also some very dodgy individuals around the area those days.

The fridge and disposal theory amaral had come up with in the previous case. They had cut up a mannequin and proved it couldn't fit in the fridge.. it does very much look like that was a coereched confession and the uncle apparently confessed to his cellmate he had sold the kid for drugs..

The other interesting piece is the mccanns supposed dumping of a fridge.. if that is true and I'm not sure if there's credible evidence there is then I'd have to suspect the parents.

I thought the documentary was going down the road of blaming the parents but by the end it was completely switched to child trafficking..

I do think it's a pity Scotland yard weren't on the case from day one. In the Portuguese system you have a man who looks like had a playbook for these types of investigations.. that was wasted energy if it's not true..

I don't blame the mccanns re the private investigators. It looks like the Kennedys hired the US fraudsters.. was embarrassing that US crew were headed up by an Irish guy.

The stats in cases say it's nearly always someone known to the victim that's involved..

The Irish American fraudster PI was a bit of a smoking gun for me. That was in the 2010s, the Kennedy's could have googled him and found out all about his reputation before handing over thousands of euro. The supposed PI handed over google Earth images and claimed to have CIA satellite imagery of the street that night and the Kenedy's bought that? jeeze they're dumb but they're not that dumb.

SusieBlue · 23-03-2019 01:52AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That quote means the opposite of what you believe. Alright I know it maybe is a typo.

It was a typo as I’m sure you knew but thanks for passive aggressively pointing it out.

TallGlass · 23-03-2019 01:53AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

The Irish American fraudster PI was a bit of a smoking gun for me. That was in the 2010s, the Kennedy's could have googled him and found out all about his reputation before handing over thousands of euro. The supposed PI handed over google Earth images and claimed to have CIA satellite imagery of the street that night and the Kenedy's bought that? jeeze they're dumb but they're not that dumb.

As they say, idiots and there money are easily parted!

cgcsb · 23-03-2019 01:54AM

Something Else

SusieBlue wrote: »

It had absolutely no relevance to what we were discussing and you once again pulled it out as a trump card to prove their guilt.
It doesn’t prove their guilt at all.

They're guilty of neglect and endangerment, the murder part remains to be seen.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 23-03-2019 01:57AM

For those posters who pin their theories to the cadevar dogs. What was the time frame for when Madeline went missing, approx 3 hours? So are we to believe that the body had begun to decompose to such an extent in those three hours that a cadaver dog was able to pick up the scent a month later?

Can you imagine how frustrated the parents would have been when the Portuguese police suggest this half witted theory and suspected you as the parents as being responsible for that death?

chicorytip · 23-03-2019 01:57AM

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gozunda wrote:

She also mentions this individuals liking of bathing children other than his own. Don't know about you but that and the comments are enough to set at least some alarm bells ringing down the back tbh.

All of the parents, not just Payne, would take turns bathing the children in a tub I presume, two or three at a time, at the end of the day. Again, I see nothing sinister in this. I don't think she used the word "liking" in reference to Payne and the bathing of the children. The use of that word could be construed as meaning that he derived sexual pleasure from this activity. Anyway, all of this has little relevance to the main issue. Who was responsible for the disappearance of the child?

cgcsb · 23-03-2019 01:59AM

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TallGlass wrote: »

Mental really, considering we have GDPR now, because we are so 'monitored', difference really 10 years can make (I do know it's 12).

Europe is very diverse. English and German/Dutch people are monitored to the extreme, even in rural areas you can's pull off a crime, your license plate will bleep across a vast network of cctv. Go to Cyprus and you see the other extreme, you could basically get away with anything there.

Mike9832 · 23-03-2019 02:06AM

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Who knew it was so easy to dispose of a body, just dump it in a bin and nobody would find it.

Why has nobody every thought of that before?

Its been done loads of times

Loads of cases of bodies dumped into bins

We are talking huge bins here, not single household bins like we are used to in Ireland

Gerry had a missing a large gym bag that was never found either I believe

Gym bag, small child, large bin, landfill that morning at 4am

Its not as crazy as it seems imo

limnam · 23-03-2019 02:09AM

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

For those posters who pin their theories to the cadevar dogs. What was the time frame for when Madeline went missing, approx 3 hours? So are we to believe that the body had begun to decompose to such an extent in those three hours that a cadaver dog was able to pick up the scent a month later?

Can you imagine how frustrated the parents would have been when the Portuguese police suggest this half witted theory and suspected you as the parents as being responsible for that death?

picked up at 5:30 missing at 10ish

In tests they have something like 98% success rate if the fresh corpse is in the same place for 10 minutes

v638sg7k1a92bx · 23-03-2019 02:11AM

limnam wrote: »

picked up at 5:30 missing at 10ish

In tests they have something like 98% success rate if the fresh corpse is in the same place for 10 minutes

Nonsense. A body has begun decomposing to such an extent that it has a different smell within 5 hours?

Also, the McCanns had been at dinner before 10 which means the girl would have died, the crime scene cleaned, body disposed of and the parents back in time for dinner.

That theory does not hold water.

limnam · 23-03-2019 02:11AM

chicorytip wrote: »

All of the parents, not just Payne, would take turns bathing the children in a tub I presume, two or three at a time, at the end of the day. Again, I see nothing sinister in this. I don't think she used the word "liking" in reference to Payne and the bathing of the children. The use of that word could be construed as meaning that he derived sexual pleasure from this activity. Anyway, all of this has little relevance to the main issue. Who was responsible for the disappearance of the child?

Parents bathing other parents kids

I have to say, I've never came across this before and find it really odd

How many of your friends have washed your kids in the bath?

Mike9832 · 23-03-2019 02:15AM

limnam wrote: »

Parents bathing other parents kids

I have to say, I've never came across this before and find it really odd

How many of your friends have washed your kids in the bath?

In my case no too

My wifes sister and grandparents have washed, thats it

cgcsb · 23-03-2019 02:18AM

Something Else

I think regardless of whether the McCanns killed the child or not they should be in prison. The twins were only 2 at the time when their parents left them in the care of an unconscious 3 year old. There's another 16 years of recklessness before Kate and Gerry's legal responsibility ceases. I know a lot of people are claiming it was only this week that they were reckless. I don't buy it. There were alternatives available this week but they were comfortable just leaving them, this was clearly a continuous behavior no matter if they were in Portugal or at home. Past behavior = future behavior 90% of the time. If it wasn't Maddie in Portugal it would have been one of them in some accident at a later point.

limnam · 23-03-2019 02:19AM

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Nonsense. A body has begun decomposing to such an extent that it has a different smell within 5 hours?

Also, the McCanns had been at dinner before 10 which means the girl would have died, the crime scene cleaned, body disposed of and the parents back in time for dinner.

That theory does not hold water.

Less. It's about 3 hours for 98%

If the body has been in the same place for 2 minutes it drops to 94%

So even when things are still functioning in the body it can detect it.

Not so silly now is it?

Well they might have got some of it done, then Gerry fecked off for an hour I believe. Maybe he was finishing up

Maybe they had help...*shrug*

v638sg7k1a92bx · 23-03-2019 02:19AM

Mike9832 wrote: »

Its been done loads of times

Loads of cases of bodies dumped into bins

We are talking huge bins here, not single household bins like we are used to in Ireland

Gerry had a missing a large gym bag that was never found either I believe

Gym bag, small child, large bin, landfill that morning at 4am

Its not as crazy as it seems imo

Nobody thought to look in the bins?

cgcsb · 23-03-2019 02:22AM

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Nonsense. A body has begun decomposing to such an extent that it has a different smell within 5 hours?
.

Different smell from a human perspective? no. Dogs are thousands of times more perceptive in this area. I had a non-trained dog, 16 year old, blind as a bat, knew 100% which family member was which with sterling accuracy, absolutely no fooling him despite our vastly superior intellects and hours of effort.

Mike9832 · 23-03-2019 02:28AM

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Nobody thought to look in the bins?

Only a few were checked and not thoroughly just a glance

Truck came at between 12-4am as normal to empty

Lady Poepoe · 23-03-2019 02:41AM

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

For those posters who pin their theories to the cadevar dogs. What was the time frame for when Madeline went missing, approx 3 hours? So are we to believe that the body had begun to decompose to such an extent in those three hours that a cadaver dog was able to pick up the scent a month later?

Can you imagine how frustrated the parents would have been when the Portuguese police suggest this half witted theory and suspected you as the parents as being responsible for that death?

They can smell death from few years back. They have the dogs highly trained

OwlsZat · 23-03-2019 02:48AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

The accusations at first look ok to level against the parents until you realise how difficult it would be for them to kill their own daughter and cover it up in the middle of a police and media frenzy.

Madeline was most likely taken from an open apartment then moved by ferry at first light to Tangire Morocco. (intercepted Arabic message) She was cited multiple times closely by (not the women with the kid wrapped in a blanket on her back). It's also well known that countries neighbouring Morocco have a bustling slave trade.

The only other credible link is the Belgium child sex ring stuff but there is no concrete evidence to back this up. Surely the risk of her being recognised throughout Europe would be far too great.

23-03-2019 02:50AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

One of the things I found fascinating about the Netflix documentary was the woman who extracts and draws up the photofits from other people's (very vague) memories.

She spent hours upon hours with Tanner just to paint a tiny fragment of a memory. And then for the picture to have born a resemblance to the random innocent man that later identified with the picture.

The way she spoke about the whole process, about capturing the essence of the memory and the fleeting feeling the "culprit" provoked in the witness, I found very interesting. And the way she described the relief people felt to see their memories on paper.

It's a great and very useful talent to have.

Apologies to stray a bit from Madeleine but thought this woman did great work with what she was given.

OwlsZat · 23-03-2019 03:01AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

There's a fab video out there of a woman sketching a portrait of a man's dead wife from an American show. Similar wonderful talent.

Plumbthedepths · 23-03-2019 03:09AM

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote:

Why do you put so much weight in one persons eye witness testimony, eye witness testimony and photofits are very unreliable?

dark crystal wrote:

Spectacular memory Martin Smith has, seeing a guy with his head bowed on a dark street for a matter of seconds and being able to come up with such a detailed description.

mistersifter wrote:

She spent hours upon hours with Tanner just to paint a tiny fragment of a memory. And then for the picture to have born a resemblance to the random innocent man that later identified with the picture.

Just thought I'd leave this here.

23-03-2019 03:28AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Just thought I'd leave this here.

I'm very much out of the loop of this thread and have no idea what youre insinuating here. Is the woman who drew the photofit (works for the FBI I think?) being labelled a spoofer by one side or other?

I found it very interesting the way she spoke about capturing movements and the vibe the person gave off. As someone who cannot draw for sh*t, I envy that ability.

Plumbthedepths · 23-03-2019 03:44AM

mistersifter wrote:

I'm very much out of the loop of this thread and have no idea what youre insinuating here. Is the woman who drew the photofit (works for the FBI I think?) being labelled a spoofer by one side or other?

No insinuation at all. Just comparing comparisons about photofits. Yours was a reasoned and thought out description of the process behind the work .

Madeleine McCann

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