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Mass shooting New Zealand Mosque - MOD NOTE POST #1

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    #1052
    fash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭fash


    Human interest story focusing on just one of the victims. Makes things hit home more I think (forgive the daily mail link- it popped up on Google):


    Daily Mail: Woman shot dead as she begged for help on the pavement outside Christchurch mosque had escaped.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6828025/Woman-shot-dead-begged-help-pavement-outside-Christchurch-mosque-escaped.html?ito=rss-google-news


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    #1053
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    i think it might be cathartic for the people of NZ to burn Peterson's books in the civic square in Wellington


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    #1054
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,027 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Call Me Jimmy wrote: »
    Yea but in fairness hitler never stood beside someone wearing a questionable t-shirt

    Well, he was a downtrodden artist and a Vegetarian to boot, which is brownie points for the new age puritans.


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    #1055
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,027 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    i think it might be cathartic for the people of NZ to burn Peterson's books in the civic square in Wellington

    Heinrich Heine wrote:
    Wherever books are burned, men in the end will also burn
    .


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    #1056
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,712 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    i think it might be cathartic for the people of NZ to burn Peterson's books in the civic square in Wellington

    Wow, mocking a massacre, cool.

    I doubt the people of NZ or the victims families give a flying fook about some nobody loon "author" or what some shop has decided not to stock.

    I imagine they are more focused on how 50 men, women and children can be slaughtered by a cowardly bigot because the internet hurt his delusional "feelings".


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    #1057
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Boggles wrote: »
    Wow, mocking a massacre, cool.

    I doubt the people of NZ or the victims families give a flying fook about some nobody loon "author" or what some shop has decided not to stock.

    I imagine they are more focused on how 50 men, women and children can be slaughtered by a cowardly bigot because the internet hurt his delusional "feelings".

    yeah. not mocking the massacre, mocking the sinister reactions to it. you do enjoy a good strawman dont you.


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    #1058
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,238 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    markodaly wrote: »
    On the book banning itself, its kinda hilarious in a way but also tragic.

    One can buy Mein Kampf from the same bookshop, yet Jordan Peterson's book '12 Rules for Life' which as far as I know never even mentions Islam gets banned?

    Odd times we live in.

    Some people want to live in a pure, virtuous world where everyone is free of all sin, so to speak. We should call it 'Progressive Neo Puritanism'.

    You can call it capitalism too. First of all, the bookshop can stock whatever they want. You can choose to shop there if you like, or if you don't like how they do business, then go somewhere else. The bookshop can decide publishing a book the mass killer has read might not be a good look for them. Whatever the reason, they can do what the fúck they want.


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    #1059
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    so capitalism when it bans ideas you dislike is fair game.

    but capitalism which results in income inequality is bad.

    which is it?


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    #1060
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    so capitalism when it bans ideas you dislike is fair game.

    but capitalism which results in income inequality is bad.

    which is it?

    To be fair. Could be both. That’s a false dilemma.


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    #1061
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,712 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    yeah. not mocking the massacre, mocking the sinister reactions to it. you do enjoy a good strawman dont you.

    Your suggesting comical reactions, it's mocking plain and simple.


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    #1062
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,238 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    so capitalism when it bans ideas you dislike is fair game.

    but capitalism which results in income inequality is bad.

    which is it?

    What idea has been banned?


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    #1063
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Boggles wrote: »
    Your suggesting comical reactions, it's mocking plain and simple.
    your strawmans dont work buddy


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    #1064
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Cienciano wrote: »
    What idea has been banned?
    i'm just suspicious of the banning of books.


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    #1065
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    To be fair. Could be both. That’s a false dilemma.

    its the using of capitalism as a defence by people who decry capitalism that i find hypocritical. not to mention short sighted, one day it will be their books which will be banned.


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    #1066
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,027 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Cienciano wrote: »
    You can call it capitalism too. First of all, the bookshop can stock whatever they want. You can choose to shop there if you like, or if you don't like how they do business, then go somewhere else. The bookshop can decide publishing a book the mass killer has read might not be a good look for them. Whatever the reason, they can do what the fúck they want.

    You misunderstood, I agree with the principle.


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    #1067
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,238 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    i'm just suspicious of the banning of books.

    Relax, a bookstore choosing to not stock a book is not "the banning of books". There's probably thousands of books they don't stock for different reasons.


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    #1068
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    Boggles wrote: »
    Wow, mocking a massacre, cool.

    I doubt the people of NZ or the victims families give a flying fook about some nobody loon "author" or what some shop has decided not to stock.

    I imagine they are more focused on how 50 men, women and children can be slaughtered by a cowardly bigot because the internet hurt his delusional "feelings".

    All of us, without exception have been shocked by this horrific massacre in New Zealand, and more so because many of us know the country, and it is within the wider ''European'' world. The stories of the poor people mown down so brutally are heart-breaking.

    Ironically, we respond more strongly to this story than others because of inherent racial allegiance - this happened among ''our'' kind of people, in a country ''we'' know. This is not that admirable really if one examines it. If it were otherwise we would respond equally strongly to the massacres in Egypt or the Philippines, but the fact is we do not.

    Do you respond to every massacre that happens in the world with quite this level of investment? You must be kept busy if so, but at least you would be admirably consistent. I put in a list earlier of recent massacres by cowardly religious and political bigots such as you described this murderer, so you can check how democratic your compassion has been of late. The massacres from many different corners of the world have overwhelmingly been committed by those whose ''feelings'' have been deluded by radical Islam.

    Or perhaps you are simply on a bandwagon that pushes an agenda?


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    #1069
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    its the using of capitalism as a defence by people who decry capitalism that i find hypocritical. not to mention short sighted, one day it will be their books which will be banned.

    It’s one bookshop not allowing certain books. Happens all the time. All bookshops have editorial policies, and limited space.

    Online monopolies are a bit different.


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    #1070
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    It’s one bookshop not allowing certain books. Happens all the time. All bookshops have editorial policies, and limited space.

    Online monopolies are a bit different.

    I don't really care one way or another about this book being not stocked, it doesn't rile me up, but just to say Whitscoulls (sp?) has over 50 stores in New Zealand, so it pretty much is the bookstore for the whole country.


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    #1071
    Call Me Jimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    Cienciano wrote: »
    You can call it capitalism too. First of all, the bookshop can stock whatever they want. You can choose to shop there if you like, or if you don't like how they do business, then go somewhere else. The bookshop can decide publishing a book the mass killer has read might not be a good look for them. Whatever the reason, they can do what the fúck they want.

    Of course they can decide not to sell a book that 'the mass killer has read' (has he?), and people can criticise that decision so that society / consumers don't validate similar ones in the future. That's the feedback loop of capitalism. People think it's not a good idea for bookstores to stop selling books based on what a mass killer may or may not have read and are voicing that opinion.


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    #1072
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,712 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Zorya wrote: »
    I don't really care one way or another about this book being not stocked, it doesn't rile me up, but just to say Whitscoulls (sp?) has over 50 stores in New Zealand, so it pretty much is the bookstore for the whole country.

    No it isn't, they have several chains of books stores, including Amazon and many other online retailers.

    If anyone wanted the book they could have it, in seconds if they so wished.


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    #1073
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    im sorry, my spidey senses just tingle when books with pretty flipping innocuous subject matter are scapgoated for a mass murder. Look its a knee jerk reaction with little or no thought behind it, i get it.


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    #1074
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,106 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Look its a knee jerk reaction with little or no thought behind it
    Not a shock TBH SC.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1075
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    im sorry, my spidey senses just tingle when books with pretty flipping innocuous subject matter are scapgoated for a mass murder. Look its a knee jerk reaction with little or no thought behind it, i get it.

    :) Norman Vincent Peale, the benign old grand-daddy of self help gurus, is said to have been highly influential in shaping the mind of........dun dun dun ....Donald Trump! Off with his head.


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    #1076
    conorhal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,987 ✭✭✭conorhal


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    im sorry, my spidey senses just tingle when books with pretty flipping innocuous subject matter are scapgoated for a mass murder. Look its a knee jerk reaction with little or no thought behind it, i get it.


    If you want to know who the real Nazi's are, all you have to do is ask yourself, 'who's burning the books these days?'

    Why it's almost as if the identitarian left have no interest in challenging right wing extremists, but would rather employ the deaths of 50 people to de-platform the most middle of the road conservatives because they are the ones that might actually challenge their orthodoxy.

    In their censorious rampage, there are two scary consequences of their current behaviour that the 'blue check-mark left' seem utterly oblivious to.

    1) The worm always turns.
    The same people losing their minds about Trump’s abuse of executive orders never questioned if it was a good idea to hand near dictatorial powers to an executive office when they legislated to expand their use under Obama, because divine rule by brown Jesus just seemed right to them at the time.
    This de-platforming (by demanding tech firms develop and deploy tools to mass censor speech) will come to bite them in the ass, or do they imagine that global multi-national corporations will remain sympathetic to the voice of a bunch of Marxists when their interests are challenged?

    2) This will formant civil war.
    In their eagerness to drive any conservative voices from Twitter, Facebook and Youtube, remove them from funding platforms like Patreon and Paypal and ensure that universities, the media and inflentual institutions contain no contrarian opinions, the identitarian left don’t seem to have considered where these people will go.
    They will go to platforms like Gab, Bitchute and whatever payment processing platform that won’t un-person them from the internet that Jordan Peterson and Dave Rubin are attempting to build.
    All the left will achieve by their behavour is two very separate echo chambers in which confirmation bias will be the order of the day and all debate will cease.
    If you want to formant a civil war, ending debate and ensuring that ideological opponents operate in completely segregated social, work and financial spaces is a sure fire way to do so. Perhaps that's the goal of the wannabe Che's wearing Antifa chic these days?


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    #1077
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    markodaly wrote: »
    I love it when self-confessed left winger go with the 'Its a private company, they can do what they want' line when it suits them.

    Why?

    If you think being left-wing means a person is automatically anti-capitalist rather than anti-exploitation it just demonstrates your own ignorance of the vast spectrum that encompasses the Left.

    Either that or you are tasteless enough to use a thread about mass murder to have a dig at another poster's politics.


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    #1078
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,027 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Why?

    If you think being left-wing means a person is automatically anti-capitalist rather than anti-exploitation it just demonstrates your own ignorance of the vast spectrum that encompasses the Left.

    Either that or you are tasteless enough to use a thread about mass murder to have a dig at another poster's politics.

    Condescension plus a claim of a higher moral authority, while ignoring the point. Quite a trifecta. I'll leave you to it.


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    #1079
    MontgomeryClift
    Registered Users Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭MontgomeryClift


    markodaly wrote: »
    You do not see that it's odd that one can buy 'Mien Kampf' but not '12 rules for life'?

    One guy was the leader of National Socialism, created the 3rd Reich, launched a war which killed up to 50 million people, including the gassing of millions of Jews, Gypsies, and homosexuals.
    While I don't argue with you on the book banning, I have a couple of corrections there:
    1) Britain and France declared war on Germany on September 3 1939, while Hitler, both in public and in private, always maintained he wanted an end to pointless wars with both countries, and
    2) I suggest you do some real research in to the 'gassing of millions' thing, but I feel obliged to warn you that a critical inquiry into this topic will make you a holocaust denier.


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    #1080
    DS86DS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 691 ✭✭✭DS86DS


    Brendan Tarrant, self-described Communist with a hatred for Christianity and Conservatives.

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/radicalization-degeneration-brenton-tarrant-white-supremacist/
    He praises the People’s Republic of China as his ideal state.
    He adds, in all caps, “CONSERVATISM IS DEAD, THANK GOD.” He also despises France’s National Front, or whatever it’s called today. He calls them “milquetoast.” He praises the emergence of Trump as a sign of hope, but mocks Trump too


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    #1081
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    markodaly wrote: »
    You do not see that it's odd that one can buy 'Mien Kampf' but not '12 rules for life'?

    One guy was the leader of National Socialism, created the 3rd Reich, launched a war which killed up to 50 million people, including the gassing of millions of Jews, Gypsies, and homosexuals.

    The other guy possed in a photo next to a guy wearing a subjectively offensive t-shirt.

    Out of these two who whose ideas caused more carnage?

    Oh, and that is not even starting on the whole 'freedom of speech' for private businesses when it suits.

    Hypocrisy on the part of the bookstore for sure if that is the case. I don't know where the hypocrisy is on the part of the poster that you quoted. I think she's been pretty consistent in her approach to shops being allowed to stock or sell what they want. Maybe I missed some glaring example...


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