Helmets - the definitive thread.. ** Mod Note - Please read Opening Post **

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So do you wear a helmet at all times in the car to get that extra level of protection? And when you go out drinking, given the link between alcohol and head injuries?

You have the seat belt and air bag as the extra protection in the car.

As for when you are out drinking, your not travelling at speed as you are on a bike.
How many head injuries come from just drinking and not a side effect of an outside influence?

Now if you want to go OTT, maybe we should make helmets optional for motorbike users or make cyclists where body armour. But this is all OTT


Do you think all motor cyclists should have helmets even though some bikes are slower than the speed cyclists go at?

average_runner wrote: »

You have the seat belt and air bag as the extra protection in the car.

As for when you are out drinking, your not travelling at speed as you are on a bike.
How many head injuries come from just drinking and not a side effect of an outside influence?

Now if you want to go OTT, maybe we should make helmets optional for motorbike users or make cyclists where body armour. But this is all OTT


Do you think all motor cyclists should have helmets even though some bikes are slower than the speed cyclists go at?

Mmm I dunno...I think peoples faith in Seat belts, airbags etc. in cars is over rated. the best safety feature in a car is the middle pedal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7dG9UlzeFM

average_runner wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So do you wear a helmet at all times in the car to get that extra level of protection? And when you go out drinking, given the link between alcohol and head injuries?

You have the seat belt and air bag as the extra protection in the car.

As for when you are out drinking, your not travelling at speed as you are on a bike.
How many head injuries come from just drinking and not a side effect of an outside influence?

Now if you want to go OTT, maybe we should make helmets optional for motorbike users or make cyclists where body armour. But this is all OTT


Do you think all motor cyclists should have helmets even though some bikes are slower than the speed cyclists go at

Though even with seat belts and air bags, there are still way more head injuries in cars than on bikes. If you're really convinced on the value of helmets to reduce head injury, why wouldn't you be pushing for mandatory motoring helmets as a top priority?

I don't know much about motorcycling, so I'm not going to comment on that one.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Though even with seat belts and air bags, there are still way more head injuries in cars than on bikes. If you're really convinced on the value of helmets to reduce head injury, why wouldn't you be pushing for mandatory motoring helmets as a top priority?

I don't know much about motorcycling, so I'm not going to comment on that one.

I never said I was convinced on the value of helmets, but i did say the following:

"Is there any evidence that shows a helmet doesn't offer any extra protection where a head hits head on to something? "

magicbastarder wrote: »

there's a middle pedal? how you you pedal it if you've only two feet?

It's called "Heel and toe". You have to wear white socks to do it properly!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAwJsOECGBU

07Lapierre wrote: »

It's called "Heel and toe". You have to wear white socks to do it properly!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAwJsOECGBU

How did that turn out for Senna in the end?

conkennedy wrote: »

How did that turn out for Senna in the end?

I think he was impressed with the NSX.

average_runner wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Which would equally apply within a car, right?

But this is the cycling forum and in relation to cycling only, if you want to talk about it in relation to cars, open a thread in that forum.

The reason for bringing it up here is to expose the utter hypocrisy of the helmet fans. Your deflection tells me that I'm on the right track.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The reason for bringing it up here is to expose the utter hypocrisy of the helmet fans. Your deflection tells me that I'm on the right track.

Not really. My interest on the helmets was there any evidence showing they were or were not effective for cyclists.

If helmets provide safety for head injuries when cycling, surely then its a good idea to safe at least 1 life? Do you agree or disagree in relation to just cycling?

Now if you want to go down the road of what other modes of transport should or have for safety, then ideally cyclists should have the same protection gear a motorcyclists has, pads for knees and elbows, and back protection also when racing.

average_runner wrote: »

Not really. My interest on the helmets was there any evidence showing they were or were not effective for cyclists.

If helmets provide safety for head injuries when cycling, surely then its a good idea to safe at least 1 life? Do you agree or disagree in relation to just cycling?

Do you think that if something would save "at least 1 life", then it's worth doing?

average_runner wrote: »

"Is there any evidence that shows a helmet doesn't offer any extra protection where a head hits head on to something? "

I have read that if you fall wearing a helmet increases the risk of hitting your head 100%, due to the bulky size. It can also make some injuries worse. I have said if I wore a helmet 24/7 I reckon I would crack 3 or 4 per year, and I would spare people the drama "jaysus I'd be dead if I wasn't wearing that".

I wear elbow and knee protection on my bike in icy weather. I have also worn downhill mountain bike elbow protection when walking in icy weather.

I do not wear a helmet commuting but would if downhill mountain biking, I do not partake in that as I think it is generally too dangerous. If I was to wear a helmet on any transport it would be on the luas, bus, or a car before on a bike in normal weather.

I have thought of wearing a helmet in icy weather. I did have a fall and split the top of my head as I fell against a railing, a helmet would have stopped the cut but might have lead to a worse neck injury, my neck was quite sore a day later. Due to the bulk of the helmet my head would have been twisted a lot more.

A&E is brimming with head injuries due to drunks falling or in fights. Whenever they ask the coronors or doctors if a helmet would have decreased the head injury they invariably say yes, and recommend drinkers all wear helmets -oh wait, I'm all mixed up the media NEVER ask them that, sure that would be CRAZY, as CRAZY as cycling without a helmet :rolleyes:

average_runner wrote: »

Not really. My interest on the helmets was there any evidence showing they were or were not effective for cyclists.

If helmets provide safety for head injuries when cycling, surely then its a good idea to safe at least 1 life? Do you agree or disagree in relation to just cycling?

Now if you want to go down the road of what other modes of transport should or have for safety, then ideally cyclists should have the same protection gear a motorcyclists has, pads for knees and elbows, and back protection also when racing.

Ok leave the effectiveness of helmets in other transport modes out of it. The argument boils down to the direct pros/cons of helmet use, versus the epidemiological pros/cons of helmet use.

In the direct use case, helmets provide extra protection. not against all possible injuries, not even against all possible injuries to the head, but they do offer some protection. Pro/Con, it is probably better to be wearing a helmet when you are having an accident.

In the epidemiological case, the risks of getting into an accident were you need a helmet, seem to increase when you wear a helmet. Either because there is a documented psychological phenomenon where the helmet wearer takes more risks [Gamble and Walker, 2016] , or the other documented phenomenon where other road users pass closer to cyclists wearing helmets [Walker, 2007]. There is also the issue of mandatory helmet laws acting as a barrier to people taking up cycling, reducing the "Safety in Numbers" effect, but that is an argument against making helmets mandatory, not whether one should choose to wear one.

So is it better to reduce the risk of having an accident, or increase the risk of having an accident, and very slightly reduce the risk of some specific injuries?

When it comes to helmets while cycling, Chris Boardman has the answer...”if you want to wear a helmet, wear one. If you don’t want to wear one, don’t”