The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann (Netflix)

El Nino09 · 21-03-2019 01:55PM

pc7 wrote: »

I think Oldfield said he didn't put his head in, just listened outside the bedroom door

This is what I find so shocking . Kate recalled entering the apartment through the unlocked patio doors at the back, and noticing that the children's bedroom door was wide open. When she tried to close the door, it slammed shut as though there was a draught.
So only for the door slamming shut she would not have entered the room to discover Madeleine was missing

gozunda · 21-03-2019 02:08PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

I don't disagree with you. I was replying to someone who disputed the possibility of a perpetrator taking the child.I know that either scenario is possible, but the person I was replying to was dismissing the notion that she was taken.
They basically said it wasn't possible.
That's why I pointed out the inconsistencies in the logistics in the McCann's being involved.
I wouldn't have brought it up only for PP entirely dismissed the notion she could have been taken.

Either could have happened, I have my own feelings on which way I think events occurred but I've always said I can see why other people think the McCann's were involved. I just don't believe they were, personally.

I don't get the sense that the person you were replying to was totally dismissing the notion that she was taken tbh. They did point to the very small window of opportunity for such a scenario which imo is a valid point tbh.

The poster also detailed an alternative scenario as a possibility.

Tbh personally I do not have a favourite scenario. I do find alot of the facts of the case baffling tbh. I also believe though it can be easy to lose objectivity when projecting the story through others feelings as has happened with much of the stuff reported in the MSM. At the end of the day sadly the child has never been found.

Necro · 21-03-2019 02:19PM

I probably lean slightly more on the side of the abduction being more likely than a tragic accident and cover-up if I'm completely honest.

Which - if the case - makes it a little more galling if possible, as the entire situation was completely avoidable if the Mc Canns had either availed of the onsite babysitters or simply gotten a take-out and eaten on their patio.

And, in the same vein - a torture that the parents probably relive and rethink every day since that point onwards.

21-03-2019 02:19PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

I don't disagree with you.
I was replying to someone who disputed the possibility of a perpetrator taking the child.
I know that either scenario is possible, but the person I was replying to was dismissing the notion that she was taken.
They basically said it wasn't possible.
That's why I pointed out the inconsistencies in the logistics in the McCann's being involved.
I wouldn't have brought it up only for PP entirely dismissed the notion she could have been taken.

Either could have happened, I have my own feelings on which way I think events occurred but I've always said I can see why other people think the McCann's were involved. I just don't believe they were, personally.

I didn't say it wasn't possible. Just seems very unlikely to me. Gerry, Matthew and Kate were all in that apartment between around 09:05pm and 10pm. They would have spent a small amount of time inside the apartment each.
Jane was also on the side street after 9pm were she made the sighting.
Gerry had also been out talking to a friend.

If you are an abductor and you are watching this, you'd likely be very put off with all of this activity. And we don't know who else might have been around.
Also, could the abductor have known for sure that the door was unlocked?

So the abductor would have had quite a small window of time to break in, walk around an apartment he doesn't know in the dark, not wake the kids, take Madeline, and then escape with Madeleine through the window? Or for some reason open the window and head back out the door.

He'd also have to hope not to be seen while doing this.
Yes its possible. But I think any potential abductor would have been put off by the activity. And its unlikely that a random opportunist just walked up the stairs, chanced the door and got in and decided to abduct a girl while he was at it.

razorblunt · 21-03-2019 02:28PM

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Is there any reason why the parents didn't lock the doors? Why would they leave it unlocked...surely they could share a key for whoever is checking on them

The patio doors can be locked from the inside only so you'd effectivley leave it unlocked via a thumb lock from the inside then exit either through the doors or out the front door. This means they could always get in through the back without their key card.

razorblunt · 21-03-2019 02:50PM

El Nino09 wrote: »

This is what I find so shocking . Kate recalled entering the apartment through the unlocked patio doors at the back, and noticing that the children's bedroom door was wide open. When she tried to close the door, it slammed shut as though there was a draught.
So only for the door slamming shut she would not have entered the room to discover Madeleine was missing

Her exact wording apparently was "more ajar than she remembered leaving it" which is mad considering people were in and out before her.

0gac3yjefb5sv7 · 21-03-2019 02:55PM

Could something have happened a day or two earlier before they reported her missing?

pc7 · 21-03-2019 03:02PM

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Could something have happened a day or two earlier before they reported her missing?

I don't think that's possible as she was signed out of kids club and she had been sailing and jumped in after a little girls hat that day to get it back for her

IAMAMORON · 21-03-2019 03:09PM

For me the poor girl was abducted. The south coast of the Iberian peninsula is a really transient area. People are always coming and going, rarely staying for long periods, even the ex pats come and go.

It is an ideal hunting ground for Paedophile rings and other sinister elements. Kidnappers stalk their prey and problem solve how to snatch the kid. That is their job. When you think about it, a 20 minute snatch and grab is oodles of time. They would have planned it impeccably. You can be in Seville or Lisbon in 3 hours from there.

I don't think the parents were involved. When that cadaver dog started barking my jaw dropped, I was stunned. However the more I think about it I can't buy into the accident cover up theory. How the **** could they have sat around the dinner table, knowing their dead child was sitting in the house, whilst concocting a cover up with seven of their pals, nah, not a chance.

The only other plausible one for me is if a large fox did it, far fetched I know, but an open door and a hungry fox, it has happened before. Loads of wild dogs down there. If she was drugged up like they suspect the twins were she may not have woken up, but an unlikely scenario tbh.

Poll Dubh · 21-03-2019 03:32PM

OmegaGene wrote: »

After checking under a bed that goes all the way to the floor she then left the twins alone again according to her statement

Bed didn't go quite all the way to the floor

chicorytip · 21-03-2019 03:36PM

gozunda wrote:

The second scenario does not necessarily involve anyone killing the child btw. That she died accidentally, no particular evidence to conceal eg child suffocated or hit her head without major trauma, parents panicked, realised that they would lose their jobs and potentially custody of children etc, stuffed the childs body in a bag, placed same in the adjacent garden under bushes (scent later detected here by cadaver dog) etc. Whether this could have happened before, after or during dinner is also up for speculation tbh. Body later moved when things had died down to wasteland etc. This also seems incredible as above. Could it be a possibility? Yes.

It could be a possibility but would seem like a bizarre reaction by them to an accidental situation particularly if the child had not been sedated. I don't see why they would be fearful of losing their jobs or having the twins taken away from them either unless they thought that it could be established that the child died as a result of being given too much sedative, if indeed that was the case. I don't believe this happened. I think abduction was the most likely scenario.

IAMAMORON · 21-03-2019 03:45PM

The only instance where I can feel an accident cover up is possible, is if one of the parents covered it up on the night. There is no way the two of them went back for dinner after stashing a dead baby and started swilling wine and shooting the breeze.

One ( or both )of them had twenty minutes to find their dead baby, decide that this was detrimental to their family and career, successfully stash the baby, go back to dinner and sit there like nothing happened. Hannibal Lector would not even be able to hide his anxiety. It did not happen.

gozunda · 21-03-2019 04:22PM

chicorytip wrote: »

It could be a possibility but would seem like a bizarre reaction by them to an accidental situation particularly if the child had not been sedated. I don't see why they would be fearful of losing their jobs or having the twins taken away from them either unless they thought that it could be established that the child died as a result of being given too much sedative, if indeed that was the case. I don't believe this happened. I think abduction was the most likely scenario.

Again this is just one of the possible scenarios and interstingly a scenario put forward by the Portuguese police.

It has been variously proposed that the parents would at least have been found guilty of neglect under Portuguese and UK law and where a child died - risked being prosecuted potentially having their children taken from them as a result of leaving three children alone and unsupervised *(albeit with occasional checks)

The issue of sedation also raises its head here and has been variously suggested in a number of different scenarios. Again there is no evidence of this except circumstantial where the twins failed to wake up during the commotion of the apartment being overrun by those looking for the missing child etc.

As I said all are possible but there are also serious issues with each of these scenarios including that of abduction imo.

*
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11249091/Father-prosecuted-after-leaving-daughter-in-car-for-ten-minutes.html

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/illegal-leave-child-alone-car-10055654

yourdeadwright · 21-03-2019 04:27PM

So years and years later after all the money and best technology
Scotland yard and other international experts involved ,
Not once has any clue or lead come form the under world , the dark web or a crime ring ,
People fall out all the time and look to blackmail former friends and associates ,
There hasn't been single credible lead,

To me that would scream she was never taken, there was never a shred of evidence that she was ,

Normally the answer is right in front of your nose and in this case I think its the parents ,

SusieBlue · 21-03-2019 04:30PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

So years and years later after all the money and best technology
Scotland yard and other international experts involved ,
Not once has any clue or lead come form the under world , the dark web or a crime ring ,
People fall out all the time and look to blackmail former friends and associates ,
There hasn't been single credible lead,

To me that would scream she was never taken, there was never a shred of evidence that she was ,

Normally the answer is right in front of your nose and in this case I think its the parents ,

So where is she? Where did they hide her body?
They had no car, no smartphones or google maps, and approx. 1.5hrs from the time she would have "died" to when they sat down in the Tapas bar.
So where did they hide her, and if its right under our noses, why haven't her remains been discovered?

pc7 · 21-03-2019 04:32PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Not once has any clue or lead come form the under world , the dark web or a crime ring ,
,

It did though, they knew a Belgium pedophile ring had 'ordered' a girl similar to madeleine 3 days earlier.

gozunda · 21-03-2019 04:37PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

So where is she? Where did they hide her body?They had no car, no smartphones or google maps, and approx. 1.5hrs from the time she would have "died" to when they sat down in the Tapas bar. So where did they hide her, and if its right under our noses, why haven't her remains been discovered?

Susie to be fair - if we knew any of that we wouldn't be here discussing the case as is. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Tbh the same could be said of abduction - why hasn't she surfaced or at least someone informed the authorities of her whereabouts or their suspicions?

It's unfortunate that nothing adds up on this case

SusieBlue · 21-03-2019 04:40PM

gozunda wrote: »

Susie to be fair - if we knew any of that we wouldn't be here discussing the case as is. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Tbh the same could be said of abduction - why hasn't she surfaced or at least someone informed the authorities of her whereabouts or their suspicions?

It's unfortunate that nothing adds up on this case

I don't disagree, but once again, you are pulling up my post when PP just said:

To me that would scream she was never taken, there was never a shred of evidence that she was ,

Normally the answer is right in front of your nose and in this case I think its the parents

You seem to take issue with my replies but not the posts I'm replying to? I think its fair to ask what PP thinks happened when making such bold, certain statements as the above, no?

ifElseThen · 21-03-2019 04:55PM

The lack of any concrete lead in the years since weighs against an abduction. Not a single image, or video has been found on the dark web, that we know of. 1 bloke was caught with 2 million images recently. Surely a single image would have show up somewhere, even if such material is difficult to find. Or even on any of the busts of paedophiles in the decade since.

If it was an abductor, surely s/he would want share said image at some point, either as a some sort of sick trophy or to some law enforcement to use it as a sort of bartering tool.

Lack of snitches, image material, confessions etc. discounts the abductor scenario.
Estimated timeline and being able to hold it together discounts the McCann's as killer scenario.

It really is intriguing in the worst way, given the absolute dead ends encountered.

SusieBlue · 21-03-2019 05:00PM

ifElseThen wrote: »

The lack of any concrete lead in the years since weighs against an abduction. Not a single image, or video has been found on the dark web, that we know of. 1 bloke was caught with 2 million images recently. Surely a single image would have show up somewhere, even if such material is difficult to find. Or even on any of the busts of paedophiles in the decade since.

If it was an abductor, surely s/he would want share said image at some point, either as a some sort of sick trophy or to some law enforcement to use it as a sort of bartering tool.

Lack of snitches, image material, confessions etc. discounts the abductor scenario.
Estimated timeline and being able to hold it together discounts the McCann's as killer scenario.

It really is intriguing in the worst way, given the absolute dead ends encountered.

I think releasing the uniqueness of the iris of her eye was a huge mistake, made in good faith.
It made her instantly identifiable and a risk to keep, if she was taken.

My own feeling is that regardless of the purpose she was taken, she was probably killed not long after, due to a mixture of the media attention and her eye making her impossible to hide.
That's why no trace of her has been found on any website or no ransom attempts have been made.
That's just my own theory on it.

ifElseThen · 21-03-2019 05:02PM

@SusieBlue, yes that's a very good point.

Am hoping that in the next 5 - 10 years a girl in her late teens-early 20s will submit DNA to ancestry.com and this will all be resolved.

howamidifferent · 21-03-2019 05:04PM

Alien abduction?

Plumbthedepths · 21-03-2019 05:07PM

howamidifferent wrote:

Alien abduction?

Well I have seen it suggested that a large hungry fox took M so why not, equally plausible.

IAMAMORON · 21-03-2019 05:16PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

I think releasing the uniqueness of the iris of her eye was a huge mistake, made in good faith.
It made her instantly identifiable and a risk to keep, if she was taken.

My own feeling is that regardless of the purpose she was taken, she was probably killed not long after, due to a mixture of the media attention and her eye making her impossible to hide.
That's why no trace of her has been found on any website or no ransom attempts have been made.
That's just my own theory on it.

Sadly you could be very right. Her eye was such a giveaway. The kidnappers would not be in the business of getting caught. Also the fact that her disapearance went global so quickly, they may have decided to do so. I shudder to think, its disgusting.

The Portugese police won't have got everything wrong either. The problem appears to be that they took the wrong direction with their assumptions.

yourdeadwright · 21-03-2019 05:16PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

So where is she? Where did they hide her body?
They had no car, no smartphones or google maps, and approx. 1.5hrs from the time she would have "died" to when they sat down in the Tapas bar.
So where did they hide her, and if its right under our noses, why haven't her remains been discovered?

No idea ,

She was last seen at 6:30 alarm raised at 10 in between that we have no idea what happened .
You can not rule out anything that seems improbably as long as it is possible,

You can understand why McCann at one stage where suspects if they where not then the police would not be doing there job ,

There is zero evidence she was taken even zero circumstancel evidence ,

Personally I think the McCanns have always been hiding something god knows what but they have told lie's about there time line, I always find it crazy there friend never done an interview to clear things up ,

We shall never know what happened but personally I think it was the parents ,

homosapien91 · 21-03-2019 05:41PM

Finished watching this series last night.

I don't believe the parents had anything to do with her disappearance however I also don't believe for a second that they were checking on the children every 20/30 mins, they were having a few drinks with friends and you don't feel the time slipping by when drinking, when they eventually checked Madeleine was gone and this is something they will have to live with for the rest of their lives. They shouldn't have left the children alone to go out for dinner and drinks and I'm sure they know this themselves.

iamwhoiam · 21-03-2019 05:45PM

homosapien91 wrote: »

Finished watching this series last night.

I don't believe the parents had anything to do with her disappearance however I also don't believe for a second that they were checking on the children every 20/30 mins, they were having a few drinks with friends and you don't feel the time slipping by when drinking, when they eventually checked Madeleine was gone and this is something they will have to live with for the rest of their lives. They shouldn't have left the children alone to go out for dinner and drinks and I'm sure they know this themselves.

I just watched it and feel the same . The checking was dodgy as was the furtive nature of the group . I think they were covering their backs as they knew they hadn't checked the kids
I think it opened a door for an opportunist to go in an unlocked door and snatch a child
Into a car and long gone before they even missed her
Poor little Madeleine .

gozunda · 21-03-2019 05:46PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

I don't disagree, but once again, you are pulling up my post when PP just said:

You seem to take issue with my replies but not the posts I'm replying to? I think its fair to ask what PP thinks happened when making such bold, certain statements as the above, no?

No not 'your' posts. As detailed previously what the OP states in a post is clearly speculation. It does not negate any other speculation or scenario. That is the point.

This is what I said previously on this

yes there are all kind of possibilities as to what could have happened.

Both are theories which investigators have looked at as possible. Unfortunately the evidence of one or other scenarios is lacking. Hence we are still discussing this case.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057964455/5/#post109735297

yourdeadwright · 21-03-2019 05:56PM

As some have said, the fact since they have found millions of disgusting images from these disgusting groups and had there ears on traffickers and all sorts of horrible people and Maddy was never ever mentioned is very odd,

Not a peep about her , would lead me to believe see was never taken to be trafficked

Either a lone wolf or the parents,

I feel a lone wolf would have a harder job pulling it off than the parents would have,

,

SusieBlue · 21-03-2019 06:04PM

gozunda wrote: »

No not 'your' posts. As detailed previously what the OP states in a post is clearly speculation. It does not negate any other speculation or scenario. That is the point.

This is what I said previously on this

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057964455/5/#post109735297

So why don't you point the same out to those who categorically state she wasn't abducted and that her parents were definitively involved?

Its a bit rich that when I post about the abduction theory I'm constantly reminded that there's no proof of one, but when other people definitively state that the evidence of the McCann's guilt and involvement is right under our noses, they're merely "speculating"

The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann (Netflix)

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