Madeleine McCann

dark crystal · 21-03-2019 03:23PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

B_ecke_r wrote: »

no chance a child fits under that bed

But you'd still check if they were missing no?

The statement was made that the bed couldn't be looked under because it had a solid base, when in fact there was space underneath. Ergo, Kate could have checked under the bed contrary to the suggestion she was lying about doing so.

Calltocall · 21-03-2019 03:23PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I’d go for Option one with the Martin Smith sighting was of Madeleine Mccann being carried away as this individual has never presented to police.

Necro · 21-03-2019 03:24PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

It's possible that maybe a combination is true:

Scenario: Kate did sedate the children, completely unrelated to this the child was kidnapped, sedation made her easy to kidnap. Because she had sedated the children and abandoned them for long periods she felt guilty and lied about some facts to protect herself. The 7 friends at the restaurant were probably also sedating their children with the assistance of Kate, putting them all in a bad light, so they co-operated with the 'regular checks' story. Big problem with this is why would Kate or the intruder fake a window entry/exit?

Yeah, something about the sedation angle and abduction fits, particularly given reports from the previous night of Madeline supposedly asking why her parents never came when she cried.

A clusterfcuk of epic proportions by supposedly educated people regardless.

Necro · 21-03-2019 03:25PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I'd go option 1 to be more likely myself.

The obvious lies by the Mc Canns don't sit right with me still but that could be an emotional reaction as opposed to based on anything concrete.

gozunda · 21-03-2019 03:25PM

Something Else

pc7 wrote: »

I suppose option 4 'something else', wonder can we add poll to thread?

Sorry just added above

Not other imo. This is one of the main scenarios afaik - and the one proposed by the Portuguese investigation.

Personally as with Mazwell above - I dont subscribe to any one scenario lol

dark crystal · 21-03-2019 03:26PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Unsurprisingly I also choose option 1 as the most likely.

Wombatman · 21-03-2019 03:26PM

What was found on Sergey's hard drives that he didn't want to talk about?

Not finished new doc yet.

cnocbui · 21-03-2019 03:27PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Option 1

cgcsb · 21-03-2019 03:27PM

Something Else

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Yep, you'd look everywhere in the room. You'd tear it apart.

But mind not to wake the passed out twins? then leave them in the crime scene to go raise the alarm.

pc7 · 21-03-2019 03:28PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

ok think I've added a poll to the thread, I know we could have loads of options but kept it small, can you see it?

v638sg7k1a92bx · 21-03-2019 03:29PM

gozunda wrote: »

Who mentioned that deleting phone calls meant that they were 'guilty murder'? Exagerate much?

The deletion of call records of both Gerry and Kate McCann is yet just another jot in the long line of inexplicable facts of the case.

This and other issues coupled with the inconsistencies of the Tapas 7 were so remarkable that the Portuguese Police wished to undertake a reconstruction in order to help better understand what did happen that night. But unfortunately that failed as the various members of the group did not wish to participate in a reconstruction. Does it indicate anything in itself? Not particularly but that sure as hell prevented the investigation from finding out what actually happened on the night with regard to those who had last seen Madeleine alive....

It's quite easy to explain if you think about it rationally for more than 10 seconds.

You child is missing;
The Portuguese police are trying to stitch you up for abduction/murder;
The British tabloids are trawling through your personal life and printing misleading and inaccurate stories which have no basis in fact i.e. that they drugged their children;
Reporters are known for hacking into people's voicemail and personal belongings;
You have lost all faith in the police investigation not least because they think you did it but are also leaking inaccurate information to the media about DNA and cadaver scent while you are at risk of prosecution if you speak about the case;
The lead police investigator is a formal suspect in another case of a missing child.

Having that information. why would the parents want to participate in their own witch hunt?

5star02707 · 21-03-2019 03:31PM

Something Else

Wombatman wrote: »

What was found on Sergey's hard drives that he didn't want to talk about?

Not finished new doc yet.

p*rn*graphy of some sort, he was talking about cookies in those computers

Toots · 21-03-2019 03:32PM

Force Carrier wrote: »

I could be wrong but I don't see that the police dogs could do that.

Do you think the dog was trained to give the same response on signal from its handler that it would give when detecting the stimuli? With the intention that the handler could create false evidence when he or she wanted? That's a big ethical and professional allegation towards them. Not just corrupting justice on one occasion but premeditatively trained the dog to falsify evidence.

Aside from the moral side of it with the handler, I don't think a dog could handle the complexity and confusion of that dual role. Mixed signals so to speak.
Duplicity comes easily to people but the dog is capable of making an automated response to a particular trigger.

Personally, I don’t think the handler interfered with the dogs.

However, every time anyone mentions the cadaver dogs, the line gets trotted out that the handler knew which car was the Mc Canns (none of the other cars were in any way similar) and that the dogs were responding to either conscious or unconscious ques from the handler.

If it had all been done like a police line-up, with say, 5 of the same cars, all with Find Maddie leaflets on them, and the dog still alerted in the McCann’s car, it would be harder to dismiss the findings.

cgcsb · 21-03-2019 03:33PM

Something Else

Necro wrote: »

Yeah, something about the sedation angle and abduction fits, particularly given reports from the previous night of Madeline supposedly asking why her parents never came when she cried.

A clusterfcuk of epic proportions by supposedly educated people regardless.

This also fits with the twins not waking up until the next day despite an intruder and WW3 in the apartment. In this scenario the difficult task of the McCanns getting rid of the body doesn't arise. It also explains away the little white lies EXCEPT that window. If we could account for the window, that'd be everything in a neat little package

Toots · 21-03-2019 03:33PM

pc7 wrote: »

ok think I've added a poll to the thread, I know we could have loads of options but kept it small, can you see it?

Could we have the option of ticking more than one choice? I’m kinda 50/50 at the minute.

Wombatman · 21-03-2019 03:35PM

All are almost equally likely in my mind. If I had to pick I'd maybe go for option 2, it being the least bizarre.

cgcsb · 21-03-2019 03:35PM

Something Else

Wombatman wrote: »

What was found on Sergey's hard drives that he didn't want to talk about?

Not finished new doc yet.

Police didn't say what hard drive, he had many of them belonging to others. Did the police wipe them, did I hear that right?

cgcsb · 21-03-2019 03:37PM

Something Else

5star02707 wrote: »

p*rn*graphy of some sort, he was talking about cookies in those computers

show me a personal hard drive in the world without a pornography cookie

v638sg7k1a92bx · 21-03-2019 03:37PM

cgcsb wrote: »

The cadaver dog barked at the teddy bear. The bear that Madeline slept with every single night but not this night.

A dog barking at a Teddy bear is somehow proof of what exactly? This sounds like something out of Alice in Wonderland.

cgcsb wrote: »

Well we know the window scene was staged. Why would an intruder stage a scene to lead police to believe he came through the window.

So you know for a fact that the "window scene" was staged? Have you told the cops because I don't think they have this information?

cgcsb wrote: »

The scent evidence has not been discredited, it merely has not been backed up by DNA evidence.

"Scent evidence" is not evidence. It is an animal barking in a room, nothing more. Nobody can be convicted in a court of law on the basis of a dog barking.

cgcsb wrote: »

The forensics were inconclusive, they could only identify fragments that were consistent with all the other McCann children. That they couldn't find a single whole cell is also sort of suspicious, a good reason for that would be if the area was bleached destroying cells and leaving only fragments of DNA.

It's suspicious that the police found no evidence? So not only do the parents have to contend with inaccurate evidence, the fact that there is no evidence is proof of guilt in itself. That's a new one.

dark crystal · 21-03-2019 03:37PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

But mind not to wake the passed out twins? then leave them in the crime scene to go raise the alarm.

They were frantic, waking the twins would have been the least of their worries at the time!

How else was Kate supposed to raise the alarm without leaving the apartment?

cgcsb · 21-03-2019 03:48PM

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

A dog barking at a Teddy bear is somehow proof of what exactly?

The world's most respected cadaver dog trainer's dog. And independently the same man's blood dog.

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

So you know for a fact that the "window scene" was staged? Have you told the cops because I don't think they have this information?

Nobody got in or out of that window;

- Window ledge is about 2m high above the pavement, unless spiderman abducted her or 2 men with a ladder that nobody saw.

-Blind and window only open from inside

- All 3 children slept soundly through abduction (this would be possible of Kate sedated them)

- Any abductor watching the apartment would observe an unlocked door and not bother with the window

-no shoe prints, hand prints finger prints glove marks etc. on the window ledge, frame or bed

-Curtains remained tucked in through this window invasion...really??

-only print on the window was one on the glass, belonging to Kate McCann and shaped to imply pressure applied in the 'open' direction

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

"Scent evidence" is not evidence. It is an animal barking in a room, nothing more. Nobody can be convicted in a court of law on the basis of a dog barking.

it's not sufficient to secure a conviction you mean, it is evidence however.

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

It's suspicious that the police found no evidence? So not only do the parents have to contend with inaccurate evidence, the fact that there is no evidence is proof of guilt in itself. That's a new one.

Nope, forensics not finding a whole cell (belonging to anybody) means it's likely the boot of the car was very thoroughly cleaned/bleached. All they found was DNA fragments.

gozunda · 21-03-2019 03:52PM

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

It's quite easy to explain if you think about it rationally for more than 10 seconds.

You child is missing;
The Portuguese police are trying to stitch you up for abduction/murder;
The British tabloids are trawling through your personal life and printing misleading and inaccurate stories which have no basis in fact i.e. that they drugged their children;
Reporters are known for hacking into people's voicemail and personal belongings;
You have lost all faith in the police investigation not least because they think you did it but are also leaking inaccurate information to the media about DNA and cadaver scent while you are at risk of prosecution if you speak about the case;
The lead police investigator is a formal suspect in another case of a missing child.
Having that information. why would the parents want to participate in their own witch hunt?

Nope. And whatever about rationality, you spent more than 10 seconds on that lol ...

Until August 2097 - the parents were not 'suspects' and were not "trying to stitch (them) up for abduction/murder" (sic). Of interest It was Kate who raised the issue of the children being sedated afaik fairly early on.

Unfortunately the parents courted the press from the night the child disappeared and reaped what the Tabloids are well known for. They did the exact same thing to the lead investigator if that was any solace.

What I do see from the night in question is multiple inexplicable and unexplained inconsistencies which neither the mccanns nor their friends have ever explained.

But there you go ...

iamwhoiam · 21-03-2019 03:53PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

dark crystal wrote: »

They were frantic, waking the twins would have been the least of their worries at the time!

How else was Kate supposed to raise the alarm without leaving the apartment?

Shout . Apparently according to Gerry it was like dining in the back garden

It wasn't by the way unless you had a very large garden with a large pool and two paths and a row of bushes

qm1bv4p8i92aoj · 21-03-2019 03:59PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I honestly don't understand how posters on here cant see what is staring them in the face.

For me she was 100% abducted for what means we will never know.
The fact that the neighbour above the apartment saw a suspicious character acting very dodgy (closing the gate so quietly and carefully in the middle of the day) in around the McCanns apartment earlier that day in all likely hood he was doing some recon for his actions later.

Also the fact that the man (more than likely the recon man) carrying the Madeline lookalike towards the beach spotted by the Smiths has never come forward to rule himself out. This even after the unmissable worldwide media attention this got never mind if you were this man and had been holidaying in PdL innocently. No way anybody who had been in PdL around the time of the disappearance wouldn't have known about it.

This is the guy folks.

Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the one that requires the least speculation is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation.

What do I think of the Kate and Gerry McCann? I think a fair chunk of blame for why their daughter was abducted lies at their feet for how they were carrying on as parents. From leaving their kids alone to go socializing, leaving doors unlocked on to a main street, lying to the police about checking on them more frequently than they probably were to look better parents, no baby monitor, being too tight to fork out for a babysitter even though they were both well paid individuals. But don't forget bar maybe the baby monitor all the rest of the tapas crew were engaging in similar sh!tty behavior but they got away it unlike the McCanns.

Were they sh!tty parents on this holiday, imo undoubtedly yes. Did they kill and mastermind the disappearance of her body in full view of the worlds media, imo no and they will have to live with their actions causing the abduction of their daughter for the rest of their lives.

Plumbthedepths · 21-03-2019 04:06PM

dark crystal wrote:

Did you see the bed? It actually has legs. There's room enough under there for a small child to go under it.

It's a 3 inch gap at best, it's a child you are talking about not a cat.

Necro · 21-03-2019 04:11PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Eileen Zealous Storefront wrote: »

I honestly don't understand how posters on here cant see what is staring them in the face.

For me she was 100% abducted for what means we will never know.
The fact that the neighbour above the apartment saw a suspicious character acting very dodgy (closing the gate so quietly and carefully in the middle of the day) in around the McCanns apartment earlier that day in all likely hood he was doing some recon for his actions later.

Also the fact that the man (more than likely the recon man) carrying the Madeline lookalike towards the beach spotted by the Smiths has never come forward to rule himself out. This even after the unmissable worldwide media attention this got never mind if you were this man and had been holidaying in PdL innocently. No way anybody who had been in PdL around the time of the disappearance wouldn't have known about it.

This is the guy folks.

Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the one that requires the least speculation is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation.

What do I think of the Kate and Gerry McCann? I think a fair chunk of blame for why their daughter was abducted lies at their feet for how they were carrying on as parents. From leaving their kids alone to go socializing, leaving doors unlocked on to a main street, lying to the police about checking on them more frequently than they probably were to look better parents, no baby monitor, being too tight to fork out for a babysitter even though they were both well paid individuals. But don't forget bar maybe the baby monitor all the rest of the tapas crew were engaging in similar sh!tty behavior but they got away it unlike the McCanns.

Were they sh!tty parents on this holiday, imo undoubtedly yes. Did they kill and mastermind the disappearance of her body in full view of the worlds media, imo no and they will have to live with their actions causing the abduction of their daughter for the rest of their lives.

I feel this way mostly too - BUT

the lies to the police give me slight pause for thought.

If it was my child abducted I wouldn't lie about anything, no matter how bad it made me look. I'd just want them found if at all possible.

And that's what the Mc Canns have done by telling white lies (or larger) here and there. Invited conspiracy theories and all associated thoughts down on top of them, and they don't deserve any sympathy for that as far as I'm concerned.

cgcsb · 21-03-2019 04:16PM

Something Else

Eileen Zealous Storefront wrote: »

I honestly don't understand how posters on here cant see what is staring them in the face.

For me she was 100% abducted for what means we will never know.
The fact that the neighbour above the apartment saw a suspicious character acting very dodgy (closing the gate so quietly and carefully in the middle of the day) in around the McCanns apartment earlier that day in all likely hood he was doing some recon for his actions later.

Also the fact that the man (more than likely the recon man) carrying the Madeline lookalike towards the beach spotted by the Smiths has never come forward to rule himself out. This even after the unmissable worldwide media attention this got never mind if you were this man and had been holidaying in PdL innocently. No way anybody who had been in PdL around the time of the disappearance wouldn't have known about it.

This is the guy folks.

Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the one that requires the least speculation is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation.

What do I think of the Kate and Gerry McCann? I think a fair chunk of blame for why their daughter was abducted lies at their feet for how they were carrying on as parents. From leaving their kids alone to go socializing, leaving doors unlocked on to a main street, lying to the police about checking on them more frequently than they probably were to look better parents, no baby monitor, being too tight to fork out for a babysitter even though they were both well paid individuals. But don't forget bar maybe the baby monitor all the rest of the tapas crew were engaging in similar sh!tty behavior but they got away it unlike the McCanns.

Were they sh!tty parents on this holiday, imo undoubtedly yes. Did they kill and mastermind the disappearance of her body in full view of the worlds media, imo no and they will have to live with their actions causing the abduction of their daughter for the rest of their lives.

Do you believe that Kate McCann medicated the children?

Do you have a theory explaining the window?

pc7 · 21-03-2019 04:18PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Eileen Zealous Storefront wrote: »

Also the fact that the man (more than likely the recon man) carrying the Madeline lookalike towards the beach spotted by the Smiths has never come forward to rule himself out. This even after the unmissable worldwide media attention this got never mind if you were this man and had been holidaying in PdL innocently. No way anybody who had been in PdL around the time of the disappearance wouldn't have known about it.

was that not a gp who came forward later? or was that the Jane Tanner guy?

pc7 · 21-03-2019 04:19PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Was a reason given why the McCanns et al wouldn't be questioned by Scotland Yard (or am I imagining that?)

shamrock55 · 21-03-2019 04:19PM

Something Else

If I walked into an apartment like Kate did and thought someone had just been there and taken my child I wouldn't be running out alerting other while at the same time leaving my other kids there, first thing I'd be doing is grabbing them and getting them the hell outta there

Madeleine McCann

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