Madeleine McCann

goat2 · 21-03-2019 10:33AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

they can be3 guilty of leaving children on their own,
but I don't think they had anything to do with her disappearance
police looking for open and shut case in the name of tourism
I hope she is found

21-03-2019 10:51AM

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goat2 wrote: »

they can be3 guilty of leaving children on their own,
but I don't think they had anything to do with her disappearance
police looking for open and shut case in the name of tourism
I hope she is found

Its a cop out to suggest that the police just wanted an open and shut case.
They investigated Murat and other leads.
They became suspicious of the McCanns and Tapas 9 for several reasons.
Kate originally jumping to the abduction theory.
Their stories didn't add up and changed multiple times.
The window could only be opened from inside. Why would the abductor go out the window with a child in his arms when he could just walk out the door?
Maddie's bed was neat and tidy.
Furniture had been moved.
Cuddle Cat had been washed.
And of course, the dogs detecting the smell of death / blood in the apartment and the car.

There was more than enough evidence to at the very least suspect the McCanns might know more.

Butson · 21-03-2019 10:57AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

People saying there was nothing new in the documentary.
For the casual viewer and people who had an interest in the case, there is loads of new info. The die hards who are obsessed with the case probably knew it all but they must be in a minority.

Really interesting to hear the Spanish investigator. and Mr Grimes. I didn't know about most of the sightings....the guy trying to abduct the girl and her mother interrupted them, after he had called to the house the day prior? That is massive.
Another guy who crept into the kids bedroom and lay down on the bed beside them? Creepy as hell.
The Australian woman approaching the men in Barcelona enquiring about the child then hurrying off?

For me the best sighting is the Dutch couple in Morocco 3 days after she went missing. They were devastated they hadn't acted on it and are now convinced it was her.

cgcsb · 21-03-2019 11:02AM

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scamalert wrote: »

so true its so little known about them so called friends were they even close or anything, as it seems one thing in common all of them had young kids, and somehow none of them bothered to leave em say with close family home as booking for such large group to take hold in advance would of taken months preparations to sort dates work etc, and to tag along kids who you wont bother to look after as well ?

just doesn't sit right for relaxing holiday idea.

It is strange. Like unless you happen to be a group of extreme savers who are really boring (eating and drinking in the same place every night on a holiday is not a holiday as far as I can see). And also they must all happen to be quite cold to their own children to not want to take them to dinner with them even once during the week and instead abandoned them in open door apartments at night and inform the staff of this bizzar arrangement.

cgcsb · 21-03-2019 11:04AM

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dark crystal wrote: »

5 bottles between 9 people at dinner seems excessive to you? Just over half a bottle each... Fair enough.

They block booked the table for the same time every night of their holiday, why would the times be so confusing for them?

Kate McCann said that she had a 'couple' of glasses of wine before going out to dinner, no doubt to calm the nerves, every performer worth their salt does same.

cgcsb · 21-03-2019 11:06AM

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dark crystal wrote: »

We've been over the fact they left the children alone numerous times and have been warned about continuing down that line, so it's a moot point at this stage.

Any viable theories on what happened to Madeleine?

Perhaps it would be easier to form a viable theory if the McCanns answered the various questions put to them and told the truth.

cgcsb · 21-03-2019 11:16AM

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Mike9832 wrote: »

Yeah I liked him, the whole thing sickened him you could feel.

Kennedy lad was a complete moron alright, his father wasn't much better.

When he said in his intro, 'when I met Kate McCann, I knew staight away she was innocent'... like, lol, said no half decent PI ever. He was paid by the Kennedys to come up with a certain conclusion and blow smoke up that young fella's hole, he did the later, obviously the former wasn't possible but he used the time for a good cause.

It's also telling that a complex operation like the abduction of Madeline McCann that subsequently became the worlds most famous missing child case took place in the Algarve and the biggest peado ring in the region knows nothing about it.

Boom_Bap · 21-03-2019 11:18AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

Perhaps it would be easier to form a viable theory if the McCanns answered the various questions put to them and told the truth.

At the point they were asked the questions, it was when the PJ and media were turning on them to paint them as the bad guys.
I can completely understand why they refused to answer questions at that time as anything borderline they responded to would be twisted.

Also, the 'interviews' by the PJ were hours and hours long. This is a police tactic used in interview to wear you down and make you less concentrated on your answers.

cgcsb · 21-03-2019 11:20AM

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Mike9832 wrote: »

How long would it even take to check 4-5 apartments?

Walk there and back, different sets of keys, half closed doors, front door entrance, back door entrance, stairs, gates, bedrooms, crazy stuff

They would have never all sat together if they checked every 20 mins and thats not likely

So pissed off they never did a reconstruction, even Netflix could have done one

Such a load of bull**** thosw checks

Staff in the restaurant said that checks were infrequent and didn't happen at all some nights. No doubt the staff were paying attention because they were all aware of the bizzar booking and child abandonment.

cgcsb · 21-03-2019 11:26AM

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pc7 wrote: »

I finished it last night, I found the final episode deeply disturbing with all the talk of pedophile rings, its actually fooking heartbreaking and terrifying at the same time. Fair play to the spanish investigator he seemed to do great work, I don't know how the like of Grimes can do that work daily it must break you down. The lady from the Innocence project is right, why isn't more being done to track down, trace and get these bastards. Those poor poor kids, I just don't understand how there can be so many photos in those books.

If a small % of the time and money spent on gagging people who criticised the McCanns, banning books, Scotland Yard and bogus PI companies investigating only one vaguely possible scenario etc. was instead spent on actual child protection, peadophilia would have ceased to exist by now.

cgcsb · 21-03-2019 11:28AM

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goat2 wrote: »

they can be3 guilty of leaving children on their own,
but I don't think they had anything to do with her disappearance
police looking for open and shut case in the name of tourism
I hope she is found

They investigated multiple scenarios though, only stopped looking when the case against the McCanns became seriously heavy (the preliminary DNA results seemed to point to their guilt).

21-03-2019 11:33AM

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cgcsb wrote: »

Staff in the restaurant said that checks were infrequent and didn't happen at all some nights. No doubt the staff were paying attention because they were all aware of the bizzar booking and child abandonment.

Based on the statements of the tapas 9, its hard to understand how they were even sitting down and having a meal together.
David Payne I believe only arrived at the table at 9pm. Jane and Gerry were both gone shortly after 9pm. Matthew was away at about 09:30. Kate was gone at 10pm. Jane said that Gerry was away for ages watching football.
Given that the checks must take a few mins at least, were they ever all at the table together. Was it possible to order food together?
I believe one of them even stayed home that evening.

There is also a lot of misunderstanding about these checks. Did 1 person check on all the kids? That doesn't seem to be the case. Jane went to check on her kids while Gerry was checking on his. Matthew Oldfield just happened to volunteer to check for the McCanns at 09:30pm.

Its a very strange set up, having all of these people sitting at a table and constantly getting up to check on kids.

cgcsb · 21-03-2019 12:02PM

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Butson wrote: »

Really interesting to hear the Spanish investigator. and Mr Grimes. I didn't know about most of the sightings....the guy trying to abduct the girl and her mother interrupted them, after he had called to the house the day prior? That is massive.

That is interesting alright.

Butson wrote: »

Another guy who crept into the kids bedroom and lay down on the bed beside them? Creepy as hell.

I found that very scary but I doubt the truth of it. Who seen this, just the kid? the parents didn't see this? was it a dream?

Butson wrote: »

The Australian woman approaching the men in Barcelona enquiring about the child then hurrying off?

People in Barcelona saying weird stuff to you at 2am is not uncommon. Also lets assume for a moment that there was a woman looking for a new child, she was in Barcelona, it was 2am. There was no way they would have arranged to meet her only 4 hours after grabbing the girl. They couldn't get on a plane with the child, they could hardly take 3 trains without being caught. Car would be the only option, not a hope you'd have any expectation of driving from the Algarve to Barcelona in only 4 hours.

pc7 · 21-03-2019 12:08PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

That is interesting alright.

I found that very scary but I doubt the truth of it. Who seen this, just the kid? the parents didn't see this? was it a dream?

Did it not say this happened to 11 children?

cgcsb · 21-03-2019 12:09PM

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Deleted User wrote: »

Based on the statements of the tapas 9, its hard to understand how they were even sitting down and having a meal together.
David Payne I believe only arrived at the table at 9pm. Jane and Gerry were both gone shortly after 9pm. Matthew was away at about 09:30. Kate was gone at 10pm. Jane said that Gerry was away for ages watching football.
Given that the checks must take a few mins at least, were they ever all at the table together. Was it possible to order food together?
I believe one of them even stayed home that evening.

There is also a lot of misunderstanding about these checks. Did 1 person check on all the kids? That doesn't seem to be the case. Jane went to check on her kids while Gerry was checking on his. Matthew Oldfield just happened to volunteer to check for the McCanns at 09:30pm.

Its a very strange set up, having all of these people sitting at a table and constantly getting up to check on kids.

Matthew Oldfield didn't even check the kids, he just went into the apartment and heard a sound from outside the room and said 'that's grand' and walked out. Like imagine saying you'll check on your friend's kids for them and almost do it but then not do it. Is there no guilt there? like if he had checked followed promptly after Kate, an abductor would have had little opportunity to actually carry it through.

Not to mention that an abduction involving the window wasn't possible.

cgcsb · 21-03-2019 12:10PM

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pc7 wrote: »

Did it not say this happened to 11 children?

Must have missed that. 11 children? no parents witnessed it? do kids not scream ?

pc7 · 21-03-2019 12:14PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

Must have missed that. 11 children? no parents witnessed it? do kids not scream ?

I thought they said over the span of a certain time that this happened to 11 kids, just did a quick google and found this (Smaller number but may have changed over time) https://www.thejournal.ie/madeleine-mccann-suspect-1369871-Mar2014/

eta - I know adults who didn't scream when they were broken into and someone was standing over them so very hard to say how anyone would react.

Toots · 21-03-2019 12:28PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Just watched that bit again, that's hilarious.

The investigator is saying 'at the time, he did not know which car belonged to which individual' while the Find Madeline flyers are in the window. I didn't notice that the first time around.

Other cars, he guides his hand around to show the dog where to look.
On the Scenic, he calls the dog back and taps on the car. It could all be normal as far as getting the dogs attention to get to work, and we don't see all the footage from the other car searches.
The dog doesn't bark where he tapped though.

But yeah, I think that he probably knew which car was theirs given the number of times it was in the press.

Yeah, I found the car bit to be very confusing. It would have been much more of a reliable result if they'd gotten 5 silver Renault scenics and then stuck a few "find Madeleine" stickers on them and then let the dogs search those. That way it would have been more of a blind test and there wouldn't be accusations that the handler interfered because he knew which car was which.

I felt really sorry for the Spanish PI guy. You could just tell that whatever horrific stuff he saw during his investigation still haunts him.

yourdeadwright · 21-03-2019 12:36PM

Accident happened, parents hid body

A couple of things that really bugged me

One was the Kennedy fella saying the Police in Portugal just wanted anyone to pin it on so went after the Mc Cann and how disgusting it was , BUT then one minute later his own son (what a muppet) and the investigator are petrol bombing the Russian lads car to try get him to confess when its obvious he was totally innocent,

The Kennedy family seem thick as two planks and where being rinsed for cash by the super private investigator, So good he that let the Kennedy son with zero experience tag along ? how did they see that as a good idea ?

Second is the blonde reporter who quote's, " it was at this point I would never believe what the police said again" , Your a reporter you don't take side's , It completely normal and natural that if someone lie's about something they could be telling the truth about something else,

With all the money and resources put to this and for nothing to ever come up or be heard about Maddy from the local gangs or any of the underworld , Wouldn't it make you think maybe there is nothing because she was never taken ?

pc7 · 21-03-2019 12:42PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

yourdeadwright wrote: »

With all the money and resources put to this and for nothing to ever come up or be heard about Maddy from the local gangs or any of the underworld , Wouldn't it make you think maybe there is nothing because she was never taken ?

But didn't the innocence people (or was it police) have transcript that showed the Belgian pedophile ring had put out an 'order' for someone similar to her? I'm getting a bit confused by it all so apologies if wrong.

Boom_Bap · 21-03-2019 12:45PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

The Spanish PI and the Officer from Northern Ireland are the 2 people that I would listen to the most after watching the documentary. They seemed to be the most honest of people that were part of the documentary.
The Portuguese reporter was obviously being led during the first few years on how to report, she seems to regret that now.

pc7 · 21-03-2019 12:51PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Boom_Bap wrote: »

The Spanish PI and the Officer from Northern Ireland are the 2 people that I would listen to the most after watching the documentary. They seemed to be the most honest of people that were part of the documentary.

Totally agree, thought Grimes initial 'feeling' to Gerry was very interesting, wouldn't think there are many flies on him.

dark crystal · 21-03-2019 12:58PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

Perhaps it would be easier to form a viable theory if the McCanns answered the various questions put to them and told the truth.

They did answer questions, plenty of them. Their statements are available to view online.

It was only after they were made arguidos they stopped answering questions on the advice of their lawyer.

It's only your assertion that they weren't telling the truth. You have no idea whether they were truthful or not as you weren't there.

cgcsb · 21-03-2019 01:03PM

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I don't buy the line that the Police wanted to pin it on the McCanns simply for the sake of regional tourism. Like if they had pinned in on the McCanns and then a serial abductor continued to do same in the region thereafter then the police would be back to square one.

There was also some pish in that documentary perhaps related to the alleged string of break ins at tourist apartments, saying that parents should have been warned and maybe then they'd not abandon their children every night. Like as if it's the governments responsibility to tell you not to engage in utterly reckless behaviour with young children.

cgcsb · 21-03-2019 01:06PM

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dark crystal wrote: »

It's only your assertion that they weren't telling the truth. You have no idea whether they were truthful or not as you weren't there.

No, we know Kate lied about looking under the bed for example. The bed had a solid base

We know she opened the window with the palm of her hand on the glass, and didn't use the handle.

runningbuddy · 21-03-2019 01:08PM

If the Portugese had it in for the McCanns, they surely would have pursued charging them with child neglect??

Boom_Bap · 21-03-2019 01:09PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

runningbuddy wrote: »

If the Portugese had it in for the McCanns, they surely would have pursued charging them with child neglect??

Please don't start this again.
Please.
Thank You.

yourdeadwright · 21-03-2019 01:13PM

Accident happened, parents hid body

Would I be correct in saying Cadavers can not be tested and need DNA to back them up
Or are Cadavers themselves something that can be tested

Force Carrier · 21-03-2019 01:33PM

Toots wrote: »

that the handler interfered

I could be wrong but I don't see that the police dogs could do that.

Do you think the dog was trained to give the same response on signal from its handler that it would give when detecting the stimuli? With the intention that the handler could create false evidence when he or she wanted? That's a big ethical and professional allegation towards them. Not just corrupting justice on one occasion but premeditatively trained the dog to falsify evidence.

Aside from the moral side of it with the handler, I don't think a dog could handle the complexity and confusion of that dual role. Mixed signals so to speak.
Duplicity comes easily to people but the dog is capable of making an automated response to a particular trigger.

cnocbui · 21-03-2019 01:42PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Force Carrier wrote: »

I could be wrong but I don't see that the police dogs could do that.

Do you think the dog was trained to give the same response on signal from its handler that it would give when detecting the stimuli? With the intention that the handler could create false evidence when he or she wanted? That's a big ethical and professional allegation towards them. Not just corrupting justice on one occasion but premeditatively trained the dog to falsify evidence.

Aside from the moral side of it with the handler, I don't think a dog could handle the complexity and confusion of that dual role. Mixed signals so to speak.
Duplicity comes easily to people but the dog is capable of making an automated response to a particular trigger.

So, you think horses are smarter than dogs?

Madeleine McCann

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