Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Kevtherev1 · 14-03-2019 08:24PM

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The MetroLink business case is going to naturally be a lot stronger than MN because the line is a lot longer but the costs are almost the same.

The MN business case was hairy for sure, and the Northside of the ML route does have some problems.

But the ML business case is worlds apart from the MN business case. The longer route and the incorporation of the green line upgrade changes things completely.

You are quite right that if south of Charlemont were to be taken out of the equation (which it hasn’t) then the business case becomes very weak.

Yes correct spot on. The cost benefit analysis for metrolink will be reduced if they only do the northern part of the emerging preferred route.
A metroline delivering dozens of passengers to a luas charlement line every two minutes. I dont think so the luas capacity would buckle to crush capacity very quickly.

Another factor if metro south is cancelled or postponed well that means no luas green line extensions to finglas or bray can proceed. Both extensions would have to be cancelled if metro south does not happen.

For those reasons i still believe now that by the end of the month the south metro element will be still included in the preferred route. The ripple affect of not doing metro south will become apparent to people in the near future.

jd · 14-03-2019 09:32PM

Kevtherev1 wrote: »

Another factor if metro south is cancelled or postponed well that means no luas green line extensions to finglas or bray can proceed.

While I agree a Luas extension to Bray could not proceed, I'm not so sure that is the case for an extension to Finglas.
What would have ruled it out is the Luas D2 option that was in the North Dublin Transport Study. This would have gone Cabra->Undergound->At surface up Ballymun Rd and on to airport

Idbatterim · 15-03-2019 12:32AM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/commuters-group-calls-for-end-to-scaremongering-about-public-transport-proposals-1.3826492?mode=amp

Fair bloody play to them. You can tell what a Mickey Mouse operation the whole scheme is though, they are prepared to let a several billion euro scheme be scuppered, because they won’t spent a few thousand countering all the lies? It’s pathetic.

CatInABox · 15-03-2019 11:22AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/commuters-group-calls-for-end-to-scaremongering-about-public-transport-proposals-1.3826492?mode=amp

Fair bloody play to them. You can tell what a Mickey Mouse operation the whole scheme is though, they are prepared to let a several billion euro scheme be scuppered, because they won’t spent a few thousand countering all the lies? It’s pathetic.

They seem to be moving the needle a little bit alright, great to see. They also got an article in one of the papers about Kate O'Connell complaining about BusConnects, but not acknowledging that she'll lose parking outside her business.

Not sure how many here have joined their facebook group, but you can do so here. I know that it seems like it does nothing, but the numbers on these facebook groups are important, even if you can't get to any meetings. Journalists use the membership numbers to see if a group is worth talking to, so the more people who join, the better.

Idbatterim · 15-03-2019 11:33AM

They should have called it the swords to sandyford metrolink, counter this fake news about it being a link to the bloody airport!

It will be interesting to see what the next plan is , terminating it at Charlemont, simply creates to many issues, that are too big to ignore, as much as some politicians etc might not like that ...

CatInABox · 15-03-2019 11:36AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

They should have called it the swords to sandyford metrolink, counter this fake news about it being a link to the bloody airport!

It will be interesting to see what the next plan is , terminating it at Charlemont, simply creates to many issues, that are too big to ignore, as much as some politicians etc might not like that ...

If it "terminates" at Charlemont, then it'll hook into the Luas a year or two later.

Idbatterim · 15-03-2019 11:38AM

CatInABox wrote: »

If it "terminates" at Charlemont, then it'll hook into the Luas a year or two later.

When will we have an update from nta?

cgcsb · 15-03-2019 11:48AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

When will we have an update from nta?

Unlikely this month, May looks like a more realistic timeline.

Conchir · 15-03-2019 11:51AM

CatInABox wrote: »

They seem to be moving the needle a little bit alright, great to see. They also got an article in one of the papers about Kate O'Connell complaining about BusConnects, but not acknowledging that she'll lose parking outside her business.

Not sure how many here have joined their facebook group, but you can do so here. I know that it seems like it does nothing, but the numbers on these facebook groups are important, even if you can't get to any meetings. Journalists use the membership numbers to see if a group is worth talking to, so the more people who join, the better.

They’re also on Twitter. Even if you don’t like Twitter, the odd like or retweet can go a long way to getting something noticed, and they’ve been doing good work there countering falsehoods.

CatInABox · 15-03-2019 11:52AM

cgcsb wrote: »

Unlikely this month, May looks like a more realistic timeline.

New news? Last we heard from Shane Ross was the second half of March.

cgcsb · 15-03-2019 12:03PM

CatInABox wrote: »

New news? Last we heard from Shane Ross was the second half of March.

Work is being done on alternative alignments e.g. to Rathfarnham or terminating at Charlemont, I believe only for the purpose of rubbishing those 'options'. Terminating at Charlemont (as a phase 1 of 2 fudge) for political reasons (nimby and saving a miniscule amount of CapEx in light of the Children's Hospital debacle) remains on the table afaik.

However the Cherrywood SDZ depends on Metro South, the state would be opening it's self to more headaches cancelling the Cherrywood SDZ which is already under construction. If developers are stopped from building as a result, the state will have to compensate them, but that'll be after elections. Not to mention the growing cost of the housing crisis. The state is now spending more on HAP than would be required to build an adequate stock of social homes over a 2-3 year period.

LeinsterDub · 15-03-2019 12:35PM

cgcsb wrote: »

Unlikely this month, May looks like a more realistic timeline.

Ross said in the Dail yesterday he's still hoping for this month.

madbeanman · 15-03-2019 01:45PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/commuters-group-calls-for-end-to-scaremongering-about-public-transport-proposals-1.3826492?mode=amp

Fair bloody play to them. You can tell what a Mickey Mouse operation the whole scheme is though, they are prepared to let a several billion euro scheme be scuppered, because they won’t spent a few thousand countering all the lies? It’s pathetic.

So obviously I agree with this group and its great that they exist and all but I always balk at people who say they represent the "true voice" of non-monolithic group X or Y. You dont change the minds of people who disagree with you by saying they dont represent the regions in which they have spent all their lives (or in which they are trying to build lives).

Moreover the article was super devoid of substance. Why should someone who is dead against the metro support it based on that article. Either the Irish times didnt give them an opportunity to defend the metro in the piece or they didnt try.

bk · 15-03-2019 02:16PM

madbeanman wrote: »

So obviously I agree with this group and its great that they exist and all but I always balk at people who say they represent the "true voice" of non-monolithic group X or Y. You dont change the minds of people who disagree with you by saying they dont represent the regions in which they have spent all their lives (or in which they are trying to build lives).

I'd say they aren't trying to change the minds of the relatively small numbers of objectors. Instead they are giving a voice to the hundreds of thousands of people who commute every day and who are crying out for these projects.

It is about giving some balance to the almost completely negative media coverage that we have been experiencing recently.

cgcsb · 15-03-2019 02:32PM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Ross said in the Dail yesterday he's still hoping for this month.

He can hope, looks extremely doubtful at this point

madbeanman · 15-03-2019 03:43PM

bk wrote: »

I'd say they aren't trying to change the minds of the relatively small numbers of objectors. Instead they are giving a voice to the hundreds of thousands of people who commute every day and who are crying out for these projects.

It is about giving some balance to the almost completely negative media coverage that we have been experiencing recently.

I totally get that and again am thankful for their work.
I just don't think anyone should claim to be the voice of the people because like who knows? Show me a survey.

Also, I think its a bit weird for people on here to be expecting positive commentary around this. Like newspapers and the media are a million times more likely to publish a negative opinion than a positive one. They sell more, they are less likely to be accused of being establishment........there are loads of reasons.

It just wont happen.

CatInABox · 15-03-2019 04:50PM

madbeanman wrote: »

I totally get that and again am thankful for their work.
I just don't think anyone should claim to be the voice of the people because like who knows? Show me a survey.

Also, I think its a bit weird for people on here to be expecting positive commentary around this. Like newspapers and the media are a million times more likely to publish a negative opinion than a positive one. They sell more, they are less likely to be accused of being establishment........there are loads of reasons.

It just wont happen.

Except that's what lobby groups have to do. No one will take a group seriously if they said "we represent our members views, and only our members views." If you want a say in what they represent, then sign up and go to one of their meetings.

prunudo · 15-03-2019 07:21PM

I think aswell though that are trying to show that there is a group that will represent the 100,000s of commuters who don't have a voice at present.
Theres a silent majority out there that will benefit from these projects and there hasn't been anybody or group shouting for them to date.
Hopefully their numbers grow and show the politicans that the objectors really are a small minority.

markpb · 16-03-2019 08:24AM

madbeanman wrote: »

Also, I think its a bit weird for people on here to be expecting positive commentary around this. Like newspapers and the media are a million times more likely to publish a negative opinion than a positive one. They sell more, they are less likely to be accused of being establishment........there are loads of reasons.

A headline line "congestion grows as government dithers on metro decision" is just as negative and likely to be read by outraged newspapers readers as the current batch of codswallop about Ranleagh.

M50Jct15 · 16-03-2019 08:56PM

Sadly, the media almost never seem to publish the news with a pro-development caption/slant.

Grandeeod · 16-03-2019 11:36PM

jvan wrote: »

I think aswell though that are trying to show that there is a group that will represent the 100,000s of commuters who don't have a voice at present.
Theres a silent majority out there that will benefit from these projects and there hasn't been anybody or group shouting for them to date.
Hopefully their numbers grow and show the politicans that the objectors really are a small minority.

From 2003 to 2008 Platform 11 did lots of shouting for rail commuters/projects. They burst onto the scene and were go to people for media commentary. A no holes barred approach won the media over and got them a place at the table of politicians, state bodies and consultants. They received tonnes of criticism for their approach on Boards,ie, yet are more ingrained in the last 16 years of rail infrastructure history than any voluntary lobby ever where. I hope this new lobby take note. Throughout the period I mentioned, there was rarely a media debate about Metro, luas and DART that didn't include Platform 11. That's what they have to aim for. Only then can they make an impact. As I've said before I think their spectrum is too broad to have any maintained momentum for rail based transport, but I wish them well.

As a side note Platform 11 morphed into rail users Ireland and lost its focus very quickly once the original founders left. It is a monumental battle to take on the politicians and state bodies and those who have distorted/stupid vested interests in projects. Being nice and civil doesn't work. It will never work for a non state lobby. I can absolutely say that if a lobby like Platform 11 were around today, all the BS and disinformation around Metrolink would have been exposed in the media months ago. Note sure if current posters remember Platform 11, but it was a ground breaking time. I wish we had it back these days.

Grandeeod · 20-03-2019 11:52PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Metrolink didn't come up and it wasn't the story the reporter wanted to tell. She asked for the reason behind startng the group. Which was started to advocate for public transport users and all the issues they have. Correcting misinformation is part of what we do because it clashes with the core ideal of allowing the city to give its informed consent. There's no point in trying to convince diehard anti-metrolink people, we need to focus on the rest of the city.

I assume you are involved in this group. I wish you guys the very best. Its a long long road but it is genuinely refreshing to see people out there trying to do something and I hope projects like DU and Metrolink feature in your future media appearances.

Idbatterim · 21-03-2019 06:15PM

https://www.facebook.com/513014259/posts/10157321915739260?sfns=mo

Have to say, fair okay to this group. The likes of Kenny and the media will come out with little facts, wrong information and an agenda. They repeat it until people just take it as the truth. They need to be taken apart!

The fact that the idiot politicians or anyone in planning , the nta etx actually think terminating it at Charlemont is a runner, show you they should be nowhere near the project. If they go with that farce proposal, it’s worse than not connecting luas from the get go, the m50 farce etc!

There is one other big factor in my opinion. The biggest loud mouths of All, ie pensioners, (who politicians bend over backwards for ) don’t for the most part, tend to use it as peak hours! If they did, no doubt not upgrading the green line etc would be seen as an attack on the mobility of the elderly or the usual bull**** token terms they throw around..

Idbatterim · 21-03-2019 06:21PM

The group is welcome. But crowd finding a few thousand euro and putting up on social media and about the implications this farce will have on tens of thousands of commuters and the city , would probably be far more effective and near immediate! They are spineless and weak , they fold like a house of cards in the wind, if they think it will cost them votes!

jd · 22-03-2019 08:56PM

Presentation to Public Representatives on Tuesday afternoon about the updated Metrolink Design. I'd expect the revised designs to be online that day, or the day after.

Separately there was a meeting with residents of College Gate, and it looks like TII/NTA intend to proceed with building the station there. I think if there was a viable alternative site they'd use it instead.

https://twitter.com/gretatumiatti/status/1108867881956245509

prunudo · 22-03-2019 09:10PM

jd wrote: »

I think if there was a viable alternative site they'd use it instead.

I don't think that will register with the people who will be jumping up and down trying to get the project delayed, postponed and even cancelled full stop.

Synode · 22-03-2019 09:32PM

Anyone know the building she mentions in the replies to the tweet and why it wasn't used

https://twitter.com/gretatumiatti/status/1109171043455954945?s=19

marno21 · 22-03-2019 10:28PM

The NTA are also in front of the Transport Committtee Wednesday. Looks like progress at last

LeinsterDub · 22-03-2019 10:33PM

marno21 wrote: »

The NTA are also in front of the Transport Committtee Wednesday. Looks like progress at last

If the NTA were actually true to form they'd issue a press release instead and leave an empty chair at the committee. They need a press officer who can defend these projects beyond the initial release of information

Muahahaha · 22-03-2019 10:44PM

Just on College Gate its a bummer for those who are actually owner occupiers who have been living there long term. However I get the impression they are in the minority in that block, it seems to be mainly buy to let investors who own apartments there. Landlords will just take the CPO money and invest it in property elsewhere.

In any case would it really be that hard for the NTA in the CPO to do a deal whereby an owner occupier gets guaranteed first refusal on the new apartments at the current market price when they are knocked down. It wouldn't be that hard to make it a condition of sale with the eventual developer to let them back in when it does gets rebuilt. Whatever gets built there will likely be taller and have a lot more than the current 70 apartments so the developer will still be making his money, maybe just a little less (or maybe more if prices drop in the meantime). CPOs are necessary but this instance is unusual in that its being knocked and then rebuilt all over again. Its not much to stipulate that if the long term owner occupiers are willing to undergo 2 years of renting elsewhere then they should be allowed first refusal to move back in at no financial cost to themselves.

I doubt it would be allowed happen that way but it should really in an instance of a building being knocked and rebuilt all over again. In any case it has to be College Gate that gets knocked, Hawkins and Apollo are no longer alternatives, those ships have sailed.

Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

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