Madeleine McCann

iamwhoiam · 20-03-2019 03:40PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

dark crystal wrote: »

Why is 'seen' in brackets? Was everyone who gave police statements placing Gerry at the Ocean Club at 10pm lying? Why?

Surely people other than Martin Smith saw Gerry carrying his dead little girl? How far are the cliffs from the Ocean Club (there and back?)

10 mins there at least .

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 03:40PM

iamwhoiam wrote:

Nonsence . The risk was huge that he would be spotted

Martin Smith claims that he was 60/80 per cent positive he saw GMcC around 10pm and still to the best of my knowledge maintains that position.

Boom_Bap · 20-03-2019 03:41PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Brief light hearted interlude:

The one certified true crime in this whole saga is the amount of 3/4 length trousers that Gerry McCann owns.

Continue.

cnocbui · 20-03-2019 03:41PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

What better way to hide than in plain site.

A white van.

iamwhoiam · 20-03-2019 03:41PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Martin Smith claims that he was 60/80 per cent positive he saw GMcC around 10pm and still to the best of my knowledge maintains that position.

Why did no one else see him so .

SteM · 20-03-2019 03:42PM

My understanding of the Smith sighting is that he was watching the BBC news when Gerry McCann was coming back to the UK the following September. He looked at McCann walking down the steps of the plane and based on his walk, the way he turned his head and the way he held his child Smith said at that point he was 60-80% sure that it was Gerry McCann he'd seen the previous May.

I don't understand why sighting has any credibility. He was just a man that happened to see something he couldn't be sure of and between May and September worried himself into thinking it was Gerry McCann.

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 03:42PM

dark crystal wrote:

Why is 'seen' in brackets? Was everyone who gave police statements placing Gerry at the Ocean Club at 10pm lying? Why?

I'll offer my 2 cents, people are on holidays it's evening time winding down, by my own experience on holidays I never kept an exact track of time that was for when I was back home and at work. Yet we have several people on holidays enjoying a relaxed evening but are aware of exact timings? Not credible to be honest.

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 03:45PM

micks_address wrote:

Im curious re how long someone has to be dead before the cadever dogs would pick them up. I doubt there's much change in a body that q dog would pick up in first two hours after death? I might be way off but in all likelihood if she was a corpse that evening behind the sofa it's likely she was only there for minutes?

Few minutes? when was the last verified sighting of Madeline other than from Gerry or Kate?.

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 03:48PM

cnocbui wrote:

A white van.

Or a adult in a holiday resort with lots of children doing what other adults were seeing doing ie carrying a 'sleeping' child in their arms. I refer you back to J Tanner's earlier sighting of a man who subsequently was identified.

SteM · 20-03-2019 03:49PM

Martin Smith was on holiday with his family strolling along the street but we're happy to believe that he remembers exact times and the face of someone carrying a child over their shoulder.

micks_address · 20-03-2019 03:49PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

micks_address wrote:

Im curious re how long someone has to be dead before the cadever dogs would pick them up. I doubt there's much change in a body that q dog would pick up in first two hours after death? I might be way off but in all likelihood if she was a corpse that evening behind the sofa it's likely she was only there for minutes?

Few minutes? when was the last verified sighting of Madeline other than from Gerry or Kate?.

She was spotted leaving kids club with her mother at 6ish

The documentary suggests all three kids were exhausted and Madeline asked to be carried home and fell asleep before their bed time story was finished

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 03:51PM

iamwhoiam wrote:

Why did no one else see him so .

Other than to say the streets were quiet there is no other answer I can give you or if he were seen no importance was attached to the sighting . Alot people never come forward with information as they don't want to get involved, that's just the way things are.

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 03:53PM

SteM wrote:

Martin Smith was on holiday with his family strolling along the street but we're happy to believe that he remembers exact times and the face of someone carrying a child over their shoulder.

I don't think he gave an exact time other than to say around 10. He came forward after he saw GMcC descend the steps of the plane and claimed he recognised as the man he saw in the street with the child. Do you think he had something to gain by coming forward?

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 03:54PM

micks_address wrote:

The documentary suggests all three kids were exhausted and Madeline asked to be carried home and fell asleep before their bed time story was finished

So from 6pm till the alarm was raised at 10 pm no other sighting of M.

Phoebas · 20-03-2019 03:54PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You're referring to the cadaver dog I take it? The dog reacts to scent from where a body has lain or items which came into contact with the body. The dogs reaction is not proof of a body but an indication. This particular team of dogs and their handler were highly experienced and respected.

An indication that was checked and proved to be fruitless.

However marvellous these dogs are, we're expected to believe that a dog can reliably pick up the scent from a child's toy that was in the proximity of a corpse that was only dead a few hours!

Sounds like a shaggy dog story to me.

cnocbui · 20-03-2019 03:55PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Or a adult in a holiday resort with lots of children doing what other adults were seeing doing ie carrying a 'sleeping' child in their arms. I refer you back to J Tanner's earlier sighting of a man who subsequently was identified.

That was a joke.

Nice to know a person can pick up and carry a sleeping child - which a lot of people seem to think is an impossibility.

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 03:57PM

Phoebas wrote:

However marvellous these dogs are, we're expected to believe that a dog can reliably pick up the scent from a child's toy that was in the proximity of a corpse that was only dead a few hours!

The dog gives an indicator it's up to the investigator to work from there. Certain chemicals from the body are released shorty after death if the toy is in close proximity to the body it's logical these chemicals can transfer to the toy .

micks_address · 20-03-2019 03:58PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

micks_address wrote:

The documentary suggests all three kids were exhausted and Madeline asked to be carried home and fell asleep before their bed time story was finished

So from 6pm till the alarm was raised at 10 pm no other sighting of M.

615 I think they left kids club.. the mccanns joined dinner party at 830.. also bizarrely the hotel had written on the restaurant reservation book which was visible in reception that the 830 block booking each evening at that table was due to the kids being left alone each night in appartment

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 03:58PM

cnocbui wrote:

Nice to know a person can pick up and carry a sleeping child - which a lot of people seem to think is an impossibility.

It's also possible to pick up a dead or drugged child.

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 04:08PM

micks_address wrote:

615 I think they left kids club.. the mccanns joined dinner party at 830.. also bizarrely the hotel had written on the restaurant reservation book which was visible in reception that the 830 block booking each evening at that table was due to the kids being left alone each night in appartment

The note with the reservation was no more bizarre than that of the group whom the booking was for. Has an explanation ever been sought as to why the booking made reference to the kids being alone. Surprised Scotland yard or other UK police officers never quired it or if they did why no mention. I mention the UK police as it seems very few here will accept any competence existed in either the local police or PJ officers.

SteM · 20-03-2019 04:10PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I don't think he gave an exact time other than to say around 10. He came forward after he saw GMcC descend the steps of the plane and claimed he recognised as the man he saw in the street with the child. Do you think he had something to gain by coming forward?

I didn't suggest he had something to gain, don't know why you went there.

McCann came down the steps of the plane months after Smith claimed he saw him in Portugal. McCann's face had been on TV almost every day during that time period.

I think Smith was mistaken. Go to any tourist town in the med and you'll see fathers carrying their tired kids every night. I've done it myself. One doesn't stand out from another. Smith was just a well meaning passer by that was mistaken in what he saw imo. I don't know why anyone has any more belief in what he says than any other sighting thats been reported.

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 04:13PM

SteM wrote:

I think Smith was mistaken. Go to any tourist town in the med and you'll see fathers carrying their tired kids every night. I've done it myself. One doesn't stand out from another. Smith was just a well meaning passer by that was mistaken in what he saw imo. I don't know why anyone has any more belief in what he says than any other sighting thats been reported.

Yet J Tanner's sighting is given credence here but M Smith's has been ridiculed by others. I can only guess it's down to the subject of each sighting.

20-03-2019 04:14PM

Something Else

I just hope that this case doesn't get any further funding. Scotland Yard have only ever investigated from an abduction perspective and they haven't found anything worthwhile.
E-Fits of a possible charity worker who may or may not have acted suspicious is not going to help.
They have nothing left to investigate.

Boom_Bap · 20-03-2019 04:19PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

SteM wrote: »

I didn't suggest he had something to gain, don't know why you went there.

McCann came down the steps of the plane months after Smith claimed he saw him in Portugal. McCann's face had been on TV almost every day during that time period.

I think Smith was mistaken. Go to any tourist town in the med and you'll see fathers carrying their tired kids every night. I've done it myself. One doesn't stand out from another. Smith was just a well meaning passer by that was mistaken in what he saw imo. I don't know why anyone has any more belief in what he says than any other sighting thats been reported.

My understanding that Smith recognised the stance/demeanor/posture rather than the people.
I have some belief in this as I would personally recognise people by how the walk or some sort of mannerism.

SteM · 20-03-2019 04:21PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Yet J Tanner's sighting is given credence here but M Smith's has been ridiculed by others. I can only guess it's down to the subject of each sighting.

I certainly haven't given it any creedance and it was laughed at by the Portuguese officer in the Netflix doc.

SteM · 20-03-2019 04:22PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

My understanding that Smith recognised the stance/demeanor/posture rather than the people.
I have some belief in this as I would personally recognise people by how the walk or some sort of mannerism.

If I saw them a lot maybe but not if I saw them walking once 5 months previously.

Phoebas · 20-03-2019 04:23PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The dog gives an indicator it's up to the investigator to work from there. Certain chemicals from the body are released shorty after death if the toy is in close proximity to the body it's logical these chemicals can transfer to the toy .

The investigators did work from there. They took samples and sent them off for analysis. They came up empty. False positive.

Dogs are fallible - who'd have thunk it.

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 04:26PM

SteM wrote:

I certainly haven't given it any creedance and it was laughed at by the Portuguese officer in the Netflix doc.

It was given enough credence that a UK police artist drew a picture that was widely accepted in the media as being the 'abductor'.
I agree with the officer's reaction in the documentary.

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 04:28PM

Phoebas wrote:

Dogs are fallible - who'd have thunk it.

Eddie reacted to cadaver scent, the dog has no motive.

SteM · 20-03-2019 04:31PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It was given enough credence that a UK police artist drew a picture that was widely accepted in the media as being the 'abductor'.
I agree with the officer's reaction in the documentary.

An egg with a side parting was published at one stage. The whole thing was a **** show imo.

Madeleine McCann

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