The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann (Netflix)

brookers · 20-03-2019 03:20PM

Im on ep 4 and now know what people are saying about cuddle cat just thrown in a cupboard, is this the same toy do you think that Kate held in her arms non stop after M went missing, why would you just throw it then in a cupboard, did the police ask for it to be put there for the dogs ....strange....

ifElseThen · 20-03-2019 03:45PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

As parents its our job to try to remove risks and keep our children safe . Leaving them in an unlocked apartment open to a public road is negletful and irresponsible

I agree with this sentiment regarding leaving your kids to go out for booze & food. We've never left our children to go on nights out together etc.

But then I let our children play out on the street with their friends. So technically I'm neglecting them as they are out of sight of us and are exposed to loads of dangers, cars, being taken etc. But then again you can't keep them stuck in.

I guess an element of it is you never expect anything to happen. Although it patently can as evidenced by this.

iamwhoiam · 20-03-2019 03:58PM

ifElseThen wrote: »

I agree with this sentiment regarding leaving your kids to go out for booze & food. We've never left our children to go on nights out together etc.

But then I let our children play out on the street with their friends. So technically I'm neglecting them as they are out of sight of us and are exposed to loads of dangers, cars, being taken etc. But then again you can't keep them stuck in.

I guess an element of it is you never expect anything to happen. Although it patently can as evidenced by this.

But you assess the risks and take as little risk as you can while also trying to let kids learn
I am sure you wouldn't let 2 year olds out where you would allow 8 or 10 year olds ?
You wouldn't let a 10 year old play on a duel carraigway or a 5 year old where you couldn't see them ?
We try to ensure safety while loosening the lead . We don't leave three very young kids alone in an unlocked apartment where we most likely would not leave out wallet or phone exposed like that

0gac3yjefb5sv7 · 20-03-2019 04:00PM

Why did they not lock the doors?

xalot · 20-03-2019 04:07PM

ifElseThen wrote: »

Read up about that Wonderland ring. Shocking & terribly sad stuff. 1200+ kids lives ruined & only 16 identified from the material, including Rui Pedro.
UK jailed a few in early 2000s but they could easily be out now under new identities. The main leader was jailed indefinitely after being busted viewing stuff when he was released.

Apparently he was jailed again within 6 months of release for accessing porn in a public library. Scum.

gozunda · 20-03-2019 04:16PM

Necro wrote: »

...

..
We'll probably never find out what happened.
One thing I will say is the fact the scene wasn't preserved is complete and utter incompetence by local police, regardless of went on before, during or after the incident taking place. That factor alone along with the Mc Canns (imo) lying about some of the facts surrounding the abduction (or something more sinister), mean that it I don't think closure is actually possible.

Reading the various recorded testimonies of the PJ Files - there appeared to have been a delay in contacting the relevant authorities after the child was discovered to be missing.

Some of the facts such as who phoned and when is disputed but that aside it would appear that the parents themselves not only continued to contaminate the scene but allowed multiple other people in addition to their friends to access the apartment for a considerable period before the police arrived. Even if this can be excused on the basis they were not thinking straight- it remains the end result was a thrashed crime scene.

Imo I think much of the 'incompetent' Portuguese police angle has been driven by the British Tabloid Press. Some of this has also been highlighted in the Netflix documentary afaik.

The ASFIC's (Associação Sindical dos Funcionários de Investigação Criminal da Polícia Judiciária) General Secretary, Carlos Garcia, declared on 10 August 2007 that the union representing the PJ intended to take legal action against those British journalists who had accused Portuguese police officers of forging evidence. He stated that, at the beginning of the investigation, a joint working group had been created with the British police, and that they had been working in close cooperation. Thus when the Portuguese police is criticised, so too is the British police. ..

wadacrack · 20-03-2019 04:35PM

Convinced the Jerry McCann drugged her with sedatives and it went wrong.Seems a man of not much emotion which is fair enough but when asked did he give Madeleine sedative's, his behavior differs from how he usually is. Ear scratching and a little laugh not his usual calm demeanor. A tragic accident and subsequent cover up

SusieBlue · 20-03-2019 04:38PM

wadacrack wrote: »

Convinced the Jerry McCann drugged her with sedatives and it went wrong.Seems a man of not much emotion which is fair enough but when asked did he give Madeleine sedative's, his behavior differs from how he usually is. Ear scratching and a little laugh not his usual calm demeanor. A tragic accident and subsequent cover up

There is no evidence of this whatsoever.

LaChatteGitane · 20-03-2019 05:05PM

brookers wrote: »

Im on ep 4 and now know what people are saying about cuddle cat just thrown in a cupboard, is this the same toy do you think that Kate held in her arms non stop after M went missing, why would you just throw it then in a cupboard, did the police ask for it to be put there for the dogs ....strange....

I think the police asked for it to do the dog sniffer test and that they threw it in the cupboard.

fryup · 20-03-2019 07:26PM

haven't seen it....but it sounds like a hatchet job (one-sided) like leaving neverland....is it?

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 07:47PM

As documentaries go it wasn't great. Roughly 5 hours too long saying nothing but fluff. No new insights, the most telling for me is it seems to carry on the hatchet job started by the British media in 2007 against the Portuguese Authorities. McCanns cold and aloof as I always found them although being medics can explain it. I believe the child is dead and died on the 3rd May 2007. The how ( I suspect the who) and logistics is the problem.

alexonhisown · 20-03-2019 09:21PM

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Why did they not lock the doors?

I think i remember at the time hearing that the patio doors only locked from inside, and if they locked them, they would have had to walk around to back of apt block to get into apt for their half hourly checks, which would have taken an extra few mins

pc7 · 20-03-2019 09:24PM

The voice expert in episode 7, what was the point of him? I’ve been zoning in and out but did he have an opinion? Or was it just cause he was hired by Oakley? Can’t face rewatching.

yourdeadwright · 20-03-2019 10:29PM

The Kenedy fella and his son are jokers , Also his son looks rough as fu×k
The two of them thought they where James Bond amd getting rinsed of there money by the private investagtor , hes so good he lets the son tag along, give over you jokers,

Keyzer · 21-03-2019 11:10AM

wadacrack wrote: »

Convinced the Jerry McCann drugged her with sedatives and it went wrong.Seems a man of not much emotion which is fair enough but when asked did he give Madeleine sedative's, his behavior differs from how he usually is. Ear scratching and a little laugh not his usual calm demeanor. A tragic accident and subsequent cover up

Think what you like but you haven't a clue what happened.

ifElseThen · 21-03-2019 11:16AM

The part about the other GP guy carrying his own daughter back from the nightcreche was interesting. Seemed to match the photofit given by the Irish family. This would remove the last supposed sighting of Madeline by anyone independent from the case. When was the last guaranteed sighting of her prior to that?

SusieBlue · 21-03-2019 11:42AM

ifElseThen wrote: »

The part about the other GP guy carrying his own daughter back from the nightcreche was interesting. Seemed to match the photofit given by the Irish family. This would remove the last supposed sighting of Madeline by anyone independent from the case. When was the last guaranteed sighting of her prior to that?

6:30pm, when she was seen by independent witnesses being signed out of the hotel kids club. You can view the sign out sheet where Kate signed her out online, and it includes a time stamp.
She was seen by hotel staff, other parents and holidaymakers at the resort.

Gerry is accounted for at a tennis lesson until 7pm. Kate & Gerry are both accounted for, again by independent witnesses, sitting down to dinner at the Tapas bar at 8:30pm.

For them to be responsible, that leaves a 1.5hr window where Madeleine died, they concocted their plan, destroyed any evidence, and disposed of her body so well it still hasn't been located over a decade later.

They were in an unfamiliar location with no access to a car and this was before the era of google maps or smartphones.
Make of that what you will.

SusieBlue · 21-03-2019 11:50AM

Sorry the above should read 6pm, not 6:30pm. Typo!

21-03-2019 12:09PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

6:30pm, when she was seen by independent witnesses being signed out of the hotel kids club. You can view the sign out sheet where Kate signed her out online, and it includes a time stamp.
She was seen by hotel staff, other parents and holidaymakers at the resort.

Gerry is accounted for at a tennis lesson until 7pm. Kate & Gerry are both accounted for, again by independent witnesses, sitting down to dinner at the Tapas bar at 8:30pm.

For them to be responsible, that leaves a 1.5hr window where Madeleine died, they concocted their plan, destroyed any evidence, and disposed of her body so well it still hasn't been located over a decade later.

They were in an unfamiliar location with no access to a car and this was before the era of google maps or smartphones.
Make of that what you will.

Gerry was apparently in the apartment at 09:05pm. Matthew at 09:35pm. Kate at 10pm. 3 adults in the apartment in the space of 55 minutes. I'm sure they each spent a couple of minutes in there to check on the kids and ensure that everything was safe.
So the abductor would have had a very very small window to get into the apartment.
Remember, the window can't be opened from the outside. So we have to assume he went in the unlocked door.
He takes the largest child and decides to go out the window instead of the open door.
Nobody sees him. And several people were around during that hour. Jane had been out to check on her kids. The man she spotted collecting the baby. Gerry talking to a friend.

Make of that what you will.

SusieBlue · 21-03-2019 12:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Gerry was apparently in the apartment at 09:05pm. Matthew at 09:35pm. Kate at 10pm. 3 adults in the apartment in the space of 55 minutes. I'm sure they each spent a couple of minutes in there to check on the kids and ensure that everything was safe.
So the abductor would have had a very very small window to get into the apartment.
Remember, the window can't be opened from the outside. So we have to assume he went in the unlocked door.
He takes the largest child and decides to go out the window instead of the open door.
Nobody sees him. And several people were around during that hour. Jane had been out to check on her kids. The man she spotted collecting the baby. Gerry talking to a friend.

Make of that what you will.

There was plenty of opportunity in between those checks to walk in, pick up a sleeping child, and walk back out.
For what its worth, I believe the perpetrator was watching and took her right after Matthew walked back towards the restaurant at 9:35pm.

Its interesting that you don't think there was enough time for someone to literally walk in an unlocked door and walk back out with a sleeping toddler in the middle of the night, yet you find it perfectly plausible that her own parents killed her, got over the shock, made a plan, destroyed all evidence and disposed of the body completely undetected and not seen by anyone in just 90 minutes, and then went to dinner acting completely normally.
In an unfamiliar country with no access to a car or smartphone.

ifElseThen · 21-03-2019 12:37PM

Horrible case whatever happened to her. Thought the complex looked quite menacing at night with those dim narrow pathways and lowlighting. Great place for somebody to lurk with bad intentions.

SusieBlue · 21-03-2019 12:43PM

ifElseThen wrote: »

Horrible case whatever happened to her. Thought the complex looked quite menacing at night with those dim narrow pathways and lowlighting. Great place for somebody to lurk with bad intentions.

Their apartment was unlocked and could be accessed off the public street, there was no need to even enter the complex.
It was the most easily accessible of the various apartments of the Tapas group, the most vulnerable one.
Its frightening to even think about.

ifElseThen · 21-03-2019 12:59PM

Hopefully it was either an accidental overdose or stolen to order by someone who wanted a child to rear. The other options don't bear thinking about.

TallGlass · 21-03-2019 01:05PM

ifElseThen wrote: »

Read up about that Wonderland ring. Shocking & terribly sad stuff. 1200+ kids lives ruined & only 16 identified from the material, including Rui Pedro.
UK jailed a few in early 2000s but they could easily be out now under new identities. The main leader was jailed indefinitely after being busted viewing stuff when he was released.

Reading that actually turned my stomach. We unfortunately live amoungst some sick and twisted individuals. Below link a case recently from Ireland.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/almost-20-child-victims-of-alleged-paedophile-ring-identified-1.3416894%3fmode=amp

yourdeadwright · 21-03-2019 01:11PM

Would I be correct in saying Cadavers can not be tested and need DNA to back them up
Or are Cadavers themselves something that can be tested ?

Necro · 21-03-2019 01:17PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Their apartment was unlocked and could be accessed off the public street, there was no need to even enter the complex.
It was the most easily accessible of the various apartments of the Tapas group, the most vulnerable one.
Its frightening to even think about.

I just honestly can't reconcile quite why they didn't lock the patio doors when it's so accessible, even aside from them leaving three young children sleeping alone.

It baffles belief. As I said prior, both scenarios (the abduction and the parents committing murder, accidental or not) are both quite hard to actually align with reality.

I think that's my main issue with the case (that and I think the Mc Canns are flat out lying about checking on their children every 20 mins)

gozunda · 21-03-2019 01:33PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

There was plenty of opportunity in between those checks to walk in, pick up a sleeping child, and walk back out.
For what its worth, I believe the perpetrator was watching and took her right after Matthew walked back towards the restaurant at 9:35pm.

Its interesting that you don't think there was enough time for someone to literally walk in an unlocked door and walk back out with a sleeping toddler in the middle of the night, yet you find it perfectly plausible that her own parents killed her, got over the shock, made a plan, destroyed all evidence and disposed of the body completely undetected and not seen by anyone in just 90 minutes, and then went to dinner acting completely normally.
In an unfamiliar country with no access to a car or smartphone.

And unfortunately there is little or no evidence of either scenario. But to turn both of those on their heads - consider:

In the first scenario - no evidence of a 'perpetrator' has been found to date. Considering that the various members if the Tapas 7 were each wandering around checking their own children (and sometimes others) the chance that a person could climb the stairs, open the sliding door, find their way around an unfamiliar apartment in the dark, leave no evidence and be able to snatch a child who in all likelihood would wake up screaming with so many individuals around does seem somewhat incredible. Could it be a possibility? Yes.

The second scenario does not necessarily involve anyone killing the child btw. That she died accidentally, no particular evidence to conceal eg child suffocated or hit her head without major external trauma, parents panicked, realised that they would lose their jobs and potentially custody of children etc, stuffed the childs body in a bag, placed same in the adjacent garden under bushes (scent later detected here by cadaver dog) etc. Whether this could have happened before, after or during dinner is also up for speculation tbh. Body later moved when things had died down to wasteland etc. This also seems incredible as above. Could it be a possibility? Yes.

So yes there are all kind of possibilities as to what could have happened.

Both are theories which investigators have looked at as possible. Unfortunately the evidence of one or other scenarios is lacking. Hence we are still discussing this case.

*Necro - just saw your post. Snap

SusieBlue · 21-03-2019 01:41PM

gozunda wrote: »

And unfortunately there is little or no evidence of either scenario. But to turn both of those on their heads - consider:

In the first scenario - no evidence of a 'perpetrator' has been found to date. Considering that the various members if the Tapas 7 were each wandering around checking their own children (and sometimes others) the chance that a person could climb the stairs, open the sliding door, find there way around an unfamiliar apartment in the dark, leave no evidence and be able to snatch a child who in all likelihood would wake up screaming with so many individuals around does seem somewhat incredible. Could it be a possibility? Yes.

The second scenario does not necessarily involve anyone killing the child btw. That she died accidentally, no particular evidence to conceal eg child suffocated or hit her head without major trauma, parents panicked, realised that they would lose their jobs and potentially custody of children etc, stuffed the childs body in a bag, placed same in the adjacent garden under bushes (scent later detected here by cadaver dog) etc. Whether this could have happened before, after or during dinner is also up for speculation tbh. Body later moved when things had died down to wasteland etc. This also seems incredible as above. Could it be a possibility? Yes.

So yes there are all kind of possibilities as to what could have happened.

Both are theories which investigators have looked at as possible. Unfortunately the evidence of one or other scenarios is lacking. Hence we are still discussing this case.

I don't disagree with you.
I was replying to someone who disputed the possibility of a perpetrator taking the child.
I know that either scenario is possible, but the person I was replying to was dismissing the notion that she was taken.
They basically said it wasn't possible.
That's why I pointed out the inconsistencies in the logistics in the McCann's being involved.
I wouldn't have brought it up only for PP entirely dismissed the notion she could have been taken.

Either could have happened, I have my own feelings on which way I think events occurred but I've always said I can see why other people think the McCann's were involved. I just don't believe they were, personally.

El Nino09 · 21-03-2019 01:41PM

Did any of them enter the bedroom when checking on the kids ? Or was it just a quick pop into the appartment and back out ?

pc7 · 21-03-2019 01:42PM

El Nino09 wrote: »

Did any of them enter the bedroom when checking on the kids ? Or was it just a quick pop into the appartment and back out ?

I think Oldfield said he didn't put his head in, just listened outside the bedroom door

The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann (Netflix)

Comments