Madeleine McCann

cnocbui · 20-03-2019 02:53PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

That you can see with the naked eye you mean? or do you carry out forensics on things you touch?

Everyone leaves footprints. Get everyone that was there that night to provide their footware to exclude them would have been a good start in debunking the intruder theory.

'Reaching' doesn't begin to describe this. Show me how many crimes in Ireland have been solved due to 'footprints' in a house. The PJ were useless, they thought Madeleine had wandered off and didn't take them seriously. They didn't seal the apartment. You can forget about any subtle forensic traces.

Boom_Bap · 20-03-2019 02:54PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

declan2693 wrote: »

I was watching the documentary and noticed the same thing except with the apartment. The dog walks around and away around the bed then the handler taps a spot on the bed where the dog had just been and the dog goes back and starts barking. Thought was a bit suspicious.

It could be part of the process, we don't see the videos of the other cars, plus, the handler didn't know which car belonged to them either.

cnocbui · 20-03-2019 02:59PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The Guardian carried a timeline of 10 pm Kate raises the alarm, local Police called at 10.15 pm arrival at 10.30pm( busy holiday resort) detectives from the PJ arrive at 11.10pm. Where is the 90 minutes coming from?

The nanny also claimed it took local police 90 minutes to arrive - by which time the crime scene, the apartment from which Madeleine had vanished, had been contaminated and potentially vital evidence lost.

She added she was astonished that Madeleine's parents were ever considered suspects.

“I know I didn’t step into that apartment but pretty much everybody else did. So, evidence gone, nothing. There was nobody there to say, ‘We need to lock this off now’," she added.

The former nanny said that when she was questioned by Metropolitan Police investigating the case, she discovered her five-page statement to Portuguese police had not been passed on to them in full, with key information missed out.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/17/madeleine-mccanns-former-nanny-breaks-silence-describe-night/

Something else she said that disturbs me - she says she is utterly positive Robert Murat was hanging around while people searched, even though he stated to the Police he wasn't there.

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 03:01PM

There was alot of ineptitude in this case, both from local law enforcement to the PJ but it is unfair and too convenient to lay the blame solely on them. There was significant political interference and very little from the MOJ in Portugal for the police.
Personally I think one of the biggest mistakes if you believe the abductor scenario was releasing a photo of Madeline focusing on her genetic anomaly. This would made her survival chances almost nil, again if you believe a certain scenario.

cgcsb · 20-03-2019 03:04PM

Something Else

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Since it was admitted that the door was left open for convenience of checking the children I can't see why the window was ever suggested other than a diversion and not a well thought out one either.

Obviously, people point to the small time the McCanns had to get away with the crime, I suggest they were pretty good at pulling it off but the short time to think about it led to errors, the fiddling with the window, cleaning it tucking the curtains in, opening it with the palm of her hand and not the handle, opening the blind etc. all fatal errors. The window really sinks the McCanns story, also the intrudor left no marks of any kind.

I propose that Gerry McCann was indeed spotted with Maddie that night by the Smiths heading towards the beach. I think he stashed her somewhere close by during one of his checks on the kids. The group lied, badly, about the time that checks were carried out and by whom. They believe the McCann's story but they wanted to protect the McCanns and themselves of accusations of negligence. I think that during the time between raising the alarm and large groups of searchers assembled there were only a small number of pannicked people searching the hotel area only. During the confusion Gerry went and recovered the body and disposed of it more permanently, by weighting the body and chucking it in the ocean, where the cops wouldn't look. He kept her clothes and that's what the dogs reacted to. There were never any sub-aqua searches afaik. Body is disintegrated by now.

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 03:07PM

cnocbui wrote:

Something else she said that disturbs me - she says she is utterly positive Robert Murat was hanging around while people searched, even though he stated to the Police he wasn't there.

She wasn't employed by the McCanns she worked for the Ocean club. Robert Murat was cleared of any involvement. It took have many years to speak out yet she is utterly positive?. As I said I referenced the timeline in the Guardian newspaper. Phone logs don't lie whereas witnesses can be very unreliable, ie J.Tanner.

20-03-2019 03:10PM

Something Else

Phoebas wrote: »

Sure, who needs evidence anyway!!!

Of course they need evidence. They don't have it so they can't convict.
That doesn't mean they don't still highly suspect who done it.
The best evidence would be a body. They searched and searched but couldn't find it. It could be literally anywhere in PDL.

cnocbui · 20-03-2019 03:17PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course they need evidence. They don't have it so they can't convict.
That doesn't mean they don't still highly suspect who done it.
The best evidence would be a body. They searched and searched but couldn't find it. It could be literally anywhere in PDL.

Then why didn't the numerous SAR and tracker dogs find it? Read the PJ files and look at the photos - they went through PDL with a fine tooth comb.

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 03:19PM

cgcsb wrote:

I propose that Gerry McCann was indeed spotted with Maddie that night by the Smiths heading towards the beach. I think he stashed her somewhere close by during one of his checks on the kids. The group lied, badly, about the time that checks were carried out and by whom. They believe the McCann's story but they wanted to protect the McCanns and themselves of accusations of negligence. I think that during the time between raising the alarm and large groups of searchers assembled there were only a small number of pannicked people searching the hotel area only. During the confusion Gerry went and recovered the body and disposed of it more permanently, by weighting the body and chucking it in the ocean, where the cops wouldn't look. He kept her clothes and that's what the dogs reacted to. There were never any sub-aqua searches afaik. Body is disintegrated by now.

A former police officer suggested Madeline was brought to caves near the sea on the night of her disappearance but these were never searched, the Smiths claimed they saw a man walking in the direction of the beach with a child in his arms. The suggestion by Martin Smith was the man was G McCann.

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 03:21PM

cnocbui wrote:

Then why didn't the numerous SAR and tracker dogs find it? Read the PJ files and look at the photos - they went through PDL with a fine tooth comb.

I'm not an expert on tracker dogs but if a victim doesn't come into contact with a surface I can't see how a dog can pick up a scent. If Madeline was being carried how would her scent be detected hours later?

dark crystal · 20-03-2019 03:23PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Boom_Bap wrote: »

It could be part of the process, we don't see the videos of the other cars, plus, the handler didn't know which car belonged to them either.

Do we know this for sure? The McCanns had been very publicly driving the Renault Scenic for quite a while. As far as I'm aware, none of the other cars in the car park we're the same car brand. There was only one Renault Scenic at the scene of the search.

Boom_Bap · 20-03-2019 03:24PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

dark crystal wrote: »

Do we know this for sure? The McCanns had been very publicly driving the Renault Scenic for quite a while. As far as I'm aware, none of the other cars in the car park we're the same car brand. There was only one Renault Scenic at the scene of the search.

In this case, we don't know anything for sure

iamwhoiam · 20-03-2019 03:25PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

If Gerry had anything to do with it why on earth would he parade through a busy holiday village with the child openly in his arms ?

Phoebas · 20-03-2019 03:26PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

If Madeline was being carried how would her scent be detected hours later?

Indeed. Or even weeks later.

cnocbui · 20-03-2019 03:27PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Boom_Bap wrote: »

It could be part of the process, we don't see the videos of the other cars, plus, the handler didn't know which car belonged to them either.

If Grimes didn't know which was the McCann's hire car, then he's not a very bright policeman.

Boom_Bap · 20-03-2019 03:28PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cnocbui wrote: »

If Grimes didn't know which was the McCann's hire car, then he's not a very bright policeman.

I recall in the documentary that he stated it wasn't known to him which car was theirs. Whether that is a case of someone didn't officially identify the car in the car park, or he genuinely didn't know....only he knows that.

dark crystal · 20-03-2019 03:32PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

Obviously, people point to the small time the McCanns had to get away with the crime, I suggest they were pretty good at pulling it off but the short time to think about it led to errors, the fiddling with the window, cleaning it tucking the curtains in, opening it with the palm of her hand and not the handle, opening the blind etc. all fatal errors. The window really sinks the McCanns story, also the intrudor left no marks of any kind.

I propose that Gerry McCann was indeed spotted with Maddie that night by the Smiths heading towards the beach. I think he stashed her somewhere close by during one of his checks on the kids. The group lied, badly, about the time that checks were carried out and by whom. They believe the McCann's story but they wanted to protect the McCanns and themselves of accusations of negligence. I think that during the time between raising the alarm and large groups of searchers assembled there were only a small number of pannicked people searching the hotel area only. During the confusion Gerry went and recovered the body and disposed of it more permanently, by weighting the body and chucking it in the ocean, where the cops wouldn't look. He kept her clothes and that's what the dogs reacted to. There were never any sub-aqua searches afaik. Body is disintegrated by now.

Haven't we already covered ad nauseum the fact that many independent witnesses place Gerry at the Ocean Club at the same time of the Smith sighting? Why are people continuing to push the Smith sighting as being Gerry??

No one else managed to spot him on his journey to the cliffs carrying a dead child? All the people at the Ocean Club were mistaken, but Martin Smith alone is correct? Come on now!

yourdeadwright · 20-03-2019 03:33PM

Accident happened, parents hid body

Phoebas wrote: »

Not to be ruled out, given the occupation of both of the parents

The story of Kate coming in contact with 6 bodies was not true, it was quote buy a "friend " She was a part time GP at the time hardly midsomer murders coming across 6 bodies

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 03:33PM

Phoebas wrote:

Indeed. Or even weeks later.

You're referring to the cadaver dog I take it? The dog reacts to scent from where a body has lain or items which came into contact with the body. The dogs reaction is not proof of a body but an indication. This particular team of dogs and their handler were highly experienced and respected.

cnocbui · 20-03-2019 03:34PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I'm not an expert on tracker dogs but if a victim doesn't come into contact with a surface I can't see how a dog can pick up a scent. If Madeline was being carried how would her scent be detected hours later?

I have absolutely no idea. I have always wondered how they do it. In searching for a lost person they give the dog a sniff of a possession or clothing, but not the sole of the shoes of the missing person, as they are still wearing them - which is the only thing you would expect would leave any physical trace. I can only think that some of the 400,000 skin cells a human sheds every day, just constantly fall from a person, and being heavier than air, settle on the ground like an invisible trail of flour.

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 03:34PM

iamwhoiam wrote:

If Gerry had anything to do with it why on earth would he parade through a busy holiday village with the child openly in his arms ?

What better way to hide than in plain site.

cgcsb · 20-03-2019 03:34PM

Something Else

dark crystal wrote: »

Haven't we already covered ad nauseum the fact that many independent witnesses place Gerry at the Ocean Club at the same time of the Smith sighting? Why are people continuing to push the Smith sighting as being Gerry??

No one else managed to spot him on his journey to the cliffs carrying a dead child? All the people at the Ocean Club were mistaken, but Martin Smith alone is correct? Come on now!

How can the times be exact, he could have gotten 15 mins in there somewhere and still been 'seen' at the ocean club

dark crystal · 20-03-2019 03:35PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

She wasn't employed by the McCanns she worked for the Ocean club. Robert Murat was cleared of any involvement. It took have many years to speak out yet she is utterly positive?. As I said I referenced the timeline in the Guardian newspaper. Phone logs don't lie whereas witnesses can be very unreliable, ie J.Tanner.

Unless of course, that witness is Martin Smith!

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 03:35PM

yourdeadwright wrote:

The story of Kate coming in contact with 6 bodies was not true, it was quote buy a "friend " She was a part time GP at the time hardly midsomer murders coming across 6 bodies

If as a part time GP she came into contact with 6 dead bodies in a short time frame I would question did she intern with Harold Shipman.

iamwhoiam · 20-03-2019 03:36PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

What better way to hide than in plain site.

Nonsence . The risk was huge that he would be spotted

Plumbthedepths · 20-03-2019 03:38PM

dark crystal wrote:

Unless of course, that witness is Martin Smith!

He is as credible as any other witness until proven otherwise.

dark crystal · 20-03-2019 03:38PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

How can the times be exact, he could have gotten 15 mins in there somewhere and still been 'seen' at the ocean club

Why is 'seen' in brackets? Was everyone who gave police statements placing Gerry at the Ocean Club at 10pm lying? Why?

Surely people other than Martin Smith saw Gerry carrying his dead little girl? How far are the cliffs from the Ocean Club (there and back?)

cnocbui · 20-03-2019 03:39PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I recall in the documentary that he stated it wasn't known to him which car was theirs. Whether that is a case of someone didn't officially identify the car in the car park, or he genuinely didn't know....only he knows that.

Their car and pictures of it were in the media constantly, before his services were enlisted. I am sure, given his profession, he had been following the case closely, just as millions of other people were. It would have been really odd if he hadn't. I'm sure he could find a picture of the car in 3 minutes, just as easily as I could - all right, might have taken him 12 minutes.

dark crystal · 20-03-2019 03:40PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

He is as credible as any other witness until proven otherwise.

As is the nanny, yes?

micks_address · 20-03-2019 03:40PM

Im curious re how long someone has to be dead before the cadever dogs would pick them up. I doubt there's much change in a body that q dog would pick up in first two hours after death? I might be way off but in all likelihood if she was a corpse that evening behind the sofa it's likely she was only there for minutes?

Madeleine McCann

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