The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann (Netflix)

fritzelly · 19-03-2019 11:34PM

If nothing else the doc has reaffirmed my belief they are responsible for her death, whether accidental or not and there was a conspiracy with the tapas 7 to cover it up.
Between contaminating the crime scene, the ever changing statements, the cadaver dog and so on - it just doesn't tally in my head she was abducted by some faceless person.
Surprising how the documentary seems to have lots of professionals saying they don't believe them and the only people backing them up are family, friends or people employed by them...

Pussyhands · 19-03-2019 11:38PM

Has there been any theories about what happened with the dogs? I mean why the dogs would have picked up the scents etc in the locations they did? Weren't they in different areas of the house?

TheQuietBeatle · 19-03-2019 11:42PM

Pussyhands wrote: »

It's surreal to see the McCanns aging over time. I know it happens but to think the footage etc is all from 10 years ago or whatever. Similar to seeing Avery age in prison.

The difference being Avery was actually convicted and had shed loads of evidence against him.

The McCanns are innocent until proven otherwise.

fritzelly · 19-03-2019 11:57PM

One thing I found interesting was the twins never ever woke up with all the commotion going on around them, taken out of bed and moved. And I know kids go comatose when wrecked but surely Kate was screaming inside the apartment or did she wait til she was out in the street...

Monife · 19-03-2019 11:58PM

Toots wrote: »

That was my thought, too. She’d be old enough now that she could be watching it and perhaps question her identity. That’s providing she’s alive, which tbh, I doubt is the case at this stage. If she didn’t die in the apartment, it would be highly likely an abductor would have killed her because the media frenzy would have made it too difficult to hide her.

What wasn't discussed at all in the documentary, what if the dogs were picking up on a scent before the McCanns. Was it ever queried if there were any deaths or incidents in that apartment previously?

fritzelly · 20-03-2019 12:08AM

Monife wrote: »

What wasn't discussed at all in the documentary, what if the dogs were picking up on a scent before the McCanns. Was it ever queried if there were any deaths or incidents in that apartment previously?

Probably not when they got the hit in the car as well - coincidence? Maybe but the chances of that happening unless people are hiring rental cars all the time to transport dead bodies in Portugal

Pussyhands · 20-03-2019 12:15AM

Gerry seems strange to me. But then again Kate acts strange sometimes too "they've taken her!"

fritzelly · 20-03-2019 12:17AM

Pussyhands wrote: »

Gerry seems strange to me. But then again Kate acts strange sometimes too "they've taken her!"

The two of them are so emotionless and when Kate expresses emotion it seems so contrived screwing up her face - god sake shed a tear

Babooshka · 20-03-2019 12:52AM

fritzelly wrote: »

One thing I found interesting was the twins never ever woke up with all the commotion going on around them, taken out of bed and moved. And I know kids go comatose when wrecked but surely Kate was screaming inside the apartment or did she wait til she was out in the street...

How do you know that? Is it just something someone's mate said or who? I'm always hearing it bandied about but never know the source ( apologies if it's in the documentary I've only watched the first 40 minutes and didn't see it mentioned so far)

gozunda · 20-03-2019 01:02AM

TheQuietBeatle wrote: »

The difference being Avery was actually convicted and had shed loads of evidence against him.

The McCanns are innocent until proven otherwise.

In Portugal not quite ...

In February 2017 Portuguese Judges declared that the archiving of the criminal case did not in fact equate to the McCanns being cleared of criminal responsibility.
See:
https://www.her.ie/news/court-rules-kate-gerry-mccann-not-proved-innocent-maddies-disappearance-332373

In Portugal the McCanns have never been cleared despite their arguido status being lifted. This is a translation of the relevant Portuguese ruling

It should not be said that the appellants (the McCanns) were cleared via the ruling announcing the archiving of the criminal case.

The ruling (announcing the archiving of the criminal case) was not made because of Portugal’s Public Prosecution Service having acquired the conviction that the appellants hadn’t committed a crime. (Rather) the archiving of the case was determined by the fact that public prosecutors hadn't managed to obtain sufficient evidence of the practice of crimes by the appellants.

It doesn't therefore seem acceptable that the ruling, based on the insufficiency of evidence, should be equated to proof of innocence."

Note: For those interested - this ruling in its entirety is in the PJ files.

See:
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/Supreme_Court_31_01_2017.htm#70

The McCanns left Portugal before the investigation could be finalised and refused to participate with the investigation following them being made Arguidos.

Bizarrely in the UK - the hugely expensive and ongoing police investigation has never formally interviewed either Kate or Gerry McCann ...

Dont think the documentary has got to that bit yet tbh ..

stop animal cruelty · 20-03-2019 01:17AM

Babooshka wrote: »

fritzelly wrote: »

One thing I found interesting was the twins never ever woke up with all the commotion going on around them, taken out of bed and moved. And I know kids go comatose when wrecked but surely Kate was screaming inside the apartment or did she wait til she was out in the street...

How do you know that? Is it just something someone's mate said or who? I'm always hearing it bandied about but never know the source ( apologies if it's in the documentary I've only watched the first 40 minutes and didn't see it mentioned so far)

It's mentioned in the documentary, episode 3 or 4.

Babooshka · 20-03-2019 09:06AM

Did anyone else notice in episode one that the guy who had a photo of Madeleine with his daughter playing at the play club said they were close in age, there was only months between them...but his daughter was 4 and a half? Probably not worth mentioning but I found that odd.

Tipsy McSwagger · 20-03-2019 09:40AM

fritzelly wrote: »

The two of them are so emotionless and when Kate expresses emotion it seems so contrived screwing up her face - god sake shed a tear

Christ almighty, there is plenty of footage of her crying. I see 2 parents completely devastated emotionally, mentally and physically. They don’t need to dance to the tune of the Facebook generation who judge people based on a few interviews.

GLaDOS · 20-03-2019 10:34AM

On the last episode, though everything since episode 4 has been mostly fluff.

I remain unconvinced the McCann's had anything to do with her disappearance (other than the negligence of leaving the children alone). The cadavar/blood dogs are the only decent evidence against them and are, by the dog trainers admission, not hard evidence in isolation. The car wasn't hired until 25 days after the disappearance, so would have required storing the body somewhere cold in the meantime.

There's no way all of their friends would have covered for them for this long. Disposing of a body so successfully in an unfamiliar country with only fellow tourists to help would be incredible. People don't always react how you expect them to in crisis. Damning them as child murderers because they don't react the way you think they should is bizarre.

My guess is she was kidnapped, then killed once the massive publicity made her too dangerous.

Pussyhands · 20-03-2019 10:39AM

GLaDOS wrote: »

On the last episode, though everything since episode 4 has been mostly fluff.

I remain unconvinced the McCann's had anything to do with her disappearance (other than the negligence of leaving the children alone). The cadavar/blood dogs are the only decent evidence against them and are, by the dog trainers admission, not hard evidence in isolation. The car wasn't hired until 25 days after the disappearance, so would have required storing the body somewhere cold in the meantime.

There's no way all of their friends would have covered for them for this long. Disposing of a body so successfully in an unfamiliar country with only fellow tourists to help would be incredible. People don't always react how you expect them to in crisis. Damning them as child murderers because they don't react the way you think they should is bizarre.

My guess is she was kidnapped, then killed once the massive publicity made her too dangerous.

Would the scent be transferred to someone who carried a corpse?

GLaDOS · 20-03-2019 10:44AM

Pussyhands wrote: »

Would the scent be transferred to someone who carried a corpse?

Possibly, but if that was the case you'd expect the dogs to have alerted to multiple locations in the apartment/car.

Pussyhands · 20-03-2019 10:55AM

GLaDOS wrote: »

Possibly, but if that was the case you'd expect the dogs to have alerted to multiple locations in the apartment/car.

It did in in the apartment though I think? 3 locations or something..

GLaDOS · 20-03-2019 11:01AM

Oh fair enough, they seemed to focus on one particular spot in the documentary.

Without knowing the intricacies of how the dogs operate it's difficult to interpret their evidence. How likely is a false positive?

Also bear in mind it's both a rental apartment and car. Hundreds, thousands of other people have been through them before.

Necro · 20-03-2019 11:25AM

Slowly making my way through it, I find the entire situation galling tbh. How the Mc Canns were never prosecuted for child neglect at the very least - leaving their three tiny children alone in an unlocked apartment - is utterly bizarre.

They absolutely contributed to whatever happened by their appalling behaviour, that is certain. The fact there were onsite babysitting services that they chose not to use as they were inconvenient makes it more enraging, and the only sympathy I really have for is Madeline tbh.

As for the case - the Mc Canns are definitely lying about certain factors in my opinion. I don't believe them when they say that the children were checked on every 20 minutes, and even if that was true, the fact that one of their party entered the apartment but never physically checked on the kids is utterly bizarre.

Whether it's a massive cover-up though, I'm unsure. Both the scenario of an abductor entering and taking Madeline, and the other scenario of some malfeasance by the parents involving sedatives (which I'm pretty certain they gave to Madeline, if not the two babies) and a horrible accident - are equally quite hard to fathom.

We'll probably never find out what happened.
One thing I will say is the fact the scene wasn't preserved is complete and utter incompetence by local police, regardless of went on before, during or after the incident taking place. That factor alone along with the Mc Canns (imo) lying about some of the facts surrounding the abduction (or something more sinister), mean that it I don't think closure is actually possible.

0gac3yjefb5sv7 · 20-03-2019 11:29AM

Is there any reason why the parents didn't lock the doors? Why would they leave it unlocked...surely they could share a key for whoever is checking on them

Tipsy McSwagger · 20-03-2019 11:34AM

A lot of people are more outraged that a middle class British family left their kids alone (it seemed a normal thing to do over there) than the child actually been kidnapped. A lot of faux outrage over something that admittedly wasn’t a good idea. I don’t blame the McCanns for what happened at all, I blame the person or persons who stole their little girl.

yourdeadwright · 20-03-2019 11:43AM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

A lot of people are more outraged that a middle class British family left their kids alone (it seemed a normal thing to do over there) than the child actually been kidnapped. A lot of faux outrage over something that admittedly wasn’t a good idea. I don’t blame the McCanns for what happened at all, I blame the person or persons who stole their little girl.

There is zero evidence that anyone stole there little girl ,

She is missing but zero evidence that anyone else ever entered that apartment,

Necro · 20-03-2019 11:46AM

Admittedly not a good idea? Well that's the understatement of the decade.

They are most certainly not blameless as their decision as parents led to the circumstances of the abduction - if that's what happened.

yourdeadwright · 20-03-2019 11:47AM

Monife wrote: »

What wasn't discussed at all in the documentary, what if the dogs were picking up on a scent before the McCanns. Was it ever queried if there were any deaths or incidents in that apartment previously?

It was no one ever died in that apartment before

Keyzer · 20-03-2019 11:47AM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

A lot of people are more outraged that a middle class British family left their kids alone (it seemed a normal thing to do over there) than the child actually been kidnapped. A lot of faux outrage over something that admittedly wasn’t a good idea. I don’t blame the McCanns for what happened at all, I blame the person or persons who stole their little girl.

Root cause.

If they hadn't left the children on their own, none of this would have happened. I have two young children and I would never even contemplate leaving them alone. There are members of my own family I wouldnt let mind them because I don't trust them from a safety perspective. Call me over protective but they are the most important thing to me.

What if the apartment had gone on fire and the children had burnt to death?
Is having a few beers and some tapas with your "mates" more important than the life of your child?

What the McCann's did was 1000% negligent.

mazwell · 20-03-2019 12:08PM

Babooshka wrote: »

Did anyone else notice in episode one that the guy who had a photo of Madeleine with his daughter playing at the play club said they were close in age, there was only months between them...but his daughter was 4 and a half? Probably not worth mentioning but I found that odd.

As far as I know Madeleine was going to be 4 a few days after she disappeared. So there were only months between them

maximoose · 20-03-2019 12:12PM

The story of Rui Pedro in this was heartbreaking

iamwhoiam · 20-03-2019 12:18PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

A lot of people are more outraged that a middle class British family left their kids alone (it seemed a normal thing to do over there) than the child actually been kidnapped. A lot of faux outrage over something that admittedly wasn’t a good idea. I don’t blame the McCanns for what happened at all, I blame the person or persons who stole their little girl.

The parents left the children in a vulnerable position . The failed to keep them safe . If I don't put my child in a car seat and someone crashes into us and the child dies I carry some of the responsibility . As parents its our job to try to remove risks and keep our children safe . Leaving them in an unlocked apartment open to a public road is negletful and irresponsible

And have you any proof that it was normal over there ?

ifElseThen · 20-03-2019 12:23PM

maximoose wrote: »

The story of Rui Pedro in this was heartbreaking

Read up about that Wonderland ring. Shocking & terribly sad stuff. 1200+ kids lives ruined & only 16 identified from the material, including Rui Pedro.
UK jailed a few in early 2000s but they could easily be out now under new identities. The main leader was jailed indefinitely after being busted viewing stuff when he was released.

pc7 · 20-03-2019 12:42PM

maximoose wrote: »

The story of Rui Pedro in this was heartbreaking

I have to say I still feel a bit sick in the pit of my stomach after his story, it is truly the stuff of nightmares.

The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann (Netflix)

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