Bonham Quay development

05-03-2019 10:30PM #1

Given this is the largest development in the center of the city for nearly 2 decades I reckon it warrants its own thread

Contract awarded to begin work on Bonham Quay office development

A contract has been awarded for enabling works on the €105 million Bonham Quay office development.
Enabling works are expected to commence very shortly on the mixed use development of four office blocks with two cafés as part of the Bonham Quay inner city redevelopment.

The new office buildings are being constructed on the site of the former Topaz oil storage facility on Dock road, Queen street, and Bóthar na Long.

Full story at link

https://www.galwaydaily.com/news/bonham-quay-office-contract-awarded/

OwenHanley · 05-03-2019 11:32PM

Kinda crazy this thing has been allowed circumvent the minimum housing requirments of the local area plans. The docks has become a pretty significant residential zone (like it would in any normal city) and really this should be a mixed used space like the rest, albeit skewing towards office space if that was the goal. The student accom promised isn't worth hat until we know it's affordable or not.

But at the same time it's hard to begrudge the progress. That ugly field has been there far too long. I just wish the project was better, anyone can slap a pretty proof-of-concept on anything

brutes1 · 06-03-2019 11:48AM

Once Bonham Quay is complete is will provide 32,000sqm of Grade A office space, accommodating roughly 3,500 people.

138 parking spots

How will they all get there ?!

Is there a workers transport management plan included in the application

what_traffic · 06-03-2019 12:32PM

brutes1 wrote: »

Once Bonham Quay is complete is will provide 32,000sqm of Grade A office space, accommodating roughly 3,500 people.

138 parking spots

How will they all get there ?!

Is there a workers transport management plan included in the application

Yup.
The vast majority of workers will bus, train, cycle and walk to work.

This article gives more detail on the Sq footage
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/spring-start-for-100m-galway-office-scheme-1.3757464
"
The Bonham Quay development, which got the green light from An Bord Pleanála last September, is on a two-acre waterfront site and will provide more than 34,400sq m (370,000sq ft) of Grade A office space. This will be in four blocks ranging in size from 4,790 to 11,560sq m (51,600 to 124,431sq ft) designed with maximum flexibility to allow for multiple occupations.
"

what_traffic · 06-03-2019 12:33PM

OwenHanley wrote: »

Kinda crazy this thing has been allowed circumvent the minimum housing requirments of the local area plans.

Was the issue that there was NO Local Area Plan(LAP)
i.e Galway City Council did not bother with one.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/new-heart-for-old-city-galway-s-massive-regeneration-scheme-1.3664292
"
Similarly, no local area plan was drawn up for Bonham Quay, but Barrett’s team says this was a decision taken by Galway City Council during preparation of its development plan. However, that plan did state that the developers should draw up a masterplan with a “significant level” of engagement with the local authority, the public and adjoining landowners.
"

Wompa1 · 06-03-2019 01:03PM

It's a tough one from what I have head, it seems there are companies who had interest in Galway but backed out due to not finding suitable office space and there are other companies already in Galway who want to move in order to expand but the space doesn't exist.

Hopefully there are plans to have the city grow up and out.

xckjoo · 06-03-2019 01:25PM

what_traffic wrote: »

Was the issue that there was NO Local Area Plan(LAP)
i.e Galway City Council did not bother with one.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/new-heart-for-old-city-galway-s-massive-regeneration-scheme-1.3664292
"
Similarly, no local area plan was drawn up for Bonham Quay, but Barrett’s team says this was a decision taken by Galway City Council during preparation of its development plan. However, that plan did state that the developers should draw up a masterplan with a “significant level” of engagement with the local authority, the public and adjoining landowners.
"

So for what could be one of the most influential revamps of the city centre, they couldn't even be bothered doing a LAP? WTF do they actually do up there? Whos decision was that?

brutes1 · 06-03-2019 02:04PM

what_traffic wrote: »

Yup.
The vast majority of workers will bus, cycle and walk to work.

This article gives more detail on the Sq footage
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/spring-start-for-100m-galway-office-scheme-1.3757464
"
The Bonham Quay development, which got the green light from An Bord Pleanála last September, is on a two-acre waterfront site and will provide more than 34,400sq m (370,000sq ft) of Grade A office space. This will be in four blocks ranging in size from 4,790 to 11,560sq m (51,600 to 124,431sq ft) designed with maximum flexibility to allow for multiple occupations.
"

Is that believable? How many do so currently in similar environs ?

06-03-2019 05:37PM

brutes1 wrote: »

Is that believable? How many do so currently in similar environs ?

Give or take a few hundred, yeah it's about right for something like that

Mrs OBumble · 06-03-2019 10:35PM

brutes1 wrote: »

Is that believable? How many do so currently in similar environs ?

It will take some more park and ride than we have, but is achievable overall.

Some cars are inevitable (senior managers and disabilities) but most can be left at home or on the city outskirts.

brutes1 · 07-03-2019 08:26AM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It will take some more park and ride than we have, but is achievable overall.

Some cars are inevitable (senior managers and disabilities) but most can be left at home or on the city outskirts.

It would be great to see 90% of a workforce cycle or PT to work but Id say its 20% at the minute most places
I read the planning Travel plan and it is so broad as to be meaningless, nothing concrete or planned at all , how do they get these things through . Id expect a Bus route to be added or something , or an analysis of similar developments and outcomes from these to encourage PT.
I am not convinced it wont lead to mass extra traffic and jams barring banning staff from driving in.

Your Face · 07-03-2019 08:30AM

If the rendering in the article is how it's going to look, it's another soul-less area for Galway.

what_traffic · 07-03-2019 10:21AM

brutes1 wrote: »

Is that believable? How many do so currently in similar environs ?

Well what other choices are there?
The roads in Galway City Centre cannot handle any more multi story car parks. They are maxed out.

what_traffic · 07-03-2019 10:23AM

xckjoo wrote: »

So for what could be one of the most influential revamps of the city centre, they couldn't even be bothered doing a LAP? WTF do they actually do up there? Whos decision was that?

It was the main man's decision. The person with the most power in Galway City. He is not elected.

Mrs OBumble · 07-03-2019 11:51AM

xckjoo wrote: »

So for what could be one of the most influential revamps of the city centre, they couldn't even be bothered doing a LAP? WTF do they actually do up there? Whos decision was that?

Ceannt quarter is getting one AFAIK.

Bonham quay is a lot smaller and is basically a large concrete yard at the moment with a cemetery behind it. Its not a local area in itself. The docks, which its part of, possibly should have a LAP. But theres been a lot of planming forv already with the prposed harbour extension.

... and it doesn't need a new bus route cos it's 5 minites walk from all existing bus and train routes.

what_traffic · 07-03-2019 11:54AM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ceannt quarter is getting one AFAIK.

Bonham quay is a lot smaller and is basically a large concrete yard at the moment with a cemetery behind it. Its not a local area in itself. The docks, which its part of, possibly should have a LAP. But theres been a lot of planming forv already with the prposed harbour extension.

Source for that?*
You do not need "locals" living in a place to create an LAP.

*FYI: A public consultation exercise led by a Developer is not the same as a LAP.

xckjoo · 07-03-2019 12:08PM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ceannt quarter is getting one AFAIK.

Bonham quay is a lot smaller and is basically a large concrete yard at the moment with a cemetery behind it. Its not a local area in itself. The docks, which its part of, possibly should have a LAP. But theres been a lot of planming forv already with the prposed harbour extension.

... and it doesn't need a new bus route cos it's 5 minites walk from all existing bus and train routes.

Complex, multi-stage developments are more of a need for all the background work to be done.

what_traffic · 07-03-2019 06:07PM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ceannt quarter is getting one AFAIK.

Anything?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/new-heart-for-old-city-galway-s-massive-regeneration-scheme-1.3664292

“Ceannt Quarter”, which Barrett stresses is a working title, is zoned for mixed use, and Galway City Council opted not to conduct a local area plan for the area – a move criticised by An Taisce’s Galway branch.

Similarly, no local area plan was drawn up for Bonham Quay, but Barrett’s team says this was a decision taken by Galway City Council during preparation of its development plan.
"

Mrs OBumble · 07-03-2019 10:05PM

what_traffic wrote: »

Anthing?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/new-heart-for-old-city-galway-s-massive-regeneration-scheme-1.3664292

Having now done some searching .. you are quite right, there is no LAP to done for the inner docks or Ceannt station area.

As I read about the places which the council is proposing to do an LAP plan for, I wondered which of these you think the council should drop,in order to do one for the Bonham Quay and/or Ceannt areas? (I'm assuming that limited resources means only so many of these can be done an any given planning cycle.)

It also struck me that they make most sense when there is an existing community affected by a proposed change,or where there would be no other body suitable to co-ordinate overall planning for any area.

Developer-led planning can be a bad thing (eg if it puts thousands of houses in an area with no jobs or community facilities). But it's not intrinsically bad - especially when the developer needs to attract commercial tenants who are large enough to savvy fussy about wanting suitable environments for their workers.

brutes1 · 08-03-2019 08:15AM

what_traffic wrote: »

Well what other choices are there?
The roads in Galway City Centre cannot handle any more multi story car parks. They are maxed out.

I totally agree with you and think car driving is a waste of time in cities and PT or bikes or just shanks mare is the only way forward

But if the blocks hold 3500 workers
Where will they come from ?
50% county , 50% city and suburbs most likely
I dont see given current travel patterns how at least 50% wont drive =1750+ cars extra in area+ there will be major extra traffic and huge pressure on parking spots legal or otherwise

The travel plan is not detailed
It doesnt consider in detail the numbers in the development, existing travel patterns nor concrete scenarios and plans for change or new modes of transport

Mrs OBumble · 08-03-2019 08:49AM

brutes1 wrote: »

The travel plan is not detailed
It doesnt consider in detail the numbers in the development, existing travel patterns nor concrete scenarios and plans for change or new modes of transport

People get really upset with suggestions that geographically targetted hiring is needed: they think a small time farmer from Bally-faraway should have as much chance of an inner city job as someone who lives in an urban environment. So if you put that idea in a plan, it will make it harder to sell to potential tenants.

But really it needs to happen if employers are serious about reducing their carbon footprint - or even about retaining a workforce with the small amount of parking that's likely allocated to them.

The council / NTAs role is to make Bally-faraway an acceptable hiring location by provinging park and public transport options. That's covered in the plan that zones areas for development, rather than individual building plans.

brutes1 · 08-03-2019 09:17AM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

People get really upset with suggestions that geographically targetted hiring is needed: they think a small time farmer from Bally-faraway should have as much chance of an inner city job as someone who lives in an urban environment. So if you put that idea in a plan, it will make it harder to sell to potential tenants.

But really it needs to happen if employers are serious about reducing their carbon footprint - or even about retaining a workforce with the small amount of parking that's likely allocated to them.

The council / NTAs role is to make Bally-faraway an acceptable hiring location by provinging park and public transport options. That's covered in the plan that zones areas for development, rather than individual building plans.

No LAP plan here ?

This is a massive development and should have a proper travel plan is my point, 3500 people where else employs that many? Parkmore springs to mind and look at travel chaos there
Why would a proper plan not be there rather than the standard vague reports that are really not adding anything

zell12 · 08-03-2019 09:47AM

You'd never know Bonham is located adjacent city, county, national bus termini and also a rail terminus

what_traffic · 08-03-2019 01:59PM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

As I read about the places which the council is proposing to do an LAP plan for, I wondered which of these you think the council should drop,in order to do one for the Bonham Quay and/or Ceannt areas? (I'm assuming that limited resources means only so many of these can be done an any given planning cycle.)

HA HA HA HA HA HA. Such logic.
LAP are not costly to produce, its clear you do not understand what they are about.
The "cost" to the Council?
Rates Rates Rates is where they get the €€€€€! Thats why no LAP.

what_traffic · 08-03-2019 02:20PM

brutes1 wrote: »

But if the blocks hold 3500 workers
Where will they come from ?
50% county , 50% city and suburbs most likely
I dont see given current travel patterns how at least 50% wont drive =1750+ cars extra in area+ there will be major extra traffic and huge pressure on parking spots legal or otherwise

The travel plan is not detailed
It doesnt consider in detail the numbers in the development, existing travel patterns nor concrete scenarios and plans for change or new modes of transport

Agree.
Your projection stats look good - this mirrors the current CSO distribution of workers in Galway City. (This is why Galway City has the Car traffic it has, no Outer Ring Road will fix that. :rolleyes:)
Interesting thing here though Bonham Quay development could be up and running very soon indeed. I reckon a block could be finished mid 2020. Office block buildings of this scale are very quick to build.
Passed site Wednesday night and it had a drilling derrick in situ.

Mearings · 08-03-2019 03:05PM

Council should get railway double tracking to Athenry as a condition of this development.

what_traffic · 08-03-2019 03:31PM

Mearings wrote: »

Council should get railway double tracking to Athenry as a condition of this development.

That would be about the same cost as the Bonham Quay Development itself. A contribution towards such a scheme would make sense. Its kind of thing you might include in an LAP.

what_traffic · 08-03-2019 03:39PM

http://www.bdp.com/en/projects/a-e/bonham-quay/

Will Galway Port be planting all the trees and removing its Quayside Car Park I wonder?

stampydmonkey · 08-03-2019 10:31PM

Souless looking building

Patrick 1959 · 10-03-2019 02:26AM

Looks great . Looks to me like it’ will transform a run down area adjacent to the city center enlarging Galways central shopping and Business district.

Mrs OBumble · 10-03-2019 12:37PM

what_traffic wrote: »

That would be about the same cost as the Bonham Quay Development itself. A contribution towards such a scheme would make sense. Its kind of thing you might include in an LAP.

Can LOCAL area plan really include things like that, in an area miles away under the control od a different TLA?

Bonham Quay development

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