Dublin Bus UCD Anti Social Behaviour

Stephen15 · 09-03-2019 10:02pm #1

As has been recently talked about in the news and media unfortunately DB have been having trouble in UCD with anti social behaviour from drunken students with buses not stopping there after a certain time. Obviously I agree that drivers and passengers deserve a safe travelling/working environment.

But what I don't understand is why DB aren't using their standard procedure in place for dealing with such incidents like do in other areas with common anti social behaviour such as Neilstown, Jobstown, Finglas West and Ballyfermot with buses being pulled for an hour on the first incident and for the rest of the night at the second incident and this being publicised on their website and social media.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they have a union agreement with other areas when there's anti social behaviour but this those not appear to be the case with UCD with it left as it appear purely up to the individual drivers discreation and no disruptive passengers being left in the dark.

Yakov P. Golyadkin · 09-03-2019 10:10pm

The 46a and 145 both serve this particular stop, pulling them would leave a lot of people without a service. It's also the case that the 39 starts in UCD so even if the 46a and 145 skip the stop there's still a service to the city centre.
More speculatively, I get the impression that the carry on is more of a nuisance than actively dangerous and individual drivers decide they don't want the hassle so skip the stop. It's been happening for at least ten years too, on more than one occasion I've been on a late 46a into town that stayed on the N11 rather than passing UCD.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 09-03-2019 10:35pm

I don't see how pulling the service is beneficial in the long run, why are the police not called to deal with such behaviour? The drunken twits don't care if the service is pulled. It only puts out everybody else who need the service.

TheQuietFella · 09-03-2019 10:41pm

A few country lads up from the country bedazzled by all the bright lights and the company when all they're used to is the barn and walking up the boreen late into the evening! The novelty will come to pass....eventually!

Stephen15 · 09-03-2019 10:51pm

Yakov P. Golyadkin wrote: »

The 46a and 145 both serve this particular stop, pulling them would leave a lot of people without a service. It's also the case that the 39 starts in UCD so even if the 46a and 145 skip the stop there's still a service to the city centre.
More speculatively, I get the impression that the carry on is more of a nuisance than actively dangerous and individual drivers decide they don't want the hassle so skip the stop. It's been happening for at least ten years too, on more than one occasion I've been on a late 46a into town that stayed on the N11 rather than passing UCD.

The 39 doesn't serve UCD so I assume you mean the 39a. I believe the 39a starts a couple of stops after UCD and doesn't go into the campus itself after a certain time. Generally in areas with anti social behaviour issues there is a procedure in place that is agreed with drivers to be adhered to and any driver not complying with it is disciplined accordingly.

I'm not sure exactly but I believe there have been issues with buses being damaged and students breaking the windows on buses meaning they have to be pulled from service and taken back to the garage also drivers have been threatened and students gotten on and refused to pay fares. Also believe there have been buses which have had bottles thrown at them which I would regard as potentially dangerous behaviour.

Stephen15 · 09-03-2019 10:56pm

Kamila Swift Foot wrote: »

I don't see how pulling the service is beneficial in the long run, why are the police not called to deal with such behaviour? The drunken twits don't care if the service is pulled. It only puts out everybody else who need the service.

I'm sure the drivers are requesting Garda assistance when needed. Preventing and reducing anti social is the work of AGS not DB but DB have the role of keeping staff and passengers safe.

thomasj · 09-03-2019 11:07pm

Stephen15 wrote:

The 39 doesn't serve UCD so I assume you mean the 39a. I believe the 39a starts a couple of stops after UCD and doesn't go into the campus itself after a certain time. Generally in areas with anti social behaviour issues there is a procedure in place that is agreed with drivers to be adhered to and any driver not complying with it is disciplined accordingly.

The last 39 departure leaves UCD at 11.10pm

Stephen15 · 09-03-2019 11:10pm

thomasj wrote: »

The last 39 departure leaves UCD at 11.10pm

I forgot about that one does it actually serve UCD most nights or start a few stops after UCD?

thomasj · 09-03-2019 11:27pm

Stephen15 wrote:

I forgot about that one does it actually serve UCD most nights or start a few stops after UCD?

According to tweets online the 39/as don't stop in the bus park after 10pm

poisonated · 09-03-2019 11:32pm

something like this has been happening for at least the last few years.

Stephen15 · 09-03-2019 11:46pm

poisonated wrote: »

something like this has been happening for at least the last few years.

From what I gather that is true. The problem I have is that DB aren't publishing their arrangements for late night buses serving UCD if buses aren't serving UCD why aren't they telling passengers so they can make alternative arrangements like they would if the 27 is out of Jobstown for the night.

Why is DB treating UCD differently to Jobstown, Finglas, Neilstown or Ballyfermot etc. when it comes to anti social behaviour or are there other areas where buses are pulled from due to anti social behaviour but it isin't reported.

Charles Babbage · 10-03-2019 12:00am

This would seem to be something that could be managed. Have a chat with the Gardai and put offenders off at the Donnybrook Garda station would get the message across. The 39A stop is on UCD property, making it possible for the college to throw the book at offenders. There needs to be a good effort made to maintain service and if Dublin Bus wish to amend their routes then they must publish the changes and ensure that electronic signs etc reflect the change, this does not seem to be happening.

Stephen15 · 10-03-2019 12:43am

Charles Babbage wrote: »

This would seem to be something that could be managed. Have a chat with the Gardai and put offenders off at the Donnybrook Garda station would get the message across. The 39A stop is on UCD property, making it possible for the college to throw the book at offenders. There needs to be a good effort made to maintain service and if Dublin Bus wish to amend their routes then they must publish the changes and ensure that electronic signs etc reflect the change, this does not seem to be happening.

Or perhaps with the student residences they could introduce a curfew and close down the student bar until they can behave themselves. Some the sense of entitlement coming from the students is jsut ridiculous.

Charles Babbage · 10-03-2019 12:59am

Stephen15 wrote: »

Or perhaps with the student residences they could introduce a curfew and close down the student bar until they can behave themselves. Some the sense of entitlement coming from the students is jsut ridiculous.

Are they getting drunk in the bar? Is the modern approach not to tank up on spirits in the residences and then go to town?

Stephen15 · 10-03-2019 1:05am

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Are they getting drunk in the bar? Is the modern approach not to tank up on spirits in the residences and then go to town?

That's why they should have a curfew in the residences aswell

poisonated · 10-03-2019 2:32am

I do not agree with the idea of a blanket curfew... that would be punishing the masses for the fault of a few.

Stephen15 · 10-03-2019 2:42am

poisonated wrote: »

I do not agree with the idea of a blanket curfew... that would be punishing the masses for the fault of a few.

There wouldn't be a need for it if they behaved themselves it would be the last resort if trouble was to become the norm. It would be part of the contract when signing up for student residences don't want the curfew don't get a place in the residences or have a complete ban on any sort of parties in the residences if breached eviction. Harsh but fair if you ask me.

StreetLight · 10-03-2019 2:49am

This whole situation is ridiculous. We're talking about supposedly bright people with enough intelligence to study at UCD, yet can't control their urges to cause wanton vandalism. They need the threat of a financial sanction, coupled with a bloody good kick up the árse.

poisonated · 10-03-2019 2:51am

Stephen15 wrote: »

There wouldn't be a need for it if they behaved themselves it would be the last resort if trouble was to become the norm. It would be part of the contract when signing up for student residences don't want the curfew don't get a place in the residences or have a complete ban on any sort of parties in the residences if breached eviction. Harsh but fair if you ask me.

But for a lot of people, their only crime is going to UCD. If a person who had green eyes committed a crime, you wouldn’t round up all the people with green eyes and send them to prison. Only the person who committed a crime should face the consequences.

Disclaimer: I don’t go to UCD

Stephen15 · 10-03-2019 3:13am

poisonated wrote: »

But for a lot of people, their only crime is going to UCD. If a person who had green eyes committed a crime, you wouldn’t round up all the people with green eyes and send them to prison. Only the person who committed a crime should face the consequences.

Disclaimer: I don’t go to UCD

Well the idea would be that curfews would be introduced temporarily until the issue calmed down. What would happen is that if a curfew was introduced the people causing trouble would probably quit the residences and they could replace them with people who actually do want to be there and they could be used as a threat for students to calm down.

If you don't want to live by the rules of the residence then find somewhere else to stay would be the logic. I'm sick of hearing moaning from privileged students about non real world issues.

Maybe they will quit the complaining when they actually had to do a hard days work. Who else is going into town on a Tuesday night when everyone is in bed other than students. It's fair that people are being denied a bus service in their area as people live and work in the vicinity of UCD.

poisonated · 10-03-2019 3:48am

Wouldn’t agree with that at all. A lost of students work on the weekends and thus can’t go out at the weekend. In other words, they are working 7 days a week( study plus job). I m not a student but can put my self in their shoes. This idea of “those privileged kids” privileged why? Because they are in college? There is a thing called susi grants. There is a thing called scholarships. They want to better their lives and I say fair play to them. The majority are hard working and don’t cause any harm.

Lord Glentoran · 10-03-2019 12:14pm

Says a lot that the same nonsense isn’t happening around Trinity. Country bais dazzled by being away from Mammy’s leash, I reckon.

punisher5112 · 10-03-2019 12:28pm

Buses have been destroyed inside with ceiling panels destroyed, hand rails pulled off etc etc.

Bottles smashed and left rolling around, cans of piss and puke, pint glasses same.....

The abuse of them getting off is disgusting also.

Had it happen many times over the years where they would want say lesson st but not bother pressing the bell or making their way down then they would all get off on Dawson Street and throw abuse and even cans on a few occasions.

Banging on the floor with their feet, screaming like a banshee and wailing etc on the way in.

Passengers already on board would move downstairs under fear and the noise only to be subjected to the bangs now above their heads.

I have no issues with someone have a laugh, good night or day and of course having a few fizzy drinks once they behave themselves.

I've no issues even though it's illegal to drink or eat on a bus once they respect others including myself and take their bottles with them.

Having glass or plastic bottles rolling around is a serious safety issue as they can roll under one's foot when walking and cause a bad fall and also the bottles smashing.

These bottles then can actually cause the doors to jam and get stuck also as they roll down to them with movement of the bus.

Buses will stop in their if the ones causing the trouble grow up and treat others and themselves with respect but until that can be shown I don't see any changes.

It's the same though anywhere across the city though as you can just tell when the group you're stopping for is going to be troublesome and then the game of not paying starts or paying a €1 fare at 11pm and them all going to the city drinking cans or vodka etc....

Atlantic Dawn · 10-03-2019 12:30pm

How is stuff like this allowed happen in this country, why not just put 4 plain clothes Gardaí on every bus going through that area each evening and arrest every single person acting the clown, problem solved, hardly a need to setup a research group and have a study on the problem.

Heroditas · 10-03-2019 12:33pm

poisonated wrote: »

something like this has been happening for at least the last few years.

It was happening when I started there in 92!
Seems to die down for a year or two and then flare up again.

punisher5112 · 10-03-2019 12:34pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

How is stuff like this allowed happen in this country, why not just put 4 plain clothes Gardaí on every bus going through that area each evening and arrest every single person acting the clown, problem solved, hardly a need to setup a research group and have a study on the problem.

As per usual there isn't any Gardai to do this.

Qrt · 10-03-2019 12:34pm

Isn’t the crux of the issue being that there hasn’t been many incidents of anti-social behaviour, and DB are just skipping the stops anyway?

StreetLight · 10-03-2019 12:40pm

No, the crux of the issue is that this has been happening for YEARS and nothing has changed.
The definition of stupidity is doing things the same way but expecting a different result.
The Gardaí are simply not interested, so it's up to bus drivers to make a stand for the safety of themselves and their decent passengers.

strandroad · 10-03-2019 1:04pm

Qrt wrote: »

Isn’t the crux of the issue being that there hasn’t been many incidents of anti-social behaviour, and DB are just skipping the stops anyway?

It is. Drivers take the N11, they can't even see if there are any large or rowdy groups on the actual overpass stop. It's a blanket stop boycott, not a response to any actual risk.

punisher5112 · 10-03-2019 1:10pm

strandroad wrote: »

It is. Drivers take the N11, they can't even see if there are any large or rowdy groups on the actual overpass stop. It's a blanket stop boycott, not a response to any actual risk.

Some of the newer guys have gone up after 10pm and the buses thrashed.

thomasj · 10-03-2019 1:23pm

Maybe it's time for UCD to hold these guys accountable for their actions. After all it's the reputation of the college at risk.

AlekSmart · 10-03-2019 1:25pm

Heroditas wrote: »

It was happening when I started there in 92!
Seems to die down for a year or two and then flare up again.

It dies down on an annual basis,restarting usually with each years freshers intake,when the previous years moulted birds,bring the fledglings on their first flights out of the nest.
Just as with a mating ritual,there is great competion to see who can be the MOST "Crazy" "Mad" "Wild" tutor,and who can be the equal in the new groups.

What usually dampens the entire thing down is the approach of exams,when the Student Body,as a group,are suddenly made aware that being able to do sums and joined up writing,does not necessarily guarantee them a worthwhile degree in anything of value to Business & Commerce. (Arts operates on a totally different plane :eek:).

There is a very real correlation between this long standing vandalist codology,and the decline of Irish Universities standards,worldwide....

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-universities-world-rankings-4056883-Jun2018/

The headline is deadly accurate....

Fall of Irish universities in world rankings 'disappointing but not a surprise'

It is certainly not a surprise to Busdrivers (many of whom have Sons & Daughters attending these institutions),who are perhaps far more aware of developing trends,long before they become apparent to College Authorities,Councillors or,for sure...Parents.

In the short term,it is the College Authorities who have the most to lose here,as the standings of their Institutions continue to decline,except that there is no "Politically Correct" way they can find to deal with it.

The Bold Corner or Suspension may have worked in 1st and 2nd Level,but once you start playing in the Big Yard,you must expect far more exacting sanctions.

Meantime,all we will hear is the loud,repeated calls for "More Investment",which presumably will stretch to Taxi's on demand,for all Freshers and partners heading Townwards of a Tuesday Night ....;)

So don't fret,civilization will reclaim the N11 around June

turbowolfed · 10-03-2019 1:47pm

I'm someone who does go to UCD (doing a master's) and doesn't live on campus, never even been in the student bar. I'm pretty dependent on the buses to actually pick me up so I can go home. There's been a good few times now I've had to stay back in the library and been left stranded at the bus stop.

I understand that there is anti-social behavior from some of the drunk young ones. It is annoying. Dangerous. They should have the book thrown at them if they're causing damage.

But UCD is huge and there's far more people just trying to get home after their day, then there are causing trouble. Ultimately i don't think it should be up to each bus driver to decide willy-nilly that they can just skip the stop and leave the rest of us in the lurch.

punisher5112 · 10-03-2019 3:19pm

In all honesty the drivers want an easy life and don't need any more added stress to the stressful environment the job is already.

Drivers are on their own and have no protection or backing from the company.

I could quote quite a few instances but I don't want to be identified.

I have waited for assistance after being assaulted for 3½ hours.

The inspectors which are on mega money should be out doing their jobs and not sitting in a depot watching TV behind the hatch.

Imo they do as little as possible and are only interested in catching a driver out on some Tyson they can book them.

I've asked for assistance of different ones over the years to be either ignored or told it's not in their job description and sure I could have told the person the issue etc etc.

Drivers are left in a very tough spot and do not want to go out of their way to upset or burden others but it's the only way and I'm surprised it's only hitting the news now as I know this has been going on in my time near 14 years at the company.

Qrt · 10-03-2019 3:41pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

In all honesty the drivers want an easy life and don't need any more added stress to the stressful environment the job is already.

Drivers are on their own and have no protection or backing from the company.

I could quote quite a few instances but I don't want to be identified.

I have waited for assistance after being assaulted for 3½ hours.

The inspectors which are on mega money should be out doing their jobs and not sitting in a depot watching TV behind the hatch.

Imo they do as little as possible and are only interested in catching a driver out on some Tyson they can book them.

I've asked for assistance of different ones over the years to be either ignored or told it's not in their job description and sure I could have told the person the issue etc etc.

Drivers are left in a very tough spot and do not want to go out of their way to upset or burden others but it's the only way and I'm surprised it's only hitting the news now as I know this has been going on in my time near 14 years at the company.

Can I ask, do you use the screen all the time? I mean, drivers being subjected to abuse is disgusting and the perpetrators need to be shot out of a cannon to somewhere far far far away, but even on the 27, I often see drivers with the screens down.

punisher5112 · 10-03-2019 6:35pm

Qrt wrote: »

Can I ask, do you use the screen all the time? I mean, drivers being subjected to abuse is disgusting and the perpetrators need to be shot out of a cannon to somewhere far far far away, but even on the 27, I often see drivers with the screens down.

It's a thing where it's up it's used as a punch bag, you can't hear a thing through it, it can be quite squashed in there too.

I use to be erected put it up but had too much hassle upstairs where they would ask was it up each time something would happen.

I've only started having it up all the time that over a year and God did it feel weird and also at night the shining of lights and reflection can be difficult too.

Eric Cartman · 10-03-2019 6:42pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Says a lot that the same nonsense isn’t happening around Trinity. Country bais dazzled by being away from Mammy’s leash, I reckon.

those trinity students often live in town, wouldnt get the bus ha.

its all to do with the increase in cocaine use, we've reached peak boom again and the amount of people wandering round town high as a kite only awake because of columbian magic, some of the calmest pubs in the city now will have some young lads roaring at each other and kicking off because of it.

Atlantic Dawn · 10-03-2019 6:46pm

Why does the CCTV of people onboard wrecking the buses not make its way on to Crimecall for these individuals to be identified?

boombang · 10-03-2019 7:08pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

How is stuff like this allowed happen in this country, why not just put 4 plain clothes Gardaí on every bus going through that area each evening and arrest every single person acting the clown, problem solved, hardly a need to setup a research group and have a study on the problem.

Ireland, the land of non enforcement. From Pat Hickey, the Banks, to Balbriggan and Finglas. Nobody has the balls to stamp out anti social behaviour of one sort or other.

Stephen15 · 10-03-2019 7:17pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

It's a thing where it's up it's used as a punch bag, you can't hear a thing through it, it can be quite squashed in there too.

I use to be erected put it up but had too much hassle upstairs where they would ask was it up each time something would happen.

I've only started having it up all the time that over a year and God did it feel weird and also at night the shining of lights and reflection can be difficult too.

Over in London the assault screen is sealed meaning the driver cannot open even if he/she wished noticed this in other cities too. Would drivers be unhappy if they did that here too?

expectationlost · 10-03-2019 7:46pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Why does the CCTV of people onboard wrecking the buses not make its way on to Crimecall for these individuals to be identified?

or to the UCD authorities?

Eric Cartman · 10-03-2019 7:48pm

expectationlost wrote: »

or to the UCD authorities?

GDPR sadly.

You'd need to pay an editor to blur all the faces not involved, which at bus angles might yield unusable footage , you also have a problem with a lot of young people dressing the same, two young lads with that stupid shaved sides mop on top haircut both in black bubble jackets and one throws a bottle and you accidentally show the other one getting off the bus and you're done.

markpb · 10-03-2019 9:17pm

expectationlost wrote: »

or to the UCD authorities?

You’re aware of the population of UCD when you make statements like that, right? How would that work, DB would pass photos of ten students to some random staff member in UCD and ask them if they’ve seen them before?

AlekSmart · 11-03-2019 7:23am

markpb wrote: »

You’re aware of the population of UCD when you make statements like that, right? How would that work, DB would pass photos of ten students to some random staff member in UCD and ask them if they’ve seen them before?

The essence then,being the Irish Solution....do nothing,and do it repeatedly.

As others have pointed out,this idiocy has been ongoing now for decades,and worsening every year.

Safest thing (for a career administrator) is to avoid the spotlight,do NOT be the one who gets too embroiled in a "Joe Duffy" post match review,and let the Busdriver be the responsible person for the actions of a LARGE amount of the UCD Student Body,both on & off the Bus.

This stuff is NOT just the actions of a few.

markpb · 11-03-2019 12:17pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

The essence then,being the Irish Solution....do nothing,and do it repeatedly.

That's not what I said at all. Making suggestions that are completely unworkable is worse than doing nothing. All it does it gives the person saying it a feeling that they are contributing and let's them wonder why others aren't as clever as them. If the problematic passengers were getting on at a different bus stop, what would happen? Would we be suggesting that DB canvas the local residents association for help policing the issue? Of course, not. The right solution for this is for AGS to act on it. Of course, that's unlikely to happen so all we can do is canvas our politicians to add additional resources to AGS or, preferably, for the creation of a transport police force.

Charles Babbage · 11-03-2019 2:23pm

Of all the issues that arise in Dublin, this issue might seem one that something can be done about. This problem is located where a bus depot and garda station are within the next few stops. Those involved haven't for the most part opted out of society and would not be keen on a conviction as it would stop you getting a J1. Definite action, perhaps at the start of the academic year, would set the tone and things could be dampened down and there is something of herd instinct here, if things are calmed others will then be less inclined to act the maggot.

expectationlost · 11-03-2019 6:04pm

well you can be discipined gor conduct outside the college

UCD Student Code
http://www.ucd.ie/governance/resources/policypage-studentcode/

Breaches of Discipline
Any act or omission, which affects adversely the rights of any other member of the academic community, or which
disrupts the orderly and responsible conduct of any University activity, or which violates any University Regulation,
shall constitute a breach of discipline, examples of which could include but are not limited to:

6.18 Any activity, whether committed inside or outside the University, which adversely affects, or is likely to
adversely affect, the reputation of the University, its students or members of staff.

AlekSmart · 11-03-2019 6:23pm

expectationlost wrote: »

well you can be discipined gor conduct outside the college

UCD Student Code
http://www.ucd.ie/governance/resources/policypage-studentcode/

Excellent stuff !

Presumably all students will have been required to accept and sign this Student Code ?

If so then it offers a very strong rod with which to birch the offenders.
If the UCD authorities and Bus Companies can be enticed to bring the Student Code to the forefront,then with clear CCTV footage,it should be relatively easy to find a willing volunteer to be the first dope to be expelled for acting the Jinnet in public.

So,it's a waiting game now.

Wishbone Ash · 12-03-2019 12:15am

Heroditas wrote: »

It was happening when I started there in 92!
Seems to die down for a year or two and then flare up again.

StreetLight wrote: »

No, the crux of the issue is that this has been happening for YEARS and nothing has changed....

I travelled that route regularly in 1989/1990 (not as a UCD student) and it was going on then.

Yer Da sells Avon · 12-03-2019 2:54am

Stephen15 wrote: »

Over in London the assault screen is sealed meaning the driver cannot open even if he/she wished noticed this in other cities too. Would drivers be unhappy if they did that here too?

I'd start looking for another job straight away. I experimented with the screen up all the way recently, on a late run on the 75, and hated it. It felt claustrophobic and I couldn't hear anyone properly. I think it creates an unfriendly and 'distant' atmosphere between the driver and passengers. If I wanted to speak to people through a screen, I'd get a job in a bank. The chance of taking a punch from a passenger is so low on the routes I drive that it feels completely unnecessary.

dashcamdanny · 12-03-2019 12:26pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

I'd start looking for another job straight away. I experimented with the screen up all the way recently, on a late run on the 75, and hated it. It felt claustrophobic and I couldn't hear anyone properly. I think it creates an unfriendly and 'distant' atmosphere between the driver and passengers. If I wanted to speak to people through a screen, I'd get a job in a bank. The chance of taking a punch from a passenger is so low on the routes I drive that it feels completely unnecessary.

As long as you realize that if you do get attacked and hurt, the first question your company will ask is " ......"
I think you know the answer to that.

It may also affect any payed time off to recover from injury inflicted or a claim.

In sh1t hole areas in Dublin mine is up.

I have been attacked more than once.

If UCD was on my route. I would not be stopping for a bunch of lads either. No way in hell I need that BS in my day.

Dublin Bus UCD Anti Social Behaviour

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