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Leaving Neverland - Michael Jackson Documentary [HBO]

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Comments

  • #182
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm not sure this is worth my time. Many sources saying its abosolute nonsense


  • #183
    dhaughton99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭dhaughton99


    Eamon Dunphy told a story about seeing Jackson and a kid in the Shelbourne hotel years ago on his radio show. Anyone remember the details?


  • #184
    sligeach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,954 ✭✭✭✭sligeach


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm not sure this is worth my time. Many sources saying its abosolute nonsense

    This fictional nonsense of a movie isn't worth anybody's time. It should be nominated for Golden Raspberry Awards; Worst Picture, Worst Director, Worst Actor, Worst Supporting Actor, Worst Screenplay, etc.


  • #185
    Anthonylfc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 282 ✭✭Anthonylfc


    so yer man wade testified for Michael and now against him , and that guy from the pepsi commercial ha ha , what a weirdo

    see him saying " michael liked him to bend over and spread his cheeks so michael could **** " i actually spat out my tea with laughter ha ha , how he kept a straight face through that i'll never know , he seems like a box full of issues

    and his mother allowing a 7/8 year old to go sleep in a grown mans bedroom rings alarm bells

    yanks be crazy


  • #186
    sligeach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,954 ✭✭✭✭sligeach


    Why is there so little media skepticism about Leaving Neverland and its allegations against Michael Jackson?

    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/03/06/mich-m06.html

    Excellent article. I note the author of the piece, David Walsh.


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  • #187
    XLR 8
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 209 ✭✭XLR 8


    While I have no axe to grind against MJ I've always found it odd that he spent so much time around kids. He did admit to sleeping with children albeit as friends. It's still weird behavior for an adult. The guys in the documentary seemed genuine enough. However they should sue they're parents who facilitated Jackson. The whole thing is creepy. His music was never my cup of tea as I ain't into pop.


  • #188
    Anthonylfc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 282 ✭✭Anthonylfc


    XLR 8 wrote: »
    While I have no axe to grind against MJ I've always found it odd that he spent so much time around kids. He did admit to sleeping with children albeit as friends. It's still weird behavior for an adult. The guys in the documentary seemed genuine enough. However they should sue they're parents who facilitated Jackson. The whole thing is creepy. His music was never my cup of tea as I ain't into pop.

    only pop that the peado was into was popping kids holes

    why a parent in their right mind wouldlet a kid sleep with an adult is beyond me

    i mean come on ffs anybody with the head screwed on would think he was a weirdo / sicko


  • #189
    Mr.Wemmick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,191 ✭✭✭Mr.Wemmick


    sligeach wrote: »
    Why is there so little media skepticism about Leaving Neverland and its allegations against Michael Jackson?

    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/03/06/mich-m06.html

    Excellent article. I note the author of the piece, David Walsh.

    From the article:

    "Even if Jackson were a pedophile, and the film’s “first-hand account” provides no substantiation whatsoever of that claim, those who made Leaving Neverland and those promoting it are morally deplorable and shameless. They are seeking to profit from the film and exploit the events to advance their careers and make money."
    Okay, fair enough statement.

    But then Walsh goes onto question, scrutinize the director and offer criticism of his earlier works while making excuses and speaking in kinder terms of Jackson referring his Peter Pan complex and his troubled child hood. That's when I stopped reading. Complete bollox. If you're going to write an objective piece and put an argument forth, then apply your logic to everyone equally.

    If you don't know the two lads are lying, then you don't know Jackson isn't either when he claimed his innocence, platonic bed-sharing etc.. If the documentary is an opinion piece, it is entitled to be written, created and produced.. and Walsh can write whatever he wishes to suit his narrative.

    The article is quite worthless, in my opinion. A long drawn out moan.

    “The fact that society believes a man who says he’s a woman, instead of a woman who says he’s not, is proof that society knows exactly who is the man and who is the woman.”

    - Jen Izaakson



  • #190
    pc7
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 14,274 Mod ✭✭✭✭pc7


    Any chance we can stop with the big shouty text, its really annoying when trying to follow the thread.

    In my opinion I believe he was a pedophile, his behavior is like Pedo School 101 in terms of grooming, isolation etc. As for these guys lying under oath, many victims of abuse will defend and even 'love' their abusers, its how the fookers can get away with it for so long. Either way I hope they can find peace in their lives if it was true. Just all so unbelievably sad.


  • #191
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    mod: this is reminder that folks should read the charter; you can find it here. To be specific:
    • Using jumbo fonts to get your point across is just annoying. Please don't do it.

    Nor is spamming the channel with links, videos or tweets particularly helpful to the discussion either. If you want to debate the content of the show, do so, but at least try to engage in discussion instead of link spamming. I appreciate the subject is obviously emotionally charged, but try and use your head.

    Thanks.


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  • #192
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    I watched the first episode last night. I believe them.

    Never realised how many times Jackson surrounded himself with young boys. I'm too young to remember but did the general public not find this dodgy even before the court cases came to light?


  • #193
    Mr.Wemmick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,191 ✭✭✭Mr.Wemmick


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    I watched the first episode last night. I believe them.

    Never realised how many times Jackson surrounded himself with young boys. I'm too young to remember but did the general public not find this dodgy even before the court cases came to light?

    If memory serves, back in the late 90s, on one of the American music award nights or MTV awards, Jackson sat in the audience with a boy in his lap and there were many other show bizz/music heads sitting around him feeling uncomfortable. The papers were full of the story the next day. Lots of folks saying it was weird.. wasn't he called wacko jacko at one point?

    As I said in a previous post, Quincy Jones hinted in his documentary that there were something amiss about Jackson. So yeah, I think everyone knew things weren't right and thought him dodgy.

    “The fact that society believes a man who says he’s a woman, instead of a woman who says he’s not, is proof that society knows exactly who is the man and who is the woman.”

    - Jen Izaakson



  • #194
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    Never realised how many times Jackson surrounded himself with young boys. I'm too young to remember but did the general public not find this dodgy even before the court cases came to light?

    I was struck by this too. When you see the extent of it it’s hard to fathom how more questions weren’t asked.


  • #195
    sligeach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,954 ✭✭✭✭sligeach


    Have people read this letter from the Michael Jackson Estate attorney, Howard Weitzman to Richard Plepler, Chief Executive Officer of HBO?

    Michael Jackson Estate Letter of FACTS – Debunking “Leaving Neverland”

    https://mjjjusticeproject.wordpress.com/2019/02/09/michael-jackson-estate-letter-of-facts-debunking-leaving-neverland/

    It's a very long letter, most sites just quote sections, but I suggest people read it, all of it, particularly those who think Michael is guilty, then try saying they believe the 2 accusers. Though the letter contains a lot, "the information discussed in this letter is just the tip of the iceberg on these two."

    I was quoting some of it, but then removed it. It has to be read in full.


  • #196
    Lithium93_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,990 ✭✭✭✭Lithium93_


    sligeach wrote: »
    Have people read this letter from the Michael Jackson Estate attorney, Howard Weitzman to Richard Plepler, Chief Executive Officer of HBO?

    Michael Jackson Estate Letter of FACTS – Debunking “Leaving Neverland”

    https://mjjjusticeproject.wordpress.com/2019/02/09/michael-jackson-estate-letter-of-facts-debunking-leaving-neverland/

    It's a very long letter, most sites just quote sections, but I suggest people read it, all of it, particularly those who think Michael is guilty, then try saying they believe the 2 accusers. Though the letter contains a lot, "the information discussed in this letter is just the tip of the iceberg on these two."

    I was quoting some of it, but then removed it. It has to be read in full.

    It's an incredibly long read, but interesting. The 2 are absolute chancers of the highest order who have the audacity to even try this, when they both already owe The Jackson Estate for court costs.


  • #197
    sligeach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,954 ✭✭✭✭sligeach


    goat2 wrote: »
    Why did they wait until after his death to come out with this,

    Their careers weren't in great shape, financial difficulties, marriage difficulties in the case of Robson, they're scum. They're looking for a massive payday. Dead men can't defend themselves or sue them. Robson also would have been guilty of perjury until around June 2012. He wrote a draft of his book in late 2012/early 2013. Early 2013 is around when legal proceedings started by Robson. Safechuck joined in in 2014 and they used the same law firm.


  • #198
    cena
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,138 ✭✭✭✭cena


    I can't bring myself to watch this. No need to ruin his name ten years after his death


  • #199
    sligeach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,954 ✭✭✭✭sligeach


    Lithium93_ wrote: »
    It's an incredibly long read, but interesting. The 2 are absolute chancers of the highest order who have the audacity to even try this, when they both already owe The Jackson Estate for court costs.

    They're chancers alright. Robson’s initial lawsuit was dismissed in 2015 for being filed too late. A year later, Robson filed an amended complaint, claiming that MJJ Productions and MJJ Ventures are both “child sexual abuse operations”. Again it was dismissed. Safechuck did similar.


  • #200
    jeremyj1968
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭jeremyj1968


    I'm almost finished the first one and a couple of things struck me

    - the parents make Kate and Gerry McCann look like parents of the year. One set of parents left their son with Michael Jackson for six days!!! Six f**king days and they didn't know him at all. And one of the kids was on the phone to MJ for "six hours at a time". Who allows their kid to be on the phone for six hours.
    - The one guy talks about how Jackson bought sexual favours with jewelry. Tries on the ring, puts it back in it's box, then looks to the ground and says I don't like looking at the jewelry any more. Then why keep it for thirty years, and why TRY IT ON!!
    - The families really are leeches, just hanging out of Jackson for all the free holidays / hotels / concerts that they could get. At some stage you would have thought Jackson would have said "listen Cobber, get your bag and baggage and get the f**k out of my house, you've overstayed your welcome".
    - A lot of it seemed very contrived. Like when one of the boys said that Michael told him that you "should never trust women". Seemed like a very deliberate, cynical attempt at getting the feminists on side.


  • #201
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Just finished the whole thing. It's very convincing. I won't be avoiding his music out of protest or anything.


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  • #202
    Mr.Wemmick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,191 ✭✭✭Mr.Wemmick


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Just finished the whole thing. It's very convincing. I won't be avoiding his music out of protest or anything.

    I think he is guilty, thought so for many years. Very dodgy, the carry-on of him..

    I listened to Off The Wall earlier this evening and he was a different person then, he looked normal before he got all the crazy surgery done to his face and stopped eating. Anyway, listening to the album I just keep hearing the work of Quincy Jones in every nook and cranny. Some great songs in there.. and I actually much prefer it to Thriller, even though I know Thriller is exceptionally good.

    “The fact that society believes a man who says he’s a woman, instead of a woman who says he’s not, is proof that society knows exactly who is the man and who is the woman.”

    - Jen Izaakson



  • #203
    nc6000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,424 ✭✭✭nc6000


    I wonder why they keep showing their weddings rings so prominently.


  • #204
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I thought it was heavily scripted, by lawyers; it’s an insult to genuine documentary makers to call it a “documentary”; it’s completely unbalanced.

    I’m not here to debate the issues dealt with- I just think it’s terrible programming and a woeful attempt at accurate broadcasting.


  • #205
    fritzelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,118 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    I like the quote in the wordpress article
    "A lie goes halfway around the world before the truth puts its boots on"
    Judge, jury and execution by social media

    Don't believe a word out of these two guys mouths - was an excellently scripted one sided documentary with nothing to try and counter the allegations. As for the mother (cannot remember whose mother) - I wonder how many script writers worked on her dialogue

    Hope they win their case against HBO


  • #206
    The Crowman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 991 ✭✭✭The Crowman


    Mr.Wemmick wrote: »
    If memory serves, back in the late 90s, on one of the American music award nights or MTV awards, Jackson sat in the audience with a boy in his lap and there were many other show bizz/music heads sitting around him feeling uncomfortable. The papers were full of the story the next day. Lots of folks saying it was weird.. wasn't he called wacko jacko at one point?

    As I said in a previous post, Quincy Jones hinted in his documentary that there were something amiss about Jackson. So yeah, I think everyone knew things weren't right and thought him dodgy.

    The Wacko Jacko moniker goes well back to the mid 80's or so when his changing appearance from plastic surgery became increasingly apparent and the whole Bubbles the chimp thing. I can always remember him as being seen as very weird.


  • #207
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,519 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Social media is awful nowadays. It was excellent before the stupid took over.

    Michael Jackson never grew up. He liked to play kids games, that's why he had loads of children as friends. He wasn't a paedoophile.

    It's just retarded that people think he was.

    These guys are after money, they should be locked up for continuing to try to tarnish the name of an innocent dead man.


  • #208
    sligeach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,954 ✭✭✭✭sligeach


    https://twitter.com/JuliaBerkowitz1/status/1084389275318276096

    Gee, I wonder why this case was dismissed as well by a judge? You couldn't make this stuff up, well these 2 liars can. This is pure fantasy. That whole Twitter account is a great read.


  • #209
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Social media is awful nowadays. It was excellent before the stupid took over.

    Michael Jackson never grew up. He liked to play kids games, that's why he had loads of children as friends. He wasn't a paedoophile.

    It's just retarded that people think he was.

    These guys are after money, they should be locked up for continuing to try to tarnish the name of an innocent dead man.

    Can you name me anyone else in history who never grew up and liked to play kids games. It's a strange excuse.


  • #210
    fritzelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,118 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    sligeach wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/JuliaBerkowitz1/status/1084389275318276096

    Gee, I wonder why this case was dismissed as well by a judge? You couldn't make this stuff up, well these 2 liars can. This is pure fantasy. That whole Twitter account is a great read.

    Oooh thats a great read


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  • #211
    fritzelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,118 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Can you name me anyone else in history who never grew up and liked to play kids games. It's a strange excuse.

    Most teachers, babysitters...
    Remember one time babysitting some kids and they were playing with lego - had forgotten how much fun it was. Another time grabbed my nephew and niece to go see Never Ending Story as I was about 20 and woulda felt weird seeing it by myself.
    Is it all that strange to enjoy being around kids, hell they make you feel younger


This discussion has been closed.
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