Civil servants - Politics

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Going by the letter of the circular, yes. In the real world, however, it's "don't ask, don't tell." The response from staff in... let's say one very large civil service HR area... to people asking "Can we canvass for Yes Equality during the Marriage Referendum?" was "No, you can't." A very large number of those same staff had Yes badges and postcards on their desks and a significant number were out leafletting too.

None of them would have been posing in social media photos after a canvas, though, or going on radio or TV.

There were a lot of experienced staff who were deeply unhappy with what you've described above during the last two referenda. Not that anyone had a big problem with their standpoints, but that they brought them into the office, which is quite unprofessional.

The Civil Service, and civil servants, must leave their political views at the door when they arrive for work every morning. You must be prepared to work for and support the Government of the day. It's one of the key foundations upon which the service is built on, and one which sadly isn't the case in many countries where political influence in the Civil Service is significant. You will find it very difficult to remain impartial if you're out canvassing for a political party.

The CO thing goes back to an era when COs sat in a typing pool and stayed there for the most part. Now COs can be senior managers within a short timeframe the way promotions have gone lately

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Obviously.



Work for? Yes, of course. "Support"? Eh, no.

That's a terrible attitude to take, no offence to you.

TaurenDruid wrote: »

I think this might come down to text being a terrible means of communication. And what it is you mean by "support."

That's possible.

By support I mean protect your Minister, and protect your Department. I also mean that if they, or the Government of the day, want to pursue something you disagree with personally, e.g. you don't agree with marriage equality but you've got to work on the legislation, then you've got to suck it up.

TaurenDruid wrote: »

We're in agreement, then. :-) I took all of that to be covered under "be prepared to work for."

Not really. If one of your staff told you they were 'prepared to work for you', you'd exactly be pleased with their attitude.

Anyway, we're getting off topic. Most people will tell the OP that this is a bad idea and they should strongly consider avoiding it, even if they can get away with doing so.

redmgar wrote: »

So would most politicians come from outside the civil service?
The bureaucracy must come as a huge shock to them!

The vast majority, if not all, I would say, come from other walks of life. An awful lot of them are teachers, and would be well used to it! But most would have been in or around politics most of their lives.

However, you can definitely see there is a skill to it - it is a profession. Some TDs, and some Ministers, are simply just brighter and more impressive than others - like most professions.

There are some TDs who get elected and think they can change the world overnight, and it's really not possible, you've got to work at it very hard.

You'll see Ministers who have loads of ideas that don't actually releate to their Department at all, and that can be frustrating for them. You'll also see some independent TDs who've become Ministers as their support is holding up a Government, and many of them just don't have the discipline for it at all.

Tpcl20 wrote: »

I was looking in to this recently because Hugh O'Connell had a piece in the independent recently.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/civil-servants-told-not-to-undermine-their-minister-or-policies-in-social-media-posts-40044836.html

It was brought in by no other than Charlie McCreevy.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/officials-criticise-ban-on-public-debate-1.1044947

A gagging order on civil servants seems dystopian in its nature and is extremely convenient for the government of the day, due to a huge cohort of people being unable to express their views or engage fully with political discourse.

It's shocking that no changes have been made. Where is FORSA in all of this? I looked up the representative mentioned in the article. Phyllis Behan sadly passed away last year. She had left the civil service some years ago to set up a counselling service. She seemed like a compassionate and kind person and it's a shame that she was not able to overturn this censorship of people on the basis of the job that they do.

The role of civil servants is to conscientiously serve the Government of the day, advise on policy and remain completely independent and impartial in doing so.

If civil servants didn't demonstrate reserve, or were seen to publicly undermine the Minister/Government in the media, then the Civil Service would lose an awful lot of the independence and impartiality.

People agree to these when they join, or get promoted above CO, so if you're not happy with that it mightn't be the best career for you.

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Fórsa aren't exactly the most militant of unions, and have different priorities.



Or, more likely, you keep your opinions mostly to yourself, and work away, in the knowledge that you're unlikely to ever end up working in a policy area that you're invested in. There are, of course, exceptions - I can think of one senior civil servant, for example, who has been completely open about their very old-fashioned, very very Roman Catholic outlook on life, on various social media platforms, and who was known to be working in an area where their opinions could influence policy. They're no longer working in that area - presumably transferred as a result.

Forsa are easily the most militant Civil Service union.

What about taking part in demonstrations such calling for an end to the violence in Gaza?