Is there a problem with these windows?

edanto · 05-03-2019 10:22AM #1

I'm buying a new house and we're in the snagging phase. My snagger said there is an issue with the external rubber seals in many of the windows, but the developer is saying the window company have inspected the windows and they are 'built to design'; essentially there is no issue.

I'd like to gather a few more views; are these small gaps an absolute show stopper that I should put my foot down about, or something minor that's typical in windows?

My snagger tells me that this gives him doubts about the build quality of the windows and together we had expected that the window company might offer to seal each corner with silicone. They haven't.

Options are:
- Insist on some remediation (full replacement? sealed with a bead of silicone?)
- Ask for some warranty from developer/window company
- Accept them as they are
- Go to mediation
- ? other ?

Each photo below is taken from inside; and attempts to show a gap in the corner of the external rubber seal between outermost glass pane and the frame.

chuck eastwood · 05-03-2019 04:15PM

edanto wrote: »

I'm buying a new house and we're in the snagging phase. My snagger said there is an issue with the external rubber seals in many of the windows, but the developer is saying the window company have inspected the windows and they are 'built to design'; essentially there is no issue.

I'd like to gather a few more views; are these small gaps an absolute show stopper that I should put my foot down about, or something minor that's typical in windows?

My snagger tells me that this gives him doubts about the build quality of the windows and together we had expected that the window company might offer to seal each corner with silicone. They haven't.

Options are:
- Insist on some remediation (full replacement? sealed with a bead of silicone?)
- Ask for some warranty from developer/window company
- Accept them as they are
- Go to mediation
- ? other ?

Each photo below is taken from inside; and attempts to show a gap in the corner of the external rubber seal between outermost glass pane and the frame.

This is poor quality control pure and simple. They should never have gotten out the door of the factory and even at that you builder should never have accepted them on delivery. The cut on each joint was probably done with a blunt blade bringing up more plastic burs than normal and the wrong weld temp causing discoloration. No way would I leave them in, bit of silicone should never have considered as a fix. Faulty product. simply put, is what you see what you paid for and ask the supplier is that the same ability as their brochure/showroom. I would ask for new units asap

edanto · 05-03-2019 05:19PM

Thanks; that's a very helpful reply. The bulk of your comments seem to refer to the internal appearance of the join/weld of the frame; and I take that on board.

Can I probe what you think about the gap in the external rubber?

Photo above is taken from inside the house and I'm referring to the gap in the external rubber.

To me, it seems like water could easily go down that gap, and I don't know what would happen that water, whether it would drain internally or externally. I was thinking that could be sealed with silicone if we aren't successful in getting them to replace all the windows. Your opinion is giving me lots of reasons to stand my ground, forget about silicone, and insist on full replacement. I'd need some muscle though - perhaps a mediator or independent window expert.

chuck eastwood · 05-03-2019 05:25PM

edanto wrote: »

Thanks; that's a very helpful reply. The bulk of your comments seem to refer to the internal appearance of the join/weld of the frame; and I take that on board.

Can I probe what you think about the gap in the external rubber?

Photo above is taken from inside the house and I'm referring to the gap in the external rubber.

To me, it seems like water could easily go down that gap, and I don't know what would happen that water, whether it would drain internally or externally. I was thinking that could be sealed with silicone if we aren't successful in getting them to replace all the windows. Your opinion is giving me lots of reasons to stand my ground, forget about silicone, and insist on full replacement. I'd need some muscle though - perhaps a mediator or independent window expert.

I just showed these photo to my dad who fitted and made windows for 35years. According to him the seal join should always be on the top of the window and should be butted tight, what you have only happens when the window maker hadnt a clue what he was at or used more than one peice of rubber seal. A blob of sealant is sometimes used to ensure an air/water tight seal but there should never be a gap like that. Substandard windows inside and out according to him

Charles Ingles · 05-03-2019 05:26PM

Yes seen this many times quite a common problem.
They never should have passed quality control.
They have used left handed rubber sealants easy fix but a involves two days work to correct.
Just a matter of switching over to right handed rubbers.
.

BryanF · 05-03-2019 07:49PM

(please don’t mention the window companies name thanks)

chuck eastwood · 05-03-2019 07:51PM

Charles Ingles wrote: »

Yes seen this many times quite a common problem.
They never should have passed quality control.
They have used left handed rubber sealants easy fix but a involves two days work to correct.
Just a matter of switching over to right handed rubbers.
.

What about the poor finish on the internal mitre where the plastic hasn't fused properly?

edanto · 05-03-2019 08:54PM

Very informative discussion guys thanks. I feel a lot better equipped to go back to the developer now. I suppose it's really me and the developer against the window company. Their rep may feel under pressure not to admit to any problem, since the house I'm buying is just one in a development of several and they wouldn't want to be on the hook for more repairs/replacements.

@Brian F; note the request not to name them. No issue. They are a surprisingly well known company in the market, I was expecting higher quality. I recognise the risk to boards if the company were named on the thread so I'll stay well clear of any hints about them.

I think I'll take a trip to their showroom and inspect the windows there; safe in the assumption they won't have any of these issues.

My guess is we'll have to engage with mediation/arbitration (one of those is the mechanism in the contract for snag disputes). If anyone knows of a mediator with specific window expertise; I'd be grateful of a PM with contact details.

edanto · 07-03-2019 04:35PM

Thanks for the idea to go to the showroom, chuck eastwood. I found the same type of window in the showroom and, as you predicted, the showroom frames do not have this problem. They're great quality.

We'll have to see how discussions between the developer and the window supplier go, but thanks again to each of ye for chipping in with the advice as it's helped me understand what's gone wrong here and the quality we should expect.

External Seals at Showroom

External Seals at New House

Internal Mitre Joins at Showroom

Internal Mitre Joins at New House

Lumen · 07-03-2019 10:56PM

Those showroom mitre joints look like they've been done with an axe.

edanto · 05-08-2019 01:31PM

By way of an update, this was fully resolved.

I presented it to the developer as a problem between them and their window supplier, there was a bit of push back and it delayed the closing about a month but ultimately it was all repaired (had to get them back a second time because they missed one window on the second floor).

Thanks a million to everyone for the advice.

Metric Tensor · 06-08-2019 10:57AM

Thanks for the update - love to hear updates.

Did they just repair the seals?

I can't see any "repair" possible for the poor quality mitre joint - was that commented upon or ignored?

Calahonda52 · 06-08-2019 11:15AM

edanto wrote: »

By way of an update, this was fully resolved.

I presented it to the developer as a problem between them and their window supplier, there was a bit of push back and it delayed the closing about a month but ultimately it was all repaired (had to get them back a second time because they missed one window on the second floor).

Thanks a million to everyone for the advice.

lets have some picture?

Is there a problem with these windows?

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