Church-run hospitals told to ditch holy symbols

seamus wrote: »

Patient outcomes are influenced by (amongst other things), the comfort of the surroundings, and their perceived competence of the hospital treating them.

Thus patients recover better at home than in a hospital, better in a modern hospital than in a old run-down building, and better in an old run-down building than in a medical tent in a warzone.

It doesn't really matter how competent your staff are, or how modern your equipment is - if your hospital looks like a timewarp back to the 1970s, you will have poorer patient outcomes than a modern hospital.

Portiuncla is a good example of a timewarp hospital. When you're standing inside of it, you'd think you were in a church building that was converted to a hospital. There's a 4-foot Mary statue with all those offering candles at the front door. Archaic stuff.

Great staff, great care. But the building itself and the decor inspires no confidence.

I don't see any issue with patients requesting that religious iconography be removed.

That's quite a few leaps of the imagination there!

Actual comfort is one thing, but trying to tie that to décor? "oh I'm sorry, your father died because we forgot to paint the walls a different colour"

Ridiculous.

As per usual, I'm sure this is a case of internet-dwelling freaks looking for a reason to exist, in this case complaining about the decorations in a hospital that THEY are not in. Complaining on behalf of others (its all about themselves, really), the usual shyte.

The Catholic church should should just close up shop, close all the schools, hospitals etc and then sell it to the highest bidder. Im sure the mongo's and complainers running the country will buy it (fat chance), and then do a better job of providing facility (laughable).

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

So when you said you wanted separation of Church and State, you're fine with religious places of worship being built and maintained, and having a visible presence in state-funded hospitals?

Well they cannot really be ignored, that was my point. You don't have to enter a place of worship to notice the symbolism, the icons. They are everywhere.

What do you suggest in those cases, that they should grow vines?


Of course the numbers matter when it comes to patient opinions. It's as simple as trying to find a balance between providing comfort to (perhaps) a majority, whilst discommoding the fewest amount of patients.

It's worth bearing in mind that there's a big difference between state-funded and state-owned. The State doesn't own many of the hospitals in question, they have agreed to provide funding for its operations, but not to acquire the property. Personally, I and many others object to that, of course. But it is not the property of the State, after all.

Don't do multiquote so this is brief.

I said I have no issue with a designated room where people can find solace - possibly by praying to their god or gods - I also suggested that a nice garden would probably be more of more benefit.
There is a world of difference between a discrete designated room and a stairwell full of portraits of Sr Mary Perpetua of the Small Mouth, Bishop Thunderer, etc and statutes of Mary, Bridget, Holy St Joseph and scenes of the favourite Roman form of execution for treason in alcoves throughout the place.

Yes, they can be ignored. I do it everyday.

No. It's not about balance. It's about every citizen having an equal right to their beliefs or lack of them when accessing medical services. Having religious iconography from one religion is not balance - it is endorsing on the tax payers's cent.

I am well aware of the difference. That doesn't mean the State cannot attach terms and conditions to funds - it already does in fact.
It would also help if the State didn't pay for hospitals and then allow religious orders to manage them.

beejee wrote: »

That's quite a few leaps of the imagination there!

Actual comfort is one thing, but trying to tie that to décor? "oh I'm sorry, your father died because we forgot to paint the walls a different colour"

Ridiculous.

As per usual, I'm sure this is a case of internet-dwelling freaks looking for a reason to exist, in this case complaining about the decorations in a hospital that THEY are not in. Complaining on behalf of others (its all about themselves, really), the usual shyte.

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6143402/





Records on recovery after cholecystectomy of patients in a suburban Pennsylvania hospital between 1972 and 1981 were examined to determine whether assignment to a room with a window view of a natural setting might have restorative influences. Twenty-three surgical patients assigned to rooms with windows looking out on a natural scene had shorter postoperative hospital stays, received fewer negative evaluative comments in nurses' notes, and took fewer potent analgesics than 23 matched patients in similar rooms with windows facing a brick building wall.


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gctest50 wrote: »

He showed, using clinical data, that patients with tree views had “shorter postoperative hospital stays, fewer negative evaluative comments from nurses, took fewer moderate-to-strong analgesic doses, and had slightly lower scores for minor postsurgical complications.”

"I'm sorry, your father died because the angle of his window precluded the view of a tree, whereas Mary in the opposite bed could see a few branches so shes fine."

Such nit-picking nonsense in order to hold up some argument against religion. The only revelation (it isn't) is that someone gets paid to conduct such trivial research, while there aren't even enough physical beds for people in this country. Nonsense.

When we have perfectly functioning health systems get back to me about the views patients have to endure.

beejee wrote: »

"I'm sorry, your father died because the angle of his window precluded the view of a tree, whereas Mary in the opposite bed could see a few branches so shes fine."

Such nit-picking nonsense in order to hold up some argument against religion. The only revelation (it isn't) is that someone gets paid to conduct such trivial research, while there aren't even enough physical beds for people in this country. Nonsense.

When we have perfectly functioning health systems get back to me about the views patients have to endure.

So you dont think a functioning health system should do what it can to improve patient outcomes? Very odd to call improving patient outcomes "Nit picking"

gctest50 wrote: »

Which part of shorter post operative stays do you not understand ?





Records on recovery after cholecystectomy of patients in a suburban Pennsylvania hospital between 1972 and 1981 were examined to determine whether assignment to a room with a window view of a natural setting might have restorative influences. Twenty-three surgical patients assigned to rooms with windows looking out on a natural scene had shorter postoperative hospital stays, received fewer negative evaluative comments in nurses' notes, and took fewer potent analgesics than 23 matched patients in similar rooms with windows facing a brick building wall.

On the scale of importance, its negligible nonsense. Negligible nonsense being presented in such a way as to support an argument against religious symbols...what a stretch.

Heres a study conducted by useless phd student number 5003486342

"The perceived outcomes of wearing warmer socks while impaled on a spike are better than wearing less well-insulated socks".

As the poster stated, "the bleedin' obvious"

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I don’t think it could necessarily be predicted that window-adjacent people would need less painkillers and need to stay in hospital for a shorter postoperative period without a study really. The fewer negative comments part is probably the only thing you’d surmise using common sense.

sitting next to a window with a nice view will release endorphins so i would expect less pain medication to be required.

BattleCorp wrote: »

Would those who object to crosses, statues and other religious paraphernalia object to receiving lifesaving treatment from a muslim doctor wearing a hijab?

not sure why you think that comparison is in any way valid.

SoundsRight wrote: »

Because the government wants to remove religious symbols, regardless of whether they're hygenic or not.

Regarding the spread of infection, there's no link to the distribution of Communion. It's an important role that many patients appreciate greatly. The Eucharistic ministers are probably more at risk of catching something off the likes of you than vice versa. It's the patient visiting times that you should really be more concerned about.

I'm not saying the distribution of communion is linked to the spread of infection. It's the fact that these people are going from room to room without obeying the infection control protocols when giving out communion.
The fact I had to spell that out for you really shows your ignorance & stupidity on the matter.

As for patient visiting hours - I've never had a family member/friend of another patient enter my room - the majority of people who come to visit others in hospital will have the manners to stay out of other patients rooms.
Anyone who comes to visit me will obey the infection controls procedures.

Regarding your other comment - that probably sums you up as a person.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How about this radical idea

How about this radical idea : the church pays the compensation it should be paying

beejee wrote: »

That's just it, its all moaning until reality hits home.

If you want to see the efficiency of state run healthcare all one needs do is look at the new childrens hospital.

The government and opposition parties wouldn't dare to encroach too much on religious facilities, not because of some reverence, but because they know this country cant run a bath.

All these individuals complaining about religious symbols and trying to tie the ropiest "research" into their arguments are simply people with too much time on their hands. They have their internet fingers stuck in everything these days, from religion to fashion. They'll be complaining about trivial shyte till theyre dead :P

you do realise that all the staff in hospitals are HSE staff? that the churchs involvement in day to day running is somewhere around 0%?