Encouraging older people to move to retirement home type villages

iguana · 26-02-2019 12:01PM

I used to live near a retirement community in north London and it looked like a really decent type of place to live. It was like half a square of terraced houses built around a private park area with a hall in centre. Each house was private with it's own tiny front garden and small back garden (still a decent amount of private outside space for London). The front park was well maintained and had seating areas, bowls green, flower gardens, etc. The central hall had activities every day and night. Bingo/dances/art/medical checks from community nurses/flu shot clinics/mobile library/movie nights/etc. If you weren't very mobile you could still have a full busy life in your community. But you were still well placed to enjoy life outside the immediate community too. The 'village' was still in the centre of the locality so residents could still go walk to the shops, go to the nearby park, main library, football, other activities. (Not the best part of London though, so they might have preferred not to.) The bus stopped right outside and the nearest train station was at the end of the road and was 20 minutes to the City or in the other direction a huge nature park in Cheshunt.

Depending on my circumstances when I get older I think it could be a good way to live. I have one child so if he was living abroad and I didn't have much family around, having a busy social life and a healthcare safety net literally on my doorstep seems like a positive thing. But it would have to be fairly centrally located and allow for pretty much completely independent living. I want to be able to go where ever I want for as long as I can. Self-driving cars will probably help with that by then. But I definitely don't want to find myself trapped in a 'village' in the middle of nowhere, beholden to the retirement community for my social life. There are quite a few 'villages' like that around and I think that they must feel very limiting to the residents and I'm not sure the compensations of the 'village' make up for the loss of their independent access to their urban/suburban community.

KKGirlatheart · 26-02-2019 12:08PM

I know they have retirement villages in the UK and they are hugely popular....we have a family friend on a waiting list to go to one near Birmingham.
The reality is families are getting smaller so long term who will support/take care of our ageing population? I think it's a great option to have - give people the option of independent living with a support network.

I grew up in rural Ireland and have seen so many neighbours who have no family, who are unable to drive due to age/health, literally fade away and have no real contact or support from day to day....it's so lonely and whilst retirement villages won't suit everyone but I think there would be a huge amount of people who would like them!

Mrs OBumble · 26-02-2019 12:11PM

Uriel. wrote: »

Retirement villages are an appalling idea and I can't imagine many Irish people would be positive about the idea. We really don't want to ship our older people off to gated villages and fenced in. Sounds a but Nazi like.

What we need to do is build suitable housing that is adaptable for a range of needs within existing communities. These housing developments could offer access to care, security and support and be open to anyone whether they require care or not. They should also be connected with the community. Ultimately they should be a housing estate, apartment complex, designed specifically for the needs of an Ageing cohort. Support is there if you need it, if you don't, you just go about your day as you've always done before, safe in the knowledge that support or security will be available to you when u need it.

What you describe in the 2nd paragraph is exactly what a retirement village is!

Jurgen Klopp · 26-02-2019 01:08PM

As someone working in teh healthcare sector believe me it's not about getting larger houses available for families or even helping older people, it's all to save a few euro for teh government coffers

They started pushing "aging in the home" few years back cause they were getting crippled with nursing home charges and even the people that had to give over their house in the fair deal scheme meant the HSE were and still are left with properties only fit to be used as cow sheds so no chance of resale to recoup costs

Now they are paying through the hoop to private care companies even tho the excellent men and women carers get feck themselves where as the owners cream it. Then you need to consider the amount of fuel costs being paid to both teh care companies and to nurses who make regular calls

So now the latest fad, is retirement communities where they make off they'll save on care staff and nurse costs by having em all into together

Now if each town or village had a couple dozen of these homes in them for locals it would actually be a good idea, but what I fear is tho in typical fashion they will make estates of 1 bed homes about 20/30/40 miles away with bollox all services for the residents basically leaving them to rot

Uriel. · 26-02-2019 09:20PM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What you describe in the 2nd paragraph is exactly what a retirement village is!

No, it isn't. Retirement villages in the most part are gated communities. What I'm talking about is housing for people of any age, that is life time adaptable and specifically can cater for people to age in place. It's not a place to go at 90, rather it is a place to. Think about downsizing to when family have moved out etc.

Most importantly they are infrastructure right in existing communities where people can opt to live in but not move out of the community they grew up in or reared kids in.

This is the ideal approach and not off to the farm in Longford where everyone knows "that's where we send old people, when the time is right"

Ask any middle aged Irish person what they think a retirement village is, and whther they'd consider it an option and it won't be met with positivity. Adaptable housing with care service options and integration in existing communities have a different reaction altogether.

kneemos · 26-02-2019 09:42PM

Uriel. wrote: »

No, it isn't. Retirement villages in the most part are gated communities. What I'm talking about is housing for people of any age, that is life time adaptable and specifically can cater for people to age in place. It's not a place to go at 90, rather it is a place to. Think about downsizing to when family have moved out etc.

Most importantly they are infrastructure right in existing communities where people can opt to live in but not move out of the community they grew up in or reared kids in.

This is the ideal approach and not off to the farm in Longford where everyone knows "that's where we send old people, when the time is right"

Ask any middle aged Irish person what they think a retirement village is, and whther they'd consider it an option and it won't be met with positivity. Adaptable housing with care service options and integration in existing communities have a different reaction altogether.

Retirement villages are in communities. Just because they're gated doesn't mean they're locked in.
They go for drives,do the shopping,go to mass,visit their friends etc,just like they do living at home.

goat2 · 26-02-2019 09:49PM

Calhoun wrote: »

Isn't this for council houses ? Or is this another scheme announced ? I would think they have very little powers to do this in the private world.

As for council stock, it's not an overly bad idea to review the housing assignments based on the need.

I spent the first 25 yrs of married life paying a huge mortgage, raising family, and preparing for the day I would have the ability to enjoy the fruits of my labour, now my kids are reared and have bought their own homes, I have a lovely peaceful life, in my full health and am satisfied with my lot, my house is my home, not to be given to someone else,

Alrigghtythen · 26-02-2019 09:50PM

Once retirement villages are built in each town, I think it's a great idea.

Old people stay within their community and with services on their doorstep.

Big houses are freed up.

WoollyRedHat · 26-02-2019 09:51PM

Completely opposed to this idea. If the person is still mobile and active they are still of use to society. Bring them to the gulag.

Spanish Eyes · 26-02-2019 09:51PM

I was googling retirement villages in Ireland earlier. They all seem to be in rural areas, not near transport links or a village or town. I didn't spend too long looking as being a Dub there is not a chance in hell that I would move to the country in my dotage. But given land prices in Dublin it is no surprise to me that most of the seniors developments are rural.

I suppose it's what you are used to. I have everything on my doorstep here, and would die within a week if I was trapped in a development that might not allow me to be as independent as I would like. I'm talking about not being able to drive anymore, it happens, then what do you do?

Anyway, I think others have it right, there should be a mix of accommodation options available, (what a pipe dream that is!), You know, larger houses for families, two beds for a couple, one bed for a singleton/widowed/senior. Better not to corrall people just because of their age I think, although it does seem to suit some people.

Each to their own and all that.

Auntie Semite · 26-02-2019 10:01PM

I think its a good idea but it needs to go further.

I'm in my late 30's and have plenty of professional single childless female friends with 3-4 bedroom houses, its probably too late for them to have children so they too should be offered incentives to downsize

What does a childless middle aged Woman need all those extra rooms for?

Maybe we should build housing estates and communities for Middle Aged childless Women, one bed apartments with maybe a small office/study sounds reasonable
Perhaps beginning at age 35 single childless Women can take an annual fertility test and once its proven they are infertile or Menopause has begun then the financial incentives can be activated
They can present their Infertility Cert to the local council and begin the process of downsizing to the Single Childless Woman apartment/community

I don't think Men should be included as a Man can have a child at almost any age so they would possibly need the large house and it would be unfair for a man to benefit from this scheme and then a few years later at age 45 have their first child and thus 'scam' the system

The great thing about this potential scheme is that there is a greater amount of single childless Women than there ever has been and this number is predicted to increase exponentially therefore there will always be a cache of decent houses available as these Women downsize to their Villages of single childless Women

wobatkicker23 · 26-02-2019 10:10PM

A lot of new research from the states points to these retirement villages fostering an anti-social element. Elderly people who had no previous brushes with the law are something like 8 times more likely to commit violent crime after living in a retirement village for more than six months. Something to do with mob mentality and taking 'revenge' on a society that they feel looks down upon them.

Really interesting stuff, Ill try and dig up the academic articles on it.

goat2 · 26-02-2019 10:14PM

wobatkicker23 wrote: »

A lot of new research from the states points to these retirement villages fostering an anti-social element. Elderly people who had no previous brushes with the law are something like 8 times more likely to commit violent crime after living in a retirement village for more than six months. Something to do with mob mentality and taking 'revenge' on a society that they feel looks down upon them.

Really interesting stuff, Ill try and dig up the academic articles on it.

Yes, sounds to me like segregation, away from normal society, family and friends, just waiting to snuff it

skooterblue2 · 26-02-2019 10:20PM

biko wrote: »

The people that built this land and raised us are now told they're not needed any more and should feck off to some out of the way retirement village.
Maybe it's "progressive" but it feels like kicking them when they're down.

If you like this post the next two referenda will be Euthanasia and lowering the voting age to 16.

26-02-2019 10:45PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Old people need to move to be managed for social and health reasons.

Why? With all the tech we have available now, why do people have to move to be managed?

I wonder if the whole concept of retirement villages is outdated. Do we really need physical proximity of housing units to provide proper care? With decent eHealth facilities, surely people can stay in their own homes for longer.

This project is looking at how to split traditional dwellings into two units, so that the person can stay in their own home, and make part of it available as a separate unit.

https://twitter.com/AvaHousing

donkeykong5 · 26-02-2019 10:50PM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Corey Quick Rose wrote: »

I saw an article in the paper yesterday where the Govt are proposing that older people be offered tax incentives to move into retirement home type villages in order to free up family size houses for younger couples.

Personally I think it's an awful idea. Older people are part of the community, have a lot to offer and in many cases frequently have family, including grandchildren coming to stay and still need a family sized house - which they have paid for over many years.

Just wondering what others think.

They need a spare bedroom for visitors. But not three spare bedrooms. Civilised retirement village homes are two-bedroom for this reason.

Also most family sized homes are two story and have the only shower upstairs. So when granny cannot manage the stairs anymore she ends up sponge-bathing for years. Far better that she moves to an elder-friendly location while she's still fully mobile and can get to know the place well.

Stair lift ?

cnocbui · 26-02-2019 11:06PM

amcalester wrote: »

Whats wrong with giving people an option to downsize? Not all of them need family homes and no one is being forced to do anything.

This will suit some people and won't suit others.

Personally I'd be in favour of my parents downsizing and spending whatever money they pocket in the process rather than "leaving something for the kids".

Because governments don't do options. They coerce and punish. 'We'll give people the option to move to clean diesel powered vehicles - that sounds good - make a note to increase the vehicle import duty - I mean VRT, by 80% on petrol vehicles and increase the tax on petrol by 30% - that should be enough options.'

weldoninhio · 27-02-2019 12:08PM

goat2 wrote: »

I spent the first 25 yrs of married life paying a huge mortgage, raising family, and preparing for the day I would have the ability to enjoy the fruits of my labour, now my kids are reared and have bought their own homes, I have a lovely peaceful life, in my full health and am satisfied with my lot, my house is my home, not to be given to someone else,

Jaysus, after all that hard work isn't it lucky that the idea of retirement villages is only for people that want to live in them. No one will be forced into them. :rolleyes:

27-02-2019 12:13PM

We spend our whole time working, we get into fervent debates about property and how to save and get a house, and now it feels like as soon as you own the house you're to be shipped off to a camp because you're deemed useless.
No you're grand thanks. If it is a tax incentive and stays that way with no social pressure, then ok.

suicide_circus · 27-02-2019 12:33PM

we're not having enough children and we're living too long

buried · 27-02-2019 12:38PM

If this is such a good idea how many of our retired politicians are getting involved in this scheme?
They got real big gaffs too. Hand em over.

suicide_circus · 27-02-2019 12:41PM

buried wrote: »

If this is such a good idea how many of our retired politicians are getting involved in this scheme?
They got real big gaffs too. Hand em over.

this is only for the plebs, silly

iguana · 27-02-2019 12:46PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I was googling retirement villages in Ireland earlier. They all seem to be in rural areas, not near transport links or a village or town. I didn't spend too long looking as being a Dub there is not a chance in hell that I would move to the country in my dotage. But given land prices in Dublin it is no surprise to me that most of the seniors developments are rural.

I suppose it's what you are used to. I have everything on my doorstep here, and would die within a week if I was trapped in a development that might not allow me to be as independent as I would like. I'm talking about not being able to drive anymore, it happens, then what do you do?

I live in Limerick so would consider this one. But I think it's one of very few in the country that isn't in the arśe end of nowhere. It's not actually too far from my house, so I'd still be roughly in my own community. Though I think I'd be tempted to rent my own house out and rent in the 'village' so maybe not the best option for freeing up a house for sale. It's not what I hope for in my old age but it's not bad to have as an option.

http://www.parkcastletroy.com/about-the-park.php

In terms of driving, though the future mightn't be that bad. 25-30 years from now there is a pretty reasonable chance that self-drive cars will be at least common enough to be an option.

Uriel. · 27-02-2019 12:55PM

The policy statement is here for anyone interested diving further into the detail

https://health.gov.ie/blog/publications/housing-options-for-our-ageing-population-policy-statement/

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 27-02-2019 01:33PM

If the government are looking at ways to ensure older people who are becoming less capable of living alone, but are still mentally alert and active, have options rather than going into an 'old people's home' where most of the residents are in various stages of dementia then that's a good thing.

If they are hoping to coerce older people to move out of their family sized home, or to make it financially difficult to remain there through the introduction of punitive taxes, or to just make it less socially acceptable for an elderly person on their own to 'hog' a large house, then that's not a good thing.

Uriel. · 27-02-2019 03:51PM

Corey Quick Rose wrote: »

If the government are looking at ways to ensure older people who are becoming less capable of living alone, but are still mentally alert and active, have options rather than going into an 'old people's home' where most of the residents are in various stages of dementia then that's a good thing.

If they are hoping to coerce older people to move out of their family sized home, or to make it financially difficult to remain there through the introduction of punitive taxes, or to just make it less socially acceptable for an elderly person on their own to 'hog' a large house, then that's not a good thing.

Read the policy statement and come to a conclusion on what the government is aiming to do.

Fiftyfilthy · 27-02-2019 04:02PM

The way society is heading with more and more lazy slobs with no desire to work or education will be queuing up for their forever retirement home by the time they are 42

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 27-02-2019 04:03PM

Uriel. wrote: »

Read the policy statement and come to a conclusion on what the government is aiming to do.

Policy statements and what actually happens aren't always one and the same. Hopefully this is a first step towards providing more choice and flexibility for elderly people who are unable to remain in a large family home but do not need full time care.

Hopefully it also won't become the first step in creating a 'norm' where older people remaining in large houses is seen as selfish or unacceptable or where they are housed in villages or hubs that are separate from mainstream community life.

skooterblue2 · 27-02-2019 05:15PM

buried wrote: »

If this is such a good idea how many of our retired politicians are getting involved in this scheme?
They got real big gaffs too. Hand em over.

I hope you are not suggest move that poor ex-auctioneer Phil Hogan there from his period estate in Killkenny to one of these places once his labour as an MEP is done? How would a man of that stature cope?

skooterblue2 · 27-02-2019 05:17PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

we're not having enough children and we're living too long

What we need is free cigarettes to keep people young and healthy. Like the Romans paying part of the wages in salt

Encouraging older people to move to retirement home type villages

Comments