Encouraging older people to move to retirement home type villages

NIMAN · 26-02-2019 10:08AM

Personally I think its a very good idea, but the problem is that a lot of people have emotional connections to property that they find hard to break.

I know my own widowed mother would probably enjoy such a village, but the big house she's living in on her own now is the one that she and her late husband bought as a young married couple back in 1970, and then went on to raise a family in.

Its just bricks and mortar to some, but to many its much more than that, and selling it on is sometimes seen a sad/bad/wrong thing to do.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 26-02-2019 10:08AM

kneemos wrote: »

They're still part of the community. Retirement villages aren't concentration camps.

They're not living in a mixed community. They're living in a community composed entirely of elderly people. That's not ideal for many older people, or for general community life.

jasper100 · 26-02-2019 10:09AM

_Brian wrote: »

My mum is 75, independent, drives her car daily and lives in a rural area.

She lives in the family home, 4 bed house she and my dad renovated in the 1990’s.

Most of the family live within 2 miles and call few times a week, her sister, also a widow lives 3 miles away and the visit each other twice a week.

Closest retirement village is 30 miles away. She would have a miserable time there, hate every minute. She’s much better where she is being visited by friends and family daily, she picks up grandchildren from school 5 days a week which as she says earns her petrol money and makes her feel useful and connected to them.

That doesnt gloss over the fact that she is squatting in a 4 bed house while a young family of 4 are forced to live in a hotel room because of her selfish actions.

Get her moved on.

Uriel. · 26-02-2019 10:10AM

Retirement villages are an appalling idea and I can't imagine many Irish people would be positive about the idea. We really don't want to ship our older people off to gated villages and fenced in. Sounds a but Nazi like.

What we need to do is build suitable housing that is adaptable for a range of needs within existing communities. These housing developments could offer access to care, security and support and be open to anyone whether they require care or not. They should also be connected with the community. Ultimately they should be a housing estate, apartment complex, designed specifically for the needs of an Ageing cohort. Support is there if you need it, if you don't, you just go about your day as you've always done before, safe in the knowledge that support or security will be available to you when u need it.

NIMAN · 26-02-2019 10:11AM

jasper100 wrote: »

That doesnt gloss over the fact that she is squatting in a 4 bed house while a young family of 4 are forced to live in a hotel room because of her selfish actions.

Get her moved on.

I take it that this is a jokey reply.

kneemos · 26-02-2019 10:12AM

Corey Quick Rose wrote: »

They're not living in a mixed community. They're living in a community composed entirely of elderly people. That's not ideal for many older people, or for general community life.

Better quality of life if they're engaging with their peers and joining in with activities.

26-02-2019 10:12AM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

They need a spare bedroom for visitors. But not three spare bedrooms.

How exactly are you assessing what an elderly person needs?
How would you like it if others decided what you “need”?

I am not old but I own a 4 bedroom house which will have no mortgage in a few years. Currently the 3 larger bedrooms are occupied and the “box room” is for storage, however I expect this to change when the kids flee the nest. I intend on staying in my home for the rest of my days. I have paid for it with blood sweat and tears. Anyone that attempts to take this away from me will be disappointed. I am part of a community, close to friends and family. I may also opt to rent out some rooms to supplement my meager private sector pension if I deem it necessary. I have no issues with tax incentives being offered to those that choose to downsize but if a vacant bedroom tax is introduced I will simply convert all empty bedrooms into one large bedroom.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 26-02-2019 10:16AM

kneemos wrote: »

Better quality of life if they're engaging with their peers and joining in with activities.

But a lot of people do that in their existing communities - playing bridge, doing voluntary work, helping out in the church etc. while staying in an area where they know their neighbours and feel generally a part of normal everyday life, seeing kids heading down the road to school, hearing toddlers out playing in their garden, getting to know middle aged and young couples moving into the area and so on.

Lillyfae · 26-02-2019 10:16AM

kneemos wrote: »

They're still part of the community. Retirement villages aren't concentration camps.

Exactly, where I am there are blocks of apartments, in the community, earmarked for people who are retired- differing levels of support for people at different stages. My neighbours just moved to one and I still meet them in the gym where she plays tennis while he's been known to do 2 - 3 sessions of spinning in a row :eek:. Sometimes I take my little one swimming with their grandson. Lovely!

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 26-02-2019 10:18AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Exactly, where I am there are blocks of apartments, in the community, earmarked for people who are retired- differing levels of support for people at different stages. My neighbours just moved to one and I still meet them in the gym where she plays tennis while he's been known to do 2 - 3 sessions of spinning in a row :eek:. Sometimes I take my little one swimming with their grandson. Lovely!

That sounds like a lovely idea, because the elderly people who choose to move into those apartments are remaining within a normal mixed community.

freshpopcorn · 26-02-2019 10:22AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Exactly, where I am there are blocks of apartments, in the community, earmarked for people who are retired- differing levels of support for people at different stages. My neighbours just moved to one and I still meet them in the gym where she plays tennis while he's been known to do 2 - 3 sessions of spinning in a row :eek:. Sometimes I take my little one swimming with their grandson. Lovely!

All these thing can be lovely once they are done correctly. Similar to the one you mentioned.
My only bug bear with is that nobody should be pushed into doing it.
That's another thread though on how some people threat the elderly.

Drumpot · 26-02-2019 10:22AM

2011 wrote: »

How exactly are you assessing what an elderly person needs?
How would you like it if others decided what you “need”?

I am not old but I own a 4 bedroom house which will have no mortgage in a few years. Currently the 3 larger bedrooms are occupied and the “box room” is for storage, however I expect this to change when the kids flee the nest. I intend on staying in my home for the rest of my days. I have paid for it with blood sweat and tears. Anyone that attempts to take this away from me will be disappointed. I am part of a community, close to friends and family. I may also opt to rent out some rooms to supplement my meager private sector pension if I deem it necessary. I have no issues with tax incentives being offered to those that choose to downsize but if a vacant bedroom tax is introduced I will simply convert all empty bedrooms into one large bedroom.

I think you should always be encouraged and supported for whatever you decide to do.

The self absorbed instinct of each generation never ceases to amaze me. “Somebody else should fix the problems of today, it’s not my fault, here let’s target that demographic that has no impact on me”..... Then through osmosis that targeted demographic becomes the enemy/barrier of “progressive change”.

Like I said, I think older villages are good ideas and could have some very good traits but as a society we are shockingly poor at self reflection and taking balanced approach’s to these things.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 26-02-2019 10:25AM

I think a better option would be to build suitable houses and apartments for elderly people who wish to downsize but to remain in their existing communities, rather than setting up separate 'villages' composed of one demographic only. That's not really a community.

Ush1 · 26-02-2019 10:28AM

I'm in my thirties so a long way off but the thoughts of being surrounded by loads of other old people when I'm older sounds grim as f*ck.

amcalester · 26-02-2019 10:30AM

Corey Quick Rose wrote: »

I think a better option would be to build suitable houses and apartments for elderly people who wish to downsize but to remain in their existing communities, rather than setting up separate 'villages' composed of one demographic only. That's not really a community.

I think the plan includes both, specific communities and also housing for the elderly within new developments.

When I lived in Canada I did a bit of in (not for) a few of these retirement villages and there was way more of a sense of community within them than most places I've lived.

There'll be pros and cons to anything but people acting like Granny Teresa is going to be forced out of her home are being more than a bit ridiculous.

26-02-2019 10:31AM

I can't help but get the feeling that a lot of enthusiasts for this idea are in the market for a three or four-bed semi in the suburbs. Too cynical?

I do see the attraction of a retirement home, but only if the idea is instigated by the senior person themselves or if they are not in a position to take care of themselves with some home-help (eg. suffering from a form of dementia).

It's very easy to say "Oh that sounds lovely Gran, all thee people you'll meet!"; when in fact, if you've ever been to a care home, a lot of the people there are in advanced stages of neurological and other illnesses; it can be really depressing to a thirty-year-old, never mind an eighty-year-old person.

Both of my paternal Grandparents, one of whom had dementia, lived out their days on the farm they loved and worked on. Not in some quasi hospital that smelled of bleach and served meals in aluminum bowls. I'd rather end it all than end up in some kind of care-home for people that nobody else can, or will, take care of.

Lillyfae · 26-02-2019 10:31AM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

All these thing can be lovely once they are done correctly. Similar to the one you mentioned.
My only bug bear with is that nobody should be pushed into doing it.
That's another thread though on how some people threat the elderly.

Nobody is forcing them! They got older, decided they couldn't be arsed cleaning a 2 up 2 down anymore so they sold it and bought an apartment with service available if wanted- gated parking, nursing, reception etc. The option was there and they took it, what's more they were delighted with the young couple that bought their old house- they'd raised a family there and were happy that another family would grow up there.

ollkiller · 26-02-2019 10:33AM

Where i work in Cork there is about 60 houses, small two bed units nearby only for tenants who are older. There really is a sense of community and you see them everyday conversing with each other. So it can be a really good idea if implemented correctly.

Graham · 26-02-2019 10:36AM

Corey Quick Rose wrote: »

I think a better option would be to build suitable houses and apartments for elderly people who wish to downsize but to remain in their existing communities, rather than setting up separate 'villages' composed of one demographic only.

I understand that is part of the proposals.

For any such incentives to be a success there has to be appropriate accommodation that appeals to people in the areas they actually want to live.

I expect we'll see new developments with a mandatory percentage of accommodation suitable for downsizers.

26-02-2019 10:38AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Nobody is forcing them! They got older, decided they couldn't be arsed cleaning a 2 up 2 down anymore so they sold it and bought an apartment with service available if wanted- gated parking, nursing, reception etc. The option was there and they took it, what's more they were delighted with the young couple that bought their old house- they'd raised a family there and were happy that another family would grow up there.

That's great, but just look at the furore about the HSE's Fair Deal scheme, where the sale of a person's home is used to pay for their care.

Many families are very angry about this, and come up with schemes of their own to evade it, which suggests to me that putting a person into care is also an opportunity for an early inheritance.

freshpopcorn · 26-02-2019 10:38AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Nobody is forcing them! They got older, decided they couldn't be arsed cleaning a 2 up 2 down anymore so they sold it and bought an apartment with service available if wanted- gated parking, nursing, reception etc. The option was there and they took it, what's more they were delighted with the young couple that bought their old house- they'd raised a family there and were happy that another family would grow up there.

Yes once forcing them or making them feel guilty I said I've no issue.

wakka12 · 26-02-2019 10:47AM

Corey Quick Rose wrote: »

But that's not the reality for lots of elderly people. Many of them know their neighbours, are involved in community activities, have family and friends living nearby and don't want to move or be forced to through bedroom taxes etc.

Also, surely communities benefit by being composed of people of all ages?

Thats not true at all, a huge amount of the elderly population are suffering in abject loneliness

I dont see the big issue, because as you said all they can do is 'encourage', its not like they are taking the houses from the elderly people, elderly people have the choice to stay or move to the retirement village, whatever makes them happier

looksee · 26-02-2019 10:50AM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

People who don’t want to move will not move. People who do will move.

Honestly FVonP is one of the few people talking sense.

SOME older people find the empty family house a responsibility - my mum did and opted to live in sheltered housing because keeping track of repairs and going upstairs became too much - and she was a very independent individual.

SOME - like her friend continued to live alone in the family home till well into her 90s as she was very attached to it.

Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. If a person has a family that would 'force' them out of their home for benefit then they will find some other way of getting their hands on the money.

I think most people would be very surprised how expensive it is to 'downsize'. Sheltered housing with services could easily cost as much as a decent house in most towns. If you happen to own a 3 story georgian house in Dublin then you might make a few bob - though a sheltered house in Dublin is going to cost more than one down the country. So there isn't going to be a huge pool of available money floating around.

Its just one option, and one that would make sense in the current housing climate, but it is not something that is being forced on this mass of 'elderly people' that appear to be seen as a grouping that needs to be organised and all think the same. I am one of them and my situation is far from conventional at the moment, so please don't make assumptions about me.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 26-02-2019 10:57AM

looksee wrote: »

Honestly FVonP is one of the few people talking sense.

SOME older people find the empty family house a responsibility - my mum did and opted to live in sheltered housing because keeping track of repairs and going upstairs became too much - and she was a very independent individual.

SOME - like her friend continued to live alone in the family home till well into her 90s as she was very attached to it.

Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. If a person has a family that would 'force' them out of their home for benefit then they will find some other way of getting their hands on the money.

I think most people would be very surprised how expensive it is to 'downsize'. Sheltered housing with services could easily cost as much as a decent house in most towns. If you happen to own a 3 story georgian house in Dublin then you might make a few bob - though a sheltered house in Dublin is going to cost more than one down the country. So there isn't going to be a huge pool of available money floating around.

Its just one option, and one that would make sense in the current housing climate, but it is not something that is being forced on this mass of 'elderly people' that appear to be seen as a grouping that needs to be organised and all think the same. I am one of them and my situation is far from conventional at the moment, so please don't make assumptions about me.

Where is anyone making assumptions? Some of us are just saying that while we don't see a problem with retirement villages for those that need or want them, we do see a problem if it becomes a policy to try and persuade older people to move into retirement villages as opposed to either staying in their own home or downsizing within their community.

Graham · 26-02-2019 11:03AM

The scant details so far suggest people remaining within their communities is a significant consideration/goal.

_Brian · 26-02-2019 11:20AM

jasper100 wrote: »

That doesnt gloss over the fact that she is squatting in a 4 bed house while a young family of 4 are forced to live in a hotel room because of her selfish actions.

Get her moved on.

When you work hard all your life to provide a house it’s not squatting.

The vast majority in hotel rooms are there because of the crappy life decisions they made, no education, no jobs, hooked up with losers, having kids with no means to support them, choose whichever applies. There are occasional hard luck stories but the majority have just ****ed up their own lives through poor decisions

weldoninhio · 26-02-2019 11:21AM

_Brian wrote: »

My mum is 75, independent, drives her car daily and lives in a rural area.

She lives in the family home, 4 bed house she and my dad renovated in the 1990’s.

Most of the family live within 2 miles and call few times a week, her sister, also a widow lives 3 miles away and the visit each other twice a week.

Closest retirement village is 30 miles away. She would have a miserable time there, hate every minute. She’s much better where she is being visited by friends and family daily, she picks up grandchildren from school 5 days a week which as she says earns her petrol money and makes her feel useful and connected to them.

Lovely story. Not sure what the point is. No one is advocating rounding up all elderly people and moving them. It would be their choice.

Sleepy · 26-02-2019 11:22AM

Why are the elderly such a sacred cow in Irish society?

I mean, I get why governments are afraid of them: they vote more than any other demographic. But why are so many of us younger people so quick to give them preferential treatment? As a demographic, pensioners suffered the effects of the last recession far less than the rest of us and have many more entitlements than younger people: grants for home repairs and upgrades, free travel, free tv licences etc.

Yet, when you think about it: pensioners are the most responsible living demographic for much of our country's problems. They were the ones who continuously voted for corrupt politicians and the economic policies that caused the recession they were so sheltered from the effects of.

Even here: where a suggestion of using taxpayer money to subsidise pensioners to make what may be the best choice for their quality of life, you have people up in arms. :rolleyes:

Ush1 · 26-02-2019 11:32AM

Sleepy wrote: »

Why are the elderly such a sacred cow in Irish society?

I mean, I get why governments are afraid of them: they vote more than any other demographic. But why are so many of us younger people so quick to give them preferential treatment? As a demographic, pensioners suffered the effects of the last recession far less than the rest of us and have many more entitlements than younger people: grants for home repairs and upgrades, free travel, free tv licences etc.

Yet, when you think about it: pensioners are the most responsible living demographic for much of our country's problems. They were the ones who continuously voted for corrupt politicians and the economic policies that caused the recession they were so sheltered from the effects of.

Even here: where a suggestion of using taxpayer money to subsidise pensioners to make what may be the best choice for their quality of life, you have people up in arms. :rolleyes:

It's similar to nurses and certain professions, it's an emotive topic.

Not that I'm that way inclined, but you would think the looney leftys would be going after the older folks also, they have by far the most wealth in the country.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 26-02-2019 11:42AM

Sleepy wrote: »

Why are the elderly such a sacred cow in Irish society?

I mean, I get why governments are afraid of them: they vote more than any other demographic. But why are so many of us younger people so quick to give them preferential treatment? As a demographic, pensioners suffered the effects of the last recession far less than the rest of us and have many more entitlements than younger people: grants for home repairs and upgrades, free travel, free tv licences etc.

Yet, when you think about it: pensioners are the most responsible living demographic for much of our country's problems. They were the ones who continuously voted for corrupt politicians and the economic policies that caused the recession they were so sheltered from the effects of.

Even here: where a suggestion of using taxpayer money to subsidise pensioners to make what may be the best choice for their quality of life, you have people up in arms. :rolleyes:

Most elderly people in Ireland have been through pretty hard times themselves. They grew up in a country that was extremely poor and where opportunities were limited. Sitting your leaving certificate was a privilege and going to college was for an elite few. Most of them were out earning a living by the time they were sixteen or seventeen, and lived very basically while they paid off their mortgages (with foreign holidays, regular meals out and two cars unheard of luxuries for most). They are also the demographic most likely to be volunteering in their community and doing charity work. Many of them, having reared their own families, are now spending their later years looking after grandchildren so their own children can work and pay off their mortgages. Not to mention the significant financial assistance many give to their kids to help them get on the property market.

No one's saying they should get special treatment. But they should be treated with respect and not be viewed as some kind of drain on society because they want to remain in the home they have bought and paid for and the communities they have been part of for a long time.

And yes, those who do need or want to move to a smaller place, or one where they have more care should be provided with this. But the important role of older people in their own communities should also be recognised.

Encouraging older people to move to retirement home type villages

Comments