Is it worth getting a hybrid

uck51js9zml2yt · 21-02-2019 11:34am #1

I'm having to travel 40 km each way 5 days a week on rural roads.

Is it worth getting a hybrid as opposed to a diesel.

An EV is out for me due to the need occasionally to go beyond an 80km range...I think
Thanks

ELM327 · 21-02-2019 11:55am

No, probably won't save any money for you.
If you're looking at changing anyway then a hybrid is a nicer drive than a diesel but is unlikely to offer significant cost savings (despite the ridiculous "self charging" ads from toyota claiming to the contrary).

Full EV have ranges well in excess of 80km. The Ioniq is 160km and the new Kona has up to 400.

uck51js9zml2yt · 21-02-2019 12:08pm

ELM327 wrote: »

No, probably won't save any money for you.
If you're looking at changing anyway then a hybrid is a nicer drive than a diesel but is unlikely to offer significant cost savings (despite the ridiculous "self charging" ads from toyota claiming to the contrary).

Full EV have ranges well in excess of 80km. The Ioniq is 160km and the new Kona has up to 400.

The budget isn't there for a Kona unfortunately. It may well be a diesel and wait for technology to improve.

A hybrid would have been nice for the commutes. It might still work as beyond 80 a day would be rare.

unkel · 21-02-2019 12:13pm

If you have both home and work charging you will in some PHEV (plug in hybrid) save yourself a fortune compared to any petrol (incl. hybrid) and diesel cars with a 40km each way commmute

What's your budget and how often and how far are your trips beyond 80km?

looksee · 21-02-2019 12:27pm

I have a Toyota Hybrid. It is very pleasant to drive and I find when I drive it myself I get great mileage out of it. While I am an older person I do drive at a decent speed (I generally pass speed cameras going 'oops' but have not actually been caught). I think I get to those speeds more gently than my daughter who drives much more aggressively. Not that she speeds particularly but she forces the car to get to speed faster than I do, and it is obvious in the fuel use. I would not bother, I would sit in the slow lane doing 110, but she overtakes traffic on motorways no problem.

We have been cruising on the motorway at 120 and the needle still in the green zone. On local roads its just a matter of being a bit more relaxed about driving. So a lot of it is down to how you drive it, it will do the speeds no problem but to get best fuel consumption you drive with a lighter foot.

The two quibbles I would have are the reduced boot space resulting from the batteries, and the fact that it gets upset, overheats, if driven uphill for long stretches (we live in a mountainy area). This is really only an issue if you get off main roads and go rallying up lengthy steep bits, my old Jazz would have no problem, but the Toyota is not keen.

micks_address · 21-02-2019 12:30pm

Might be worth considering petrol to? Some are offering 40mpg plus and might have cheaper purchase price

ELM327 · 21-02-2019 12:31pm

If you are looking at a new car anyway, the new toyota CHR is a looker and a hybrid.

micks_address · 21-02-2019 12:35pm

ELM327 wrote: »

If you are looking at a new car anyway, the new toyota CHR is a looker and a hybrid.

i drove my uncles CHR a few months ago. Its a high spec model with leather etc.. i found it drove lovely but has a small boot and the cabin felt weirdly dark inside.. the rear view is a little restricted to with all the angles going on with the styling. it was nice to drive though..

micks_address · 21-02-2019 12:36pm

unkel wrote: »

If you have both home and work charging you will in some PHEV (plug in hybrid) save yourself a fortune compared to any petrol (incl. hybrid) and diesel cars with a 40km each way commmute

What's your budget

and how often and how far are your trips beyond 80km?

hi unkel, for such a commute (mine is similar only up and down the m50 from north Dublin each day) what phev would you be looking at? Family of four with tall teenager in the back..

21-02-2019 12:54pm

If you have to "occasionally" travel past the range of an EV it's not a biggie. If occasionally is more than once every month, waiting at the chargers gets old soon. But if you only need to do a handful of trips a year that are longer than about 200 km you might as well go for the EV. The charging situation will get much better this year due to investment on redundant networks and charging for charging which removes the freeloaders from the system.

Do you have a second car in the house that could do the long trips?

uck51js9zml2yt · 21-02-2019 1:57pm

Thanks for the replies.
We have a second car, diesel which my wife uses.
We are in Kerry, so not sure about charging points.
The only time we'd need the 2nd car for longer trips is when we have visitors, so really it's just into work and home.

It probably wouldn't be a biggie to hire a car when the in-laws are over.

Budget isn't set yet. It will probably be a loan with the idea that saving diesel every month will go towards the repayments.

Mickeroo · 21-02-2019 2:00pm

Mckenna Mealy Acne wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.
We have a second car, diesel which my wife uses.
We are in Kerry, so not sure about charging points.
The only time we'd need the 2nd car for longer trips is when we have visitors, so really it's just into work and home.

It probably wouldn't be a biggie to hire a car when the in-laws are over.

Budget isn't set yet. It will probably be a loan with the idea that saving diesel every month will go towards the repayments.

A rapid charger was installed in Killarney recently. If you got an EV you'd hardly ever need to use that though as you would do 99% of your charging overnight at your house.

unkel · 21-02-2019 2:10pm

micks_address wrote: »

hi unkel, for such a commute (mine is similar only up and down the m50 from north Dublin each day) what phev would you be looking at? Family of four with tall teenager in the back..

Depends on your budget. The cheapest PHEV with a decent range would be a second hand Mitsubishi Outlander or Vauxhall Ampera both from about €12k or so

uck51js9zml2yt · 21-02-2019 2:12pm

unkel wrote: »

Depends on your budget. The cheapest PHEV with a decent range would be a second hand Mitsubishi Outlander or Vauxhall Ampera both from about €12k or so

What year would I be looking at unkel.

It was much easier buying the wife a car. High roof and AWD.;)

n97 mini · 21-02-2019 2:17pm

Mckenna Mealy Acne wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.
We have a second car, diesel which my wife uses.
We are in Kerry, so not sure about charging points.

Go for a full EV. Use the diesel when you need to go on long journeys.

Charging points are irrelevant for local use. You have electricity in your house.

21-02-2019 2:32pm

Mckenna Mealy Acne wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.
We have a second car, diesel which my wife uses.
We are in Kerry, so not sure about charging points.
The only time we'd need the 2nd car for longer trips is when we have visitors, so really it's just into work and home.

It probably wouldn't be a biggie to hire a car when the in-laws are over.

Budget isn't set yet. It will probably be a loan with the idea that saving diesel every month will go towards the repayments.

Once you can charge at home the other local charging points are irrelevant unlike with petrol/diesel/hybrid where you still need to rely on the filling stations. I would definitely give a good second thought for a BEV!

Based my personal experience the current LEAF for example can do the Dublin-Sneem with one 40 minute charge each way (plus charging at both ends) if driven at 100 km/h real speed on the motorway. Ioniq is about the same and can economically cruise at 120 too plus it can actually charge quickly and could do return trip in a day if necessary.

If you want to save about half the money compared to a new car, an used 161 30 kWh LEAF for about 15k or eGolf 26 kWh would comfortably do your daily commute, same but better again i3 33 kWh or even an early one with a REX. A 9k-> 132-172 24 kWh LEAF should be able to do 80 km return too under any conditions but it might be too close for a comfort in the depth of the winter.

zilog_jones · 21-02-2019 5:45pm

looksee wrote: »

The two quibbles I would have are ..., and the fact that it gets upset, overheats, if driven uphill for long stretches (we live in a mountainy area)

Which car is this, and what is happening exactly? I've driven my Prius up many hills (Cork) and have never experienced any overheating or performance issues (many temperatures monitored using Hybrid Assistant and OBDII reader).

But anyway, I think the OP could go for an EV or PHEV.

ELM327 · 21-02-2019 6:06pm

zilog_jones wrote: »

Which car is this, and what is happening exactly? I've driven my Prius up many hills (Cork) and have never experienced any overheating or performance issues (many temperatures monitored using Hybrid Assistant and OBDII reader).

But anyway, I think the OP could go for an EV or PHEV.

We have a mark2 prius and have never experienced this issue either.

looksee · 21-02-2019 7:24pm

zilog_jones wrote: »

Which car is this, and what is happening exactly? I've driven my Prius up many hills (Cork) and have never experienced any overheating or performance issues (many temperatures monitored using Hybrid Assistant and OBDII reader).

But anyway, I think the OP could go for an EV or PHEV.

Its a 2016 Toyota Yaris. Only happened a couple of times. Both times we were on very minor roads on fairly steep inclines and when we stopped we got a strong smell of overheating. We go over the Vee between Waterford and Tipp on a regular basis and never any issues at all.

denismc · 22-02-2019 4:36am

OP, I have a similar commute to you, so sold one of our diesels and got an EV.
We still have a 10 year old Octavia for the long trips and because it has great space in the boot.
The EV now does 90% of our driving, I only take the Skoda out to my mothers every few weeks to give it a long spin and to charge the battery.

daheff · 22-02-2019 8:51am

micks_address wrote: »

hi unkel, for such a commute (mine is similar only up and down the m50 from north Dublin each day) what phev would you be looking at? Family of four with tall teenager in the back..

take a look at kia niro phev. good car, nice spec +range of around 50-55km on a full charge

slave1 · 22-02-2019 10:37am

Mckenna Mealy Acne wrote: »

Budget isn't set yet. It will probably be a loan with the idea that saving diesel every month will go towards the repayments.

You need to work it out for sure, I've just changed jobs and the commute is now doable every day of the year in our Leaf30, I know my diesel mpg and I'm saving €49.86 a week by taking the L30 versus an efficient (58mpg) diesel.
I'll likely take the diesel one day a week to give her a good run but even taking that into account I'm looking at a €39.89 saving a week, over a 47 week work year that will be a €1,874 saving.

Obviously I have to discount the increase usage of the diesel by herself but that has reduced a lot recently with more walking so I'll get around to quantifying it in a while.

This is based on the fact I'm on a fixed price electricity plan and therefore my savings will be temporarily much higher until that plan runs out...

uck51js9zml2yt · 22-02-2019 12:05pm

slave1 wrote: »

You need to work it out for sure, I've just changed jobs and the commute is now doable every day of the year in our Leaf30, I know my diesel mpg and I'm saving €49.86 a week by taking the L30 versus an efficient (58mpg) diesel.
I'll likely take the diesel one day a week to give her a good run but even taking that into account I'm looking at a €39.89 saving a week, over a 47 week work year that will be a €1,874 saving.

Obviously I have to discount the increase usage of the diesel by herself but that has reduced a lot recently with more walking so I'll get around to quantifying it in a while.

This is based on the fact I'm on a fixed price electricity plan and therefore my savings will be temporarily much higher until that plan runs out...

Budget wise I'm probably looking at 15k

I'm doing the commute in my 08 petrol for about 35 a week.
My wife is using slightly less per week in the diesel.

I took the diesel to dublin this week and made the return on about €50 worth of fuel. Cruise control most of the way.
A hybrid would be my preference but a long range EV might do.

zilog_jones · 22-02-2019 1:35pm

looksee wrote: »

Its a 2016 Toyota Yaris. Only happened a couple of times. Both times we were on very minor roads on fairly steep inclines and when we stopped we got a strong smell of overheating. We go over the Vee between Waterford and Tipp on a regular basis and never any issues at all.

If the engine's under high load at low speed (less airflow) then you may smell it more, but that's not to say it's overheating. If there's no temperature gauge, there is a warning light, and if that didn't come on it's within normal operating temperatures. I've seen mine go up to maybe 93-94 degrees (ICE coolant temp) at most, which is only marginally above normal.

22-02-2019 1:44pm

OP , You might be able to get a 30 Kwh leaf at that price 16-17 K it would be well worth it to spend a little extra because the fuel savings would pay you back in a few years.

Currently the fast charging situation is not so good but hopefully by next Summer it should have improved a lot.

I would avoid Hybrid tech, Toyota Hybrid tech has not advanced much since 2004 and still use NiMh batteries.

At the very least Toyota should have has a BMW i3 Rex like system where the battery is the main source of fuel with the engine coming on only when the battery runs low but they spent years ans billions in Hydrogen R&D with only 1 hydrogen car model that no one wants to show for it.

So while Hybrid is absolutely better to diesel EV tech is more than good enough for you, in my opinion of course.

n97 mini · 23-02-2019 12:19am

Mckenna Mealy Acne wrote: »

Budget wise I'm probably looking at 15k

I'm doing the commute in my 08 petrol for about 35 a week.
My wife is using slightly less per week in the diesel.

In comparison. Our Leaf was charged almost exclusively at home, and in the first 12 months of ownership it covered 10,000km, costing us around about €100 in fuel.

We then bought an Ampera (a PHEV). The drive from London to Dublin broke my heart as it cost more to get it home than it cost to to fuel the Leaf for an entire year.

uck51js9zml2yt · 23-02-2019 5:03pm

Im still no wiser

KELTICKNIGHTT · 23-02-2019 8:03pm

I be getting hybrid towards end of this year. Ev not good enough on range yet and only ev is Hyundai loan is good but not at 49k. too much for it.
In another fe years be better choices but not at moment.
Looking at 3 hybrids and depending what there when I'm buying I buy.

n97 mini · 23-02-2019 9:05pm

Mckenna Mealy Acne wrote: »

Im still no wiser

Can't make it much simpler.

Q. Will I save money on fuel by buying a hybrid instead of a diesel?
A. Comparing the best of both, no. Especially in Ireland as diesel (for some senseless reason) is subject to a lower rate of excise duty than petrol, meaning it's slightly cheaper.

Q. Why would anyone buy a hybrid so?
A1. Diesel causes local air pollution, which can cause respiratory issues, including cancers.
A2. In an effort to address the issues with diesel a modern diesel car has many high stress/high temperature components which can and do fail. A blown turbo will wipe out any savings you make from diesel. BMW are doing a recall at the moment as diesel cars are catching fire. Hybrids have no components under stress.

So, that's your answer to the original question.

However, an EV has been suggested to you.
Q. So why should I consider an EV?
A. If your daily driving is covered by an EV, it has all the benefits and more of a hybrid, including:
1. Vastly cheaper to run. If you're charging at home expect to save between 70 and 90% on fuel. If you were spending €100 a month on fuel, an EV could cost you as little as €10.
2. More convenient to fuel. Plug in when you get home. No more trips to petrol stations.
3. Cheaper to service. Less moving parts.
4. Cheaper to tax. €120.
5. No local emissions at all.
6. Vastly superior to drive. Instant throttle response. Super quiet.

Q. Ok so, why would I consider a PHEV?
A. If your regular drive is short enough to do on electric only, but you need to do much longer drives more than once in a blue moon. The latter could be done in an EV if you don't mind waiting *and* there is a Fast Charge Point en route... if not, a PHEV might be the best option.

Can't help you much more than that.

Water John · 24-02-2019 12:48am

Since your OH has a diesel car, mark that in for the long trips. Your trip to work can be done by an EV. Look at Leaf 30 with 6.6kw charging.
Honestly you both will end up using it, most of the time.
If you break out and sneak over the county bounds any time, there is a FCP in Macroom, never had to queue there.

uck51js9zml2yt · 24-02-2019 12:51am

n97 mini wrote: »

Can't make it much simpler.

Q. Will I save money on fuel by buying a hybrid instead of a diesel?
A. Comparing the best of both, no. Especially in Ireland as diesel (for some senseless reason) is subject to a lower rate of excise duty than petrol, meaning it's slightly cheaper.

Q. Why would anyone buy a hybrid so?
A1. Diesel causes local air pollution, which can cause respiratory issues, including cancers.
A2. In an effort to address the issues with diesel a modern diesel car has many high stress/high temperature components which can and do fail. A blown turbo will wipe out any savings you make from diesel. BMW are doing a recall at the moment as diesel cars are catching fire. Hybrids have no components under stress.

So, that's your answer to the original question.

However, an EV has been suggested to you.
Q. So why should I consider an EV?
A. If your daily driving is covered by an EV, it has all the benefits and more of a hybrid, including:
1. Vastly cheaper to run. If you're charging at home expect to save between 70 and 90% on fuel. If you were spending €100 a month on fuel, an EV could cost you as little as €10.
2. More convenient to fuel. Plug in when you get home. No more trips to petrol stations.
3. Cheaper to service. Less moving parts.
4. Cheaper to tax. €120.
5. No local emissions at all.
6. Vastly superior to drive. Instant throttle response. Super quiet.

Q. Ok so, why would I consider a PHEV?
A. If your regular drive is short enough to do on electric only, but you need to do much longer drives more than once in a blue moon. The latter could be done in an EV if you don't mind waiting *and* there is a Fast Charge Point en route... if not, a PHEV might be the best option.

Can't help you much more than that.

Thanks. Worthy of as sticky:)

Next question having realised the only decent Phev is an i3 and out of the budget.
Is there an EV with a range of 100km?

Though really starting to feel a diesel is my only option for now.

n97 mini · 24-02-2019 1:33am

Mckenna Mealy Acne wrote: »

Is there an EV with a range of 100km?

Virtually all of them! A first generation Leaf (2011/2012) with the associated battery wear probably won't in a worst case scenario (25% loss in battery capacity and the depths of winter), but the revised model (late 2013 on, 24kWh) shouldn't have too much trouble. Every EV since then (Ioniq, i3, Leaf 30/40 etc) will do it without breaking a sweat.

Is it worth getting a hybrid

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