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Is chiropractic nonsense?

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135

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    #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    Do they refer to themselves as Doctors?
    Generally not, as that title is legally protected in a medical context.

    However, vets have started following the North American practice and are now entitled to call themselves Dr _____. At least they actually have to go to university, though.


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    #63
    Magnatu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 260 ✭✭Magnatu


    Thanos505 wrote: »
    A good chirpractor should help you reduce wear and tear on your body by bringing you into better functional alignment.

    The chiropractors mantra. Also utter gobbledegook.


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    #64
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Thanos505 wrote: »
    A good chirpractor should help you reduce wear and tear on your body by bringing you into better functional alignment.

    This is what physiotherapy does and what chiropractors borrow, only then they add layers of magic to sell you supplements or to treat allergies by manipulating your spine.


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    #65
    Giveaway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭Giveaway


    Everything to a chiropracter is a subluxation that they can pop back in. A general anaesthetic, a large surgical disection and 3 burley orthopaedic surgeons with leverage will reduce(re align) a truly subluxed spine with difficulty.


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    #66
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Magnatu wrote: »
    The chiropractors mantra. Also utter gobbledegook.


    Yes and no. The idea that you have dislocations/subluxation along your spine that chiropractors fix up and you're good and straight then is gobbledegook. Particularly if they claim that it treats your ear infection. The idea of being functionally aligned is not. Crookedness is caused by one muscle being in spasm (or stronger spasm) than another and can cause a lot of pain and excess wear on joints. Thanos talks above about misaligned hips. If they mean that the pelvis is out of its place and need to be pushed back again, that is nonsense. If they mean that a muscle that connects to the pelvis is in spasm, and pulling the entire structure off to one side (without actually dislocating it), then that's possible. Kinda like those big window cleaners that use suspended platforms. If a line on one side was shortened (which is what happens during muscle spasm), then the structure would tilt.


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    #67
    Giveaway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭Giveaway


    Thanos505 wrote: »
    Strange that you think correcting misaligned hips or bad posture is "gobbledegook".

    They are not mis aligned. A chiropracter tells you this but everything is inline on the x rays. A true traumatic subluxation has huge rates of spinal cord injury


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    #68
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,452 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Wasn't Alan in Two and a Half Men a chiropractor?!
    Seems like unless it's a practitioner from North America best to steer clear.

    Where do osteopaths and physical therapists fit into this?
    Are osteopaths more like chiropractors and physical therapists more like physios?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #69
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thanos505 wrote: »
    Strange that you think correcting misaligned hips or bad posture is "gobbledegook".
    Maybe ask yourself why similar chancers don't pop up in areas like the engineering field, or accountancy.

    Yet, they are widespread when it comes to human health - or other things that we find crucial, such as those Freeman of the Land dopes, who claim to be able to solve people's mortgage repayment problems.

    These people target people at their most desperate and vulnerable. They need to be reined-in a bit


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    #70
    thomasdylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1905885/

    Why would someone attend a chiropractor when there's little evidence for it and there have been strokes linked to neck manipulations by chiropractors.


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    #71
    Giveaway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭Giveaway


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    Maybe ask yourself why similar chancers don't pop up in areas like the engineering field, or accountancy.

    Yet, they are widespread when it comes to human health - or other things that we find crucial, such as those Freeman of the Land dopes, who claim to be able to solve people's mortgage repayment problems.

    These people target people at their most desperate and vulnerable. They need to be reined-in a bit
    Because when the patient keels over the disease did it but when the building keels over the engineer is responsible( never the architects fault). Come to think of it maybe architects are the construction industry's chiropracters!


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    #72
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,184 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    thomasdylan wrote: »
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1905885/

    Why would someone attend a chiropractor when there's little evidence for it and there have been strokes linked to neck manipulations by chiropractors.

    Why indeed.

    Sure don't some people spend money to go to Lourdes or Medejorie to be 'healed' by a supernatural being, even though there is no evidence of that either.


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    #73
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Where do osteopaths and physical therapists fit into this?
    Are osteopaths more like chiropractors and physical therapists more like physios?

    Physio/physical therapy is evidence based. You need a university degree to practice physiotherapy. There used to be a difference in scope between the two with physical therapy being a lighter discipline with somewhat limited scope, not sure if it's still the case.

    Osteopathy and chiropractic are not evidence based (although they borrow from physiotherapy also so this part might be solid). They both add their own unverifiable understanding and concepts though so it's a case of belief not science.


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    #74
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Giveaway wrote: »
    Everything to a chiropracter is a subluxation that they can pop back in. A general anaesthetic, a large surgical disection and 3 burley orthopaedic surgeons with leverage will reduce(re align) a truly subluxed spine with difficulty.

    Indeed, the spine is very complex yet not only do Chiropractors offer the same solution to everyone who visits them, they invariably employ the same physical method to boot

    To describe what they do as reductive and lacking nuance is an understatement


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    #75
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,367 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJQfT9C5Adc


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    #76
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,184 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Forget the chiropractor for your bad back, just give this wan a call with your name and you'll be healed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-47297831


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    #77
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    Rohan Wailing Baboon wrote: »
    Complete quackery. Equine chiropractors in particular are the greatest load of bull.

    My dad used to go to an equine chiropractor for his back.


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    #78
    Agricola
    Registered Users Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    Complete quackery. Had a foot pain issue a few years back. Called a Chiro clinic local to me. The "Doctor" in the clinic happened to be a well known chiropractor who has appeared on Irish TV. I outlined what my GP had told me and mentioned what research I had done into it myself and asked her professional opinion on it. She clammed up and told me she'd call me back with an appointment in the coming days.....

    Never heard from her again, and she became uncontactable after that.

    Tried one other Chiro clinic in the next county. Quick diagnosis by a woman who was far too interested in what my line of work was, and how well I was doing financially. (Im not joking) She then presented me with a preprinted rehab plan, which involved 10 sessions at €50 a pop. Or I could pay the total up front for discount. I knew then this was a pure scam. After researching it fully and looking at the origins of chiropractic "medicine" I wasn't persuaded otherwise.


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    #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Effects wrote: »
    My dad used to go to an equine chiropractor for his back.
    How did he get on? Sounds dreadful. Hope it didn't last furlong.


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    #80
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    I know a consultant orthopedic surgeon, and he says it is dangerous nonsense, up there with homeopathy.


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    #81
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    What university do chiropractors come from?


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    #82
    Magnatu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 260 ✭✭Magnatu


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    What university do chiropractors come from?

    Many chiropractors have degrees and certs that they bought from internet "colleges" i.e you can become fully accredited in chiropracty without actually touching a real person.


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    #83
    Johnnycanyon
    Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭Johnnycanyon


    I have had mixed results with chiropractors , one only relieved me of money another sorted me out with back pain very rapidly..Having said that if they were all quacks how come they seem to stay in business for so long, at least they do around where I live?


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    #84
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Johnnycanyon wrote: »
    I have had mixed results with chiropractors , one only relieved me of money another sorted me out with back pain very rapidly..Having said that if they were all quacks how come they seem to stay in business for so long, at least they do around where I live?

    Because people are dumb and stuff like the placebo effect is crazy weird.


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    #85
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    Zero peer reviewed data to back up chiropractors, acupuncture or homeopathy.pure placebo effect, same goes for yoga, praying and mindfulness.


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    #86
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    Because people are dumb and stuff like the placebo effect is crazy weird.

    That's exactly it, distilled down to the essence.

    I'll add an example, by way of a Father Ted reference.

    If I ran a clinic where my treatment was to kick people up the arse, Len Brennan style, some people would report that I cured them. Some I'm sure would report that I was a quack but the important part is that some people would think that I had cured their ailment. Those who think I'm a quack won't come back but those who derived some benefit from a posterior kick would tell their friends, keeping the clinic afloat.

    It's the case with all quackery. You only need a few people to report positive results and their ignorance and the placebo effect are the main reasons why people think that a piece of quackery up the arse was a successful intervention.


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    #87
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Something on the origins of chiropractics.
    https://darryl-cunningham.blogspot.com/2011/08/chiropractic.html?m=1


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    #88
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,452 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    Zero peer reviewed data to back up chiropractors, acupuncture or homeopathy.pure placebo effect, same goes for yoga, praying and mindfulness.

    Placebo effects have their place bit I think I prefer my placebo effects without any extra risk of strokes...

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #89
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    Zero peer reviewed data to back up chiropractors, acupuncture or homeopathy.pure placebo effect, same goes for yoga, praying and mindfulness.

    I've experience of both Chiropractors and acupuncture

    The Chiropractor caused actual harm

    In the case of acupuncture, physiotherapist I visit does it and it has been more effective for me with some injuries than others, I do believe acupuncture is helpful however and at least does no harm


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    #90
    donspeekinglesh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,863 ✭✭✭donspeekinglesh


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    In the case of acupuncture, physiotherapist I visit does it and it has been more effective for me with some injuries than others, I do believe acupuncture is helpful however and at least does no harm

    Acupuncture or dry needling? Dry needling has a veneer of being evidence based - needle goes where muscle hurts to release tension. Not trying to cure non-muscular illnesses like acupuncture. (I haven't looked into dry needling to see what the evidence is like, but I find it helpful, but that could as easily been regression to the mean.)


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    #91
    fonecrusher1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    Load of rubbish.

    Its basically an entirely made up school of 'healing' that relies on the placebo effect. Yes placebo effect treatment is something that can help in some cases but these guys seem to think they can cure all sorts of serious illnesses / conditions which is dangerous.


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