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Ongoing religious scandals

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    #3182
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,208 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdQC-DD9fz4

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #3183
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,166 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    robindch wrote: »
    Over a period of many years, two catholic nuns spent around half a million dollars of school funds on travel to, and gambling in, Las Vegas. The school's pastor, a Monsignor Michael Meyers, said that the school will not be prosecuting the nuns.
    Curse that separation of church and state nonsense! In the good old days, church agencies regularly mounted criminal prosecutions. Now, only state-appointed prosecutors can do it. It's political correctness gone mad, I tell you!


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    #3184
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Seems like certain Cardinal has had some bad news but there's a reporting ban at the moment so I suppose I won't name him.

    Coincidentally the same Cardinal has just been demoted by the Pope. Poor chap...


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    #3185
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    In no-doubt unrelated news, Vatican Treasurer, George Cardinal Pell of whom much anon in this thread, has been removed from the Council of Cardinals:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46539341

    While theage.com.au reports on reporting restrictions concerning a conviction in a high-profile crime which may or may not involve Mr Pell.

    https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/why-the-media-is-unable-to-report-on-a-case-that-has-generated-huge-interest-online-20181212-p50lta.html


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    #3186
    doiredoire
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭doiredoire


    Why is there reporting restrictions on the Cardinal Pell case?


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    #3187
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭mikhail


    doiredoire wrote: »
    Why is there reporting restrictions on the Cardinal Pell case?
    He has a second case pending they don't want him to be able to argue he can't get a fair trial for, so there's a temporary gag order on Aussie press.


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    #3188
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,208 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It's a nonsense in this day and age though.

    Remember the 'superinjunctions' when some celebs got gagging orders in the English courts (so presumably Wales also) and the Scottish papers happily printed the story...

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #3189
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    It's reported that Meath born cleric (Fr John O'Reilly), will soon have just 72hrs, to leave Chile after serving time:
    https://www.thesun.ie/news/3503836/irish-paedophile-priest-john-o-reilly-expulsion-chile/

    Not sure how he'll fair with the Mexicans, those folks sure won't mess around, if your aim is to harm their young citizens.


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    #3190
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    robindch wrote: »
    In no-doubt unrelated news, Vatican Treasurer, George Cardinal Pell of whom much anon in this thread, has been removed from the Council of Cardinals:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46539341

    While theage.com.au reports on reporting restrictions concerning a conviction in a high-profile crime which may or may not involve Mr Pell.

    https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/why-the-media-is-unable-to-report-on-a-case-that-has-generated-huge-interest-online-20181212-p50lta.html

    Reported here:
    https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2018/12/12/cardinal-pell-top-advisor-pope-francis-found-guilty-historical-sexual-offenses


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    #3191
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    doiredoire wrote: »
    Why is there reporting restrictions on the Cardinal Pell case?

    The Australians are very sensitive to reporting as there are more cases to come.
    He was forund guilty.


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    #3192
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,166 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    doiredoire wrote: »
    Why is there reporting restrictions on the Cardinal Pell case?
    As others have said, to avoid prejudicing a second trial on separate charges, due to be held next year. Regardless of the outcome of the second trial, the reporting restrictions in relation to the first trial will be lifted as soon as the second trial is complete.


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    #3193
    doiredoire
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭doiredoire


    Traumadoc wrote: »
    The Australians are very sensitive to reporting as there are more cases to come.
    He was forund guilty.

    Couldn't happen to a nicer fellow. He's a nasty piece of work.


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    #3194
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Pell's unfortunate comment when appearing on a debate with Dawkins now taking on a whole other hue:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBNVwoii7og


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    #3195
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,208 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    he's a cannibal? :eek:

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #3196
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    All very recently removed from duty: Cardinal in Australia, Cardinal in Congo, Cardinal in Washington (Wuerl)
    Earlier in the year the Scottish Cardinal O’Brien was forced to resign after revelations emerged.
    Nor even the entire offer of resignations from all x34 Chilean Bishops for abuse or cover-ups.
    Plenty more lower status ranks too one could assume, that aren't even reported in the global media.

    Bad year for the Cardinals, not sure who's higher in status than these chaps, other than the Pope himself?

    Perhaps it leaves too much work for Francis alone to exorcise such likely demonic posession from so many high ranking staff.
    Maybe he needs some sort of internal-MP or NavySeal-type 'Spirtual A-team' (wooden stakes, garlic, nano-silver, holywater spray bottles etc)
    - in the very battle for his staff's own souls.

    Should specalised training be increased even further, and the lower ranks be allowed to challenge superiors if there is suspicion?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/30/exorcism-training-course-put-vatican-demand-rises/
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43697573


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    #3197
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Xzavier Loud Steam wrote: »
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43697573
    That's a weird photo there.
    Young priests. It just doesn't look right.


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    #3198
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,026 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    "A new investigation by the Illinois attorney general's office has identified 500 priests and clergy members with credible claims of sexual abuse against them, all of whom have not been previously identified by church officials and some of whom are still active within the church.
    On Wednesday, outgoing Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan released the preliminary findings of an investigation that her office launched in August of this year.
    Before her office's investigation, the six diocese in Illinois had publicly named 140 priests with claims against them. After Madigan's investigation began, the Catholic Church named an additional 45 priests themselves.
    But Madigan's investigation has found 500 separate priests and clergy with credible abuse claims against them, according to Maura Possley, the communications director for the attorney general."
    https://abcnews.go.com/US/investigation-identifies-500-catholic-priests-clergy-accused-sex/story?id=59930318


    Doesn't give a time span, but on the face of it a fairly horrific total.


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    #3199
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    ^ That 500 is an additional amount, bringing the Illinois clergy accused total to around 700.

    Also in the news today: Former "singing" priest Tony Walsh has received an additional partially suspended sentence for indecently assaulting a teenage boy 35 years ago.
    He is currently doing 7.5yrs, it says in the papers. https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2018/1219/1018155-tony-walsh-courts/

    Meanwhile Pope Francis has said that the Catholic Church will never again treat abuse allegations without "seriousness and promptness", calling on abusers to 'hand themselves in to police'.
    https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2018/1221/1018540-pope-francis/

    Now if the singing priest didn't hand himself in (35yrs ago), what's the chance any others will.
    Maybe he meant is anyone else in the church, that has a suspicion - for them to seek human justice (state law), nevermind eventual divine justice.

    A bit like sending out a request for all speeding drivers to hand themselves in, whilst the speed camera operator switches off their monitor.


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    #3200
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,208 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    What Frankie means is - "Elderly gentlemen and ladies of the faithful who are rich - rest easy as soon your "souls" may rest easy, given the size of your legacy - we shall never again allow abusers to enter religious orders but that's pretty easy seeing as almost no-one is entering religious orders. In the meantime, pray now, pay later."

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #3201
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Xzavier Loud Steam wrote: »
    Former "singing" priest Tony Walsh has received an additional partially suspended sentence for indecently assaulting a teenage boy 35 years ago.
    For a dreadful moment there, I misunderstood that "singing" suggested that Tony might have implicated some of his fellow brethren.

    Has any priest ever sung to the authorities, unbidden, in respect of another priest? I'm drawing a blank on this one.


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    #3202
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,208 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It's like there's a "veil" of silence.

    But, as I've said before, if the gen pop has six degrees of separation the Irish priesthood has two.

    There was always a handful of seminaries, there was always "Of course, I knew Fr X who was in seminary Y at the same time as Fr Z who went on to server with Fr A in parish B"

    If any of them were suddenly moved on, they all knew, even if they were stupid/naive/in denial enough to not know why, but they knew something odd was happening

    Once that happens more than once to Fr Feely (and more than once it often did) you didn't have to be Fr Columbo to figure out that something was very wrong.

    But they have a code of omerta the other Italian Mafia can only dream about.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #3203
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,026 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    It's like there's a "veil" of silence.

    But, as I've said before, if the gen pop has six degrees of separation the Irish priesthood has two.

    There was always a handful of seminaries, there was always "Of course, I knew Fr X who was in seminary Y at the same time as Fr Z who went on to server with Fr A in parish B"

    If any of them were suddenly moved on, they all knew, even if they were stupid/naive/in denial enough to not know why, but they knew something odd was happening

    Once that happens more than once to Fr Feely (and more than once it often did) you didn't have to be Fr Columbo to figure out that something was very wrong.

    But they have a code of omerta the other Italian Mafia can only dream about.


    It's grim reading

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/tony-walsh-more-jail-time-for-a-most-notorious-child-abuser-1.2727186


    https://www.thejournal.ie/defrocked-priest-tony-walsh-abused-hundreds-of-children-59338-Dec2010/


    In general loyalty goes to the order, senior members of that order, friends/lovers within the order, etc, with you/me and the rest way down the list. There's a strict culture of obedience and protocols that make questioning or reporting a senior figure an unthinkable prospect. On the other hand there's no such hang ups with regards to undermining victims and stifling queries from outside the church.


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    #3204
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,026 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Chapter 19 of the Murphy report. Walsh is referred to as "Jovito" through out.

    http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Further portions.pdf/Files/Further portions.pdf


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    #3205
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Odhinn wrote: »
    There's a strict culture of obedience and protocols that make questioning or reporting a senior figure an unthinkable prospect.
    In so many ways, the church's culture of silence and non-co-operation mirrors that of Omerta from another well-known brotherly, Italian international organization.


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    #3206
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,208 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Well, on the plus side at least we don't have wise guys from Order A "whacking" wise guys from Order B.

    Happy fun-day-between-solstice-and-new-year everybody :)

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #3207
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Oops, another Vatican insider looks like he might be taking early retirement in a secure location:

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/vatican-argentine-bishop-at-holy-see-under-investigation-37680831.html


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    #3208
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Two communication honchos left also on Jan 1st. Or are removed (one or the other), by the head of comms.

    The Vatican spokesman, Greg Burke, and his deputy resigned abruptly Monday amid an overhaul of the Vatican’s communications operations.
    http://time.com/5491196/vatican-spokesman-resign-pope-francis-greg-burke/


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    #3209
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Given the unreliability of Indian media and Indian government behaviour, the reports below may be inaccurate or they may report accurate outcomes, but based upon inaccurate government information.

    Nonetheless, it's being reported that some of the children's homes belonging to the Missionaries of Charity (Mother Teresa's places), plus others, are to be shut down by the Indian government following allegations that they've been involved in the sale of babies.

    https://missionariesofcharity.wordpress.com/2019/01/21/mother-teresas-orphanage-and-others-to-be-shut-down-by-indian-government/
    http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2019/jan/20/license-of-nirmal-hriday-15-other-shelter-homes-canceled-in-jharkhand-1927407.html


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    #3210
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,026 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Significant, I think.


    "ROME — The Vatican on Saturday said it had defrocked ex-cardinal Theodore McCarrick, leveling a historic penalty against a onetime church power broker and former archbishop of Washington after the church found him guilty of sexual abuse.
    It is the most significant abuse-related punishment given to a former cardinal in the modern history of the Roman Catholic Church."
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/ex-cardinal-mccarrick-defrocked-by-vatican-for-sexual-abuse/2019/02/16/0aa365d4-2e2c-11e9-8ad3-9a5b113ecd3c_story.html?utm_term=.38e70ee52d65


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    #3211
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,728 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Significant, I think.


    "ROME — The Vatican on Saturday said it had defrocked ex-cardinal Theodore McCarrick, leveling a historic penalty against a onetime church power broker and former archbishop of Washington after the church found him guilty of sexual abuse.
    It is the most significant abuse-related punishment given to a former cardinal in the modern history of the Roman Catholic Church."
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/ex-cardinal-mccarrick-defrocked-by-vatican-for-sexual-abuse/2019/02/16/0aa365d4-2e2c-11e9-8ad3-9a5b113ecd3c_story.html?utm_term=.38e70ee52d65

    I see the Pope's organizing a meeting of senior bishops to discuss this with growing concerns about the overall credibility of the Catholic church. As many of the commentators have suggested, it seems too little, too late.


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