Going for walks in hi vis jackets

is_that_so · 16-02-2019 07:28PM

07Lapierre wrote: »

Rubbish! Lights may be small, but they are far more effective than hi-viz

https://youtu.be/57IOduT8hg8

I'm talking about what other road users can actually see. Hi-vis covers a bigger area and I think both are needed. When I cycled regularly I wore both. BTW what was the point of the video? I saw lights on a road.

freshpopcorn · 16-02-2019 07:29PM

is_that_so wrote: »

I'm talking about what you can actually see. Hi-vis covers a bigger area and I think both are needed. When I cycled regularly I wore both.

Yes and if your light did fail at least you've had your high vis.

07Lapierre · 16-02-2019 07:33PM

is_that_so wrote: »

I'm talking about what other road users can actually see. Hi-vis covers a bigger area and I think both are needed. When I cycled regularly I wore both. BTW what was the point of the video? I saw lights on a road.

The point is that the cyclists lights are visible long before the cyclist comes into view.the hi viz is only visible once my light reflects off it. At that point, I already knew there was a cyclist there anyway. By the way...the cyclist in the video is wearing reflective clothing, not hi viz.

is_that_so · 16-02-2019 07:34PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Yes and if your light did fail at least you've had your high vis.

Yep. I think a lot of the attitude of being on bike depends on what type of regular road user you are. If you drive you know what it's like to meet some road users unexpectedly in the dark and you attire yourself appropriately, whether for walking or cycling.

is_that_so · 16-02-2019 07:36PM

07Lapierre wrote: »

The point is that the cyclists lights are visible long before the cyclist comes into view.

That really depends on the light they have and there is quite a variety and more importantly the working condition of lights. Hi-vis offers an extra reflective surface and no harm having them as well. And that includes the reflective clothing.

07Lapierre · 16-02-2019 07:36PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Yes and if your light did fail at least you've had your high vis.

If your lights fail you use your back-up lights. Relying on hi viz alone is crazy!

07Lapierre · 16-02-2019 07:39PM

is_that_so wrote: »

That really depends on the light they have and there is quite a variety. Hi-vis offers an extra reflective surface and no harm having them as well.

yes I have to agree with you on the quality of lights out there. Light technology has come on in leaps and bounds over the last few years. Good lights are essential and they are quite cheap too. No excuses for anyone not having good quality lights.

freshpopcorn · 16-02-2019 07:41PM

07Lapierre wrote: »

If your lights fail you use your back-up lights. Relying on hi viz alone is crazy!

I never said to rely on just high vis!
Relying on lights alone is crazy even with back up lights.
Lights/back up lights can fail.

07Lapierre · 16-02-2019 07:45PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I never said to rely on just high vis!
Really on lights alone is crazy even with back up lights.
Lights/back up lights can fail.

Lights alone are not enough? So should we ban black cars? My car is black, the wheels are black, the tyres are black, the interior carpets and seats are black.. i drive at night all the time..how is that possible if I'm only using lights?

freshpopcorn · 16-02-2019 07:50PM

07Lapierre wrote: »

Lights alone are not enough? So should we ban black cars? My car is black, the wheels are black, the tyres are black, the interior carpets and seats are black.. i drive at night all the time..how is that possible if I'm only using lights?

Cars have rear reflectors in my experience!

AndrewJRenko · 16-02-2019 07:51PM

is_that_so wrote: »

It's really better to have both. Hi-vis is a much larger surface to see than a light.

Same for all cars then? Big hi-vis stripes on all sides of the car would be really better.

is_that_so · 16-02-2019 07:58PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Same for all cars then? Big hi-vis stripes on all sides of the car would be really better.

Well if you say so. Cars tend to have a much bigger form and far bigger lights all round. I'm a fan of be safe be seen and any extra precaution you can take to do so as a walker or cyclist is a good one in my book.

07Lapierre · 16-02-2019 08:10PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Cars have rear reflectors in my experience!

Well in my experience, the reflectors on my car are not relevant. I can drive my car at night because it has LIGHTS. reflectors on cars are a legal requirement, nothing more.

Stephen15 · 16-02-2019 08:23PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why would hi-vis be necessary with lights? Do you have trouble seeing lit cyclists?

It would be something that adds extra visability similar to the way a bright coloured car is easier to see than black or dark coloured car. Btw I wouldn't be against a law requiring cars to be brightly coloured and ban any new dark coloured being sold it would make sense.

07Lapierre · 16-02-2019 08:36PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

It would be something that adds extra visability similar to the way a bright coloured car is easier to see than black or dark coloured car. Btw I wouldn't be against a law requiring cars to be brightly coloured and ban any new dark coloured being sold it would make sense.

Are you saying all the cars in this photo are black?
Good lights Trump hi viz and reflectors. If you can't see lights, your not going to see anything! Most RTA's are the result of poor judgement (speed/distance etc.). Other factors are distraction, lack of observation, inexperience etc. Visibility is important but IMO, it's very rarely the the primary factor in RTA's.

https://www.google.ie/search?q=cars+driving+at+night&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-ie&client=safari#imgrc=HULRuqMJjIXidM:

AndrewJRenko · 16-02-2019 08:40PM

earlyevening wrote: »

Like "Lights on day daytime", maybe we should keep these helmets on whether driving or not - including sleeping. Can never be too safe...

Certainly, there's a strong arguement to be made for walking helmets, and going-out-drinking helmets, based on head injury data.

is_that_so wrote: »

Well if you say so. Cars tend to have a much bigger form and far bigger lights all round. I'm a fan of be safe be seen and any extra precaution you can take to do so as a walker or cyclist is a good one in my book.

Why is it only walkers or cyclists that should take any extra precaution. Motorists are the largest category of road deaths by a good distance. Surely motorists deserve this extra precaution.

Stephen15 wrote: »

It would be something that adds extra visability similar to the way a bright coloured car is easier to see than black or dark coloured car. Btw I wouldn't be against a law requiring cars to be brightly coloured and ban any new dark coloured being sold it would make sense.

Can we afford to wait for all the dark cars to crash themselves out of usage? Surely large hi-vis stripes for dark cars would make just as much sense as builder's jackets for cyclists?

freshpopcorn · 16-02-2019 08:45PM

07Lapierre wrote: »

Are you saying all the cars in this photo are black?
Good lights Trump hi viz and reflectors. If you can't see lights, your not going to see anything! Most RTA's are the result of poor judgement (speed/distance etc.). Other factors are distraction, lack of observation, inexperience etc. Visibility is important but IMO, it's very rarely the the primary factor in RTA's.

https://www.google.ie/search?q=cars+driving+at+night&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-ie&client=safari#imgrc=HULRuqMJjIXidM:

And if your good lights fail you have nothing.
If you rely only on lights.
Remember the Gardai and the RSA are the people dealing with our roads every day.
They are the one's who recommend wearing them. Shur why would you go against them.

07Lapierre · 16-02-2019 08:49PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

And if your good lights you have nothing.
.

freshpopcorn · 16-02-2019 08:52PM

07Lapierre wrote: »

Fixed now!

07Lapierre · 16-02-2019 08:53PM

No, my backup lights are also good.

AndrewJRenko · 16-02-2019 09:01PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Cars have rear reflectors in my experience!

Only one of the four sides? Surely more comprehensive hi-vis strips would be an important benefit.

freshpopcorn wrote: »

And if your good lights fail you have nothing.
If you rely only on lights.

I have dynamo lights and battery powered lights, front and rear. What's the chances of both sets failing simultaneously?

Do I need hi-vis as well?

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Remember the Gardai and the RSA are the people dealing with our roads every day.
They are the one's who recommend wearing them. Shur why would you go against them.

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I've seen a user on boards say listen to the experts or those involved and get very high and mighty about it.
The experts this time really are the RSA and Gardai. These are the people involved and are dealing with these issues every day.

Except they're really not experts. Real experts show evidence, they show research findings.

I've challenged the RSA on this issue directly, and the response that I got was basically that in their focus groups, people tell them that RSA are doing a decent job, so they must be doing a decent job.

They have no cost-benefit analysis of their multi-milliopn programme to wrap every sentient being in the state in a hi-vis jacket. They have no evidence to show that their programme works. They ignore the fact that a large majority of cyclist deaths are in daylight and still keep beating the hi-vis drum.

freshpopcorn · 16-02-2019 09:13PM

07Lapierre wrote: »

No, my backup lights are also good.

They might be now but how will they be in the future. Strange things can happen that. and result in a collision.
Your high visibility vest won't fail.
Why would you ignore the advice from the authorities.
It's similar to those who go out during red weather warnings to take pictures or go swimming because there this attitude I know best.

freshpopcorn · 16-02-2019 09:13PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Only one of the four sides? Surely more comprehensive hi-vis strips would be an important benefit.

If the RSA Gardai wanted to introduce this I'd be open to it.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I have dynamo lights and battery powered lights, front and rear. What's the chances of both sets failing simultaneously?

Do I need hi-vis as well?

Always expect the unexpected but you know better.
Ignore the Gardai and RSA when you think your right. Great example to be setting.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Except they're really not experts. Real experts show evidence, they show research findings.

I've challenged the RSA on this issue directly, and the response that I got was basically that in their focus groups, people tell them that RSA are doing a decent job, so they must be doing a decent job.

They have no cost-benefit analysis of their multi-milliopn programme to wrap every sentient being in the state in a hi-vis jacket. They have no evidence to show that their programme works. They ignore the fact that a large majority of cyclist deaths are in daylight and still keep beating the hi-vis drum.

Who are you better off listening to you or the people dealing with these thing every day.
I'd go with the Gardai similar to how they give advice out about attending events and concerts/etc alot of things they advise to make things run more smoothly.
Wearing a high vis jacket is a simple request that may make our roads safer.
I don't know why you'd go against it.

AndrewJRenko · 16-02-2019 09:18PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

If the RSA Gardai wanted to introduce this I'd be open to it.

Always expect the unexpected but you know better.
Ignore the Gardai and RSA when you think your right. Great example to be setting.

Who are you better off listening to you or the people dealing with these thing every day.
I'd go with the Gardai similar to how they give advice out about attending events and concerts/etc alot of things they advise to make things run more smoothly.
Wearing a high vis jacket is a simple request that may make our roads safer.
I don't know why you'd go against it.

So critical thinking isn't a big thing for you, I guess? Just do what you're told by your betters and keep your head down.

Can we take it that you take all Garda advice to heart? So you never break a speed limit, or have a phone in your hand, or have a couple of pints before driving?

07Lapierre · 16-02-2019 09:21PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

They might be now but how will they be in the future. Strange things can happen that. and result in a collision.

What? Give me an example of a "strange thing" that might happen?

Stephen15 · 16-02-2019 09:33PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why is it only walkers or cyclists that should take any extra precaution. Motorists are the largest category of road deaths by a good distance. Surely motorists deserve this extra precaution.

Yes because every car crash involves a car whereas only a minority involve a cyclist or pedestrian as pedestrians tend to walk on footpaths in urban areas and there are far less cyclists than cars on the road. Doesn't mean that pedestrians and cyclists are not more vulnerable than cars.

Metal on metal tends to have a different outcome than metal on person most car crashes involving only cars are relatively minor affairs that do not cause any injuries whereas most car v pedestrian or car v cyclist crashes involve injuries.

Can we afford to wait for all the dark cars to crash themselves out of usage? Surely large hi-vis stripes for dark cars would make just as much sense as builder's jackets for cyclists?

Now your just using silly analogies obviously many cyclists will go out without lights and nothing will happen to them sure people might get into a car and not wear a seatbelt and nothing will happen to them either should we now make seatbelts optional?

FYI hi vis jackets are not exclusive to be worn by builders. People working in warehouses generally have to wear them if there's forklifts in operation, railway workers were them when walking the tracks and also bus and truck drivers have to wear them when walking across the depot yard to collect their vehicle.

freshpopcorn · 16-02-2019 09:37PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So critical thinking isn't a big thing for you, I guess? Just do what you're told by your betters and keep your head down.

Can we take it that you take all Garda advice to heart? So you never break a speed limit, or have a phone in your hand, or have a couple of pints before driving?

I have no issue with questioning authority but wearing a high visibility jacket does make you visibly. It's a very simple request and you don't have to go out of your way to do it.
When I was around seven a Garda told me to wear my seat belt in the rear of a car.(Our precious cars hadn't them) I believe I've done so ever since.
I always watch speed limits/etc. I've told friends/family to slow down when breaking the limits.
I have never held a phone whilst driving and have told others to stop.
I have made mistakes but I don't go out of my way to do so.
I believe we share the roads and looking after your car, watching your driving, is important.
Similar to when I'm cycling, walking. I light up one wear reflective clothing, etc.

freshpopcorn · 16-02-2019 09:37PM

07Lapierre wrote: »

What? Give me an example of a "strange thing" that might happen?

Lights can fail or get damaged. No matter how fancy your lights are.
You have your lights and your back up lights but if anything did happen.You might always question would a high visibility jacket have made a difference.

07Lapierre · 16-02-2019 09:41PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Lights can fail or get damaged. No matter how fancy your lights are.
You have your lights and your back up lights but if anything did happen.You might always question would a high visibility jacket have made a difference.

Jesus! If my lights fail, AND if my backup lights fail, I'd question why my lights failed! I couldn't care less what colour vest (or socks or any other piece of clothing) I was wearing!

Ursus Horribilis · 16-02-2019 09:43PM

I've found that since many towns moved over to LCD lighting, the streets aren't as brightly lit as they were before. Sometimes I don't spot pedestrians/cyclists with no lights crossing the road until I'm nearly on top of them.

Going for walks in hi vis jackets

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