A Smoker? You're Fired!

Diceicle · 14-02-2019 3:37pm #1

I read about this on a blog that sometimes browse. Its news to me (though I now understand some places have had this since the 90's).

Nicotine Free Hiring Policy (NFHP).

First-off, I don't smoke so I've no dog in this fight, but thought it was an unsual development in the denormalisation of smoking in society, and that its something thats certainly not been on my radar - but in many instances, when the US sneezes, Ireland catches a cold so its probable it will crop up here in the future.

What the justification?
From an employers perspective, those who offer insurance to employees as part of a package - they get cheaper rates from not having any smokers (or nictoine patch wearers) on their staff.

NFHP is seemingly and understandably more common in the healthcare area, for fairly obvious reasons, but is apparently becoming more common in banking etc.

It should be noted that its also not legal in all States at present.

Bit more detail here

facehugger99 · 14-02-2019 3:40pm

I work with a smoker. I reckon his fag breaks throughout the day easily add up to around 45 minutes.

He could be using this time to do some actual work or even post sh;te on Boards like I do.

artanevilla · 14-02-2019 3:41pm

Smoke breaks and smell.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 14-02-2019 3:49pm

The Union Pacific Railroad in the US have tried to stamp out smoking in their organisation in recent yrs. For instance they will no longer hire smokers.

Predictably this has caused uproar as Rail workers in the States smoke like steam engines.

Some of their rivals are currently trying to lure the disgruntled UP smokers by promising them ample smoking opportunity.

3DataModem · 14-02-2019 3:54pm

Back in the old days when companies provided defined benefit pensions, they knew the value of letting employees smoke their loaf off. Made a big difference to the cost of a defined benefit pension scheme.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 14-02-2019 3:57pm

3DataModem wrote: »

Back in the old days when companies provided defined benefit pensions, they knew the value of letting employees smoke their loaf off. Made a big difference to the cost of a defined benefit pension scheme.

But sure everyone over the age of 11 smoked back then.

It was an entirely different time and culture.

Flyingsnowball · 14-02-2019 4:04pm

I can’t believe people still smoke. I gave them up a few weeks ago.

Now I know everything about everyone’s circumstances.

Del2005 · 14-02-2019 4:05pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

I work with a smoker. I reckon his fag breaks throughout the day easily add up to around 45 minutes.

He could be using this time to do some actual work or even post sh;te on Boards like I do.

A friend of mine was pinged by their boss for taking smoke breaks. His response was I'd have to leave the desk for the same amount of time for ergonomic breaks. Boss had to shut up

The stink off smokers is terrible though and especially when they walk straight in after their smoke. So a company of non smokers would be my preference, once they can make people with BO issues sort themselves out by washing

shar01 · 14-02-2019 4:08pm

Some company in Japan gave its non smoking employees an extra 6 days annual leave. Seems fair to me.

14-02-2019 4:30pm

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

I can’t believe people still smoke. I gave them up a few weeks ago.

Now I know everything about everyone’s circumstances.

Giving up is easy, I've done it loads of times

OneArt · 14-02-2019 4:30pm

While smoking is terrible blah blah... I don't get the people in offices moaning about smokers getting more breaks.

What kind of outdated Industrial Revolution-style office policy do you have that stops you from going for a quick walk, getting a cup of coffee etc.?

In literally every company (read: "computer work" which is a broad field) I've worked in you could go for a few minutes break without anyone even batting an eyelid. The only important thing was that the work is done. How many breaks you take is irrelevant.

Of course its different for retail, restaurants, customer facing positions etc. Your job is to literally be present and available so set breaks are a practical necessity.

But offices? Seems like an old-fashioned complaint that has no relevance today.

Gravelly · 14-02-2019 4:33pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

I work with a smoker. I reckon his fag breaks throughout the day easily add up to around 45 minutes.

He could be using this time to do some actual work or even post sh;te on Boards like I do.

We unofficially stopped hiring smokers for phone sales / admin roles a while back due to friction between smokers and non-smokers over fag breaks. Turned out it was easier to not hire smokers than retroactively impose a fag breaks ban.

bluelamp · 14-02-2019 4:34pm

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

I can’t believe people still smoke. I gave them up a few weeks ago.

Now I know everything about everyone’s circumstances.

None so pure as the reformed whore.

Diceicle · 14-02-2019 4:44pm

Gravelly wrote: »

We unofficially stopped hiring smokers for phone sales / admin roles a while back due to friction between smokers and non-smokers over fag breaks. Turned out it was easier to not hire smokers than retroactively impose a fag breaks ban.

Do you just ask them in interviews if they smoke?

Dial Hard · 14-02-2019 4:46pm

OneArt wrote: »

What kind of outdated Industrial Revolution-style office policy do you have that stops you from going for a quick walk, getting a cup of coffee etc.?

In literally every company (read: "computer work" which is a broad field) I've worked in you could go for a few minutes break without anyone even batting an eyelid. The only important thing was that the work is done. How many breaks you take is irrelevant.
.

Because realistically very few people take breaks "just because" and quite frankly I'd find it kind of weird if people did it just to enforce some kind of break parity with smokers.

....... · 14-02-2019 4:46pm

Diceicle wrote: »

Do you just ask them in interviews if they smoke?

You dont have to ask, you can smell it off them.

In some cases you can see it with their teeth/fingers.

Gravelly · 14-02-2019 4:47pm

Diceicle wrote: »

Do you just ask them in interviews if they smoke?

....... wrote: »

You dont have to ask, you can smell it off them.

In some cases you can see it with their teeth/fingers.

As above (I don't interview for those roles btw).

One eyed Jack · 14-02-2019 4:47pm

Diceicle wrote: »

I read about this on a blog that sometimes browse. Its news to me (though I now understand some places have had this since the 90's).

Nicotine Free Hiring Policy (NFHP).

First-off, I don't smoke so I've no dog in this fight, but thought it was an unsual development in the denormalisation of smoking in society, and that its something thats certainly not been on my radar - but in many instances, when the US sneezes, Ireland catches a cold so its probable it will crop up here in the future.

What the justification?
From an employers perspective, those who offer insurance to employees as part of a package - they get cheaper rates from not having any smokers (or nictoine patch wearers) on their staff.

NFHP is seemingly and understandably more common in the healthcare area, for fairly obvious reasons, but is apparently becoming more common in banking etc.

It should be noted that its also not legal in all States at present.

Bit more detail here

I expect a policy regarding Meat and Dairy Free Hiring Policy will become quite popular in coming years. The trends definitely do appear to be going that way with employers becoming more and more conscious about the health and welfare of their workforce.

Spanish Eyes · 14-02-2019 4:50pm

AI robots don't smoke or eat meat or have medical issues. The way of the future.

Tomw86 · 14-02-2019 4:52pm

I smoke, but never really do it on company time, maybe one or two during the day. No reason behind it, I just never felt the need if I was busy!

My argument when colleagues have joked about it in the past is that I don't drink tea or coffee, so if they take a break for that (and generally to natter) then whats the difference.

Anyway, it doesn't seem like intentionally not hiring someone because they smoke is legal?

Cee-Jay-Cee · 14-02-2019 4:52pm

Gravelly wrote: »

We unofficially stopped hiring smokers for phone sales / admin roles a while back due to friction between smokers and non-smokers over fag breaks. Turned out it was easier to not hire smokers than retroactively impose a fag breaks ban.

I get the idea behind not hiring smokers but what if someone said they don't smoke and then got the job and through the probationary period (if they have one) and then started smoking or lied and said they didn't smoke during the interview/application process....what are they going to do about it once the person was employed?

Mutant z · 14-02-2019 4:53pm

I'm not a smoker myself but it's no business of mine if someone choses to do so as long as you're capable of doing the job it shouldn't really be an issue tbh.

Tomw86 · 14-02-2019 4:53pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I expect a policy regarding Meat and Dairy Free Hiring Policy will become quite popular in coming years. The trends definitely do appear to be going that way with employers becoming more and more conscious about the health and welfare of their workforce.

And people who binge drink too in that case.....Work events will soon become alcohol free, or those who do sample the free bar will be promptly marched out and shot!

Gravelly · 14-02-2019 4:54pm

Tomw86 wrote: »

Anyway, it doesn't seem like intentionally not hiring someone because they smoke is legal?

There's no legislation banning discrimination against smokers. You could ask someone if they smoke at an interview and not hire them if they said yes.

Dial Hard · 14-02-2019 4:54pm

Tomw86 wrote: »

I smoke, but never really do it on company time, maybe one or two during the day.

Er, that is on company time? Personally I'd consider anything more than two cigarettes during the working day taking the piss entirely.

Tomw86 wrote: »

Anyway, it doesn't seem like intentionally not hiring someone because they smoke is legal?

Pretty sure it's perfectly legal as it's not one of the Big 9.

Gazzmonkey · 14-02-2019 4:55pm

Gravelly wrote: »

We unofficially stopped hiring smokers for phone sales / admin roles a while back due to friction between smokers and non-smokers over fag breaks. Turned out it was easier to not hire smokers than retroactively impose a fag breaks ban.

Our company has no policy around smoking... they couldn't care less. So to keep it that way I only take 30 mins for lunch instead of the full hour and my total smoke break time is 15 mins per day to smoke 4 little rollies. So I'm at my desk for 15 mins longer each day than the non smokers.

Been doing this for years now and management have yet to mention smoking to me. I think they realise if they do mention they'll lose that free 15 minutes per day that I give them.

Gravelly · 14-02-2019 4:55pm

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I get the idea behind not hiring smokers but what if someone said they don't smoke and then got the job and through the probationary period (if they have one) and then started smoking or lied and said they didn't smoke during the interview/application process....what are they going to do about it once the person was employed?

I don't know is the honest answer. I presume the employer would be well within their rights to ban them from taking smoking breaks.

odyssey06 · 14-02-2019 4:58pm

Diceicle wrote: »

What the justification?
From an employers perspective, those who offer insurance to employees as part of a package - they get cheaper rates from not having any smokers (or nictoine patch wearers) on their staff.

Or the employer could say we only offer the insurance to non-smokers, here's the job. If you want the insurance, you have to take a medical.
That would be a more reasonable position to me.

Tomw86 · 14-02-2019 4:58pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

Er, that is on company time? Personally I'd consider anything more than two cigarettes during the working day taking the piss entirely.

Pretty sure it's perfectly legal as it's not one of the Big 9.

Maybe one during the day, that's very seldom.

I would have one at lunchtime too, so not company time.

Don't go down with the masses to the canteen between 3 and 4 for coffee so it cancels itself out.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 14-02-2019 5:00pm

Gravelly wrote: »

I don't know is the honest answer. I presume the employer would be well within their rights to ban them from taking smoking breaks.

I would agree with that policy. One person in our office smokes and takes between 4-6 smoke breaks a day (not including the one he has after morning tea or lunch time) Each one is between 10-15 minutes long as he also has to go and make a cup of coffee to have with his smoke each time. Now in fairness he's absolutely useless anyway and I doubt banning him from smoking would increase his productivity but it does seem unfair the amount of time he wastes out nattering with the other smokers.

Gravelly · 14-02-2019 5:00pm

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

Our company has no policy around smoking... they couldn't care less. So to keep it that way I only take 30 mins for lunch instead of the full hour and my total smoke break time is 15 mins per day to smoke 4 little rollies. So I'm at my desk for 15 mins longer each day than the non smokers.

Been doing this for years now and management have yet to mention smoking to me. I think they realise if they do mention they'll lose that free 15 minutes per day that I give them.

In our Irish HQ, the smokers have to go down the lift, sign out at the front desk, walk 200m across the car park to smoke, and then repeat the whole process in reverse. Plus someone has to empty the fag bin, clean up after them etc.
Our employees have to take their full breaks to comply with company policy, so fag breaks are additional time that non-smokers don't get.
There's also the "us and them" anti social element.

A Smoker? You're Fired!

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