RTB Determanation

ninjarambohd · 14-02-2019 1:09pm #1

Hi everyone. I am a tenant and have just received the RTB adjudicator's decision. But, I don't fully understand the decision. Can someone please put this into simpler terms for me?

In the matter of "my name", Applicant tenant and "landlord name" respondent landlord, the residential tenancies boards determines that:

The respondent landlord shall pay the total sum of 2783.60 to the applicant tenant, withing 28 days of the date of issue of the order, being damages of 5630 euros for breach of landlord obligations for failure to carry out necessary repairs less 2846.40 euros in rent arrears in respect of the tenancy of the dwelling "My address".

Dalomanakora · 14-02-2019 1:13pm

It means the landlord has to pay you the 2700-odd. The damages were 5000-odd, but they deducted rent you owed him, leaving him having to pay you 2700.

He has to give you 2700 within 28 days

ninjarambohd · 14-02-2019 1:16pm

Dalomanakora wrote: »

It means the landlord has to pay you the 2700-odd. The damages were 5000-odd, but they deducted rent you owed him, leaving him having to pay you 2700.

He has to give you 2700 within 28 days

So does that mean that I don't owe him any arrears anymore? It also says this in finding facts: "That the landlord is entitled to the payment of 2846.40 in rent arrears in respect of the period July 2018 to the date of the hearing not including the rent for January 2019 as rent is due at the end of each month.

FishOnABike · 14-02-2019 1:27pm

ninjarambohd wrote: »

So does that mean that I don't owe him any arrears anymore? It also says this in finding facts: "That the landlord is entitled to the payment of 2846.40 in rent arrears in respect of the period July 2018 to the date of the hearing not including the rent for January 2019 as rent is due at the end of each month.

Yes, the arrears (2846.40) have already been deducted from the full amount (5630) the RTB awarded you. The landlord owes you the balance of the award (5630 - 2846.40) = 2783.60 and has 28 days from the date of the RTB determination to pay it to you.

If you are still renting the property you still need to pay the current rent as it falls due.

ninjarambohd · 14-02-2019 1:33pm

FishOnABike wrote: »

Yes, the arrears (2846.40) have already been deducted from the full amount (5630) the RTB awarded you. The landlord owes you the balance of the award (5630 - 2846.40) = 2783.60 and has 28 days from the date of the RTB determination to pay it to you.

If you are still renting the property you still need to pay the current rent as it falls due.

Thank you.

Askthe EA · 14-02-2019 2:39pm

Im almost afraid to ask, but why did you take the landlord to the RTB?

ninjarambohd · 14-02-2019 2:44pm

Askthe EA wrote: »

Im almost afraid to ask, but why did you take the landlord to the RTB?

Because I kept telling him the house needs to be repaired over the past few years but he never responded.

Askthe EA · 14-02-2019 2:56pm

ninjarambohd wrote: »

Because I kept telling him the house needs to be repaired over the past few years but he never responded.

And they fined him €5,000? Wow.

Cuddlesworth · 14-02-2019 3:03pm

Askthe EA wrote: »

And they fined him €5,000? Wow.

Ignoring the tenant. For years.

amcalester · 14-02-2019 3:05pm

Was there an order instructing him to actually make the repairs now or what happens?

ninjarambohd · 14-02-2019 3:09pm

amcalester wrote: »

Was there an order instructing him to actually make the repairs now or what happens?

Well in the letter I received today, It did not order him to actually make the repairs now so I don't know what to do about it. Having said that I was in contact with the LL today and he has now promised to fix the problems.

rightmove · 14-02-2019 3:33pm

ninjarambohd wrote: »

Well in the letter I received today, It did not order him to actually make the repairs now so I don't know what to do about it. Having said that I was in contact with the LL today and he has now promised to fix the problems.

Can't imagine the relationship will be productive going forward. Thought rtb would order him to just fix the problems first before pulling as ball of money outta his pocket

Askthe EA · 14-02-2019 3:35pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Ignoring the tenant. For years.

I've just never heard an award so large for not carrying out maintenance. Its a solid deterrent.

rightmove · 14-02-2019 3:38pm

Askthe EA wrote: »

I've just never heard an award so large for not carrying out maintenance. Its a solid deterrent.

Rtb not better to order him to fix the issue first???

Subutai · 14-02-2019 3:47pm

rightmove wrote: »

Can't imagine the relationship will be productive going forward. Thought rtb would order him to just fix the problems first before pulling as ball of money outta his pocket

Can the RTB make an order of that nature? I could see them being concerned, certainly at adjudication stage, that such an award would leave them open to challenge. Damages are more clear cut as they award those routinely. Section 115 of the 2004 Act does give them broad latitude, but specific performance is a tricky thing.

Damages at that level are high, but not unheard of. I know that in the case of Secrii v Secrii damages of €5000 were awarded for a failure in relation to standards and maintainence of a dwelling.

Simply directing that the problem be fixed wouldn't presumably have reduced the quantum of damages anyway, given that they are aimed at compensating the tenant for the lack of maintenance.

rightmove · 14-02-2019 4:21pm

Subutai wrote: »

Can the RTB make an order of that nature? I could see them being concerned, certainly at adjudication stage, that such an award would leave them open to challenge. Damages are more clear cut as they award those routinely. Section 115 of the 2004 Act does give them broad latitude, but specific performance is a tricky thing.

Damages at that level are high, but not unheard of. I know that in the case of Secrii v Secrii damages of €5000 were awarded for a failure in relation to standards and maintainence of a dwelling.

Simply directing that the problem be fixed wouldn't presumably have reduced the quantum of damages anyway, given that they are aimed at compensating the tenant for the lack of maintenance.

Fair enough but now the ll has to compensate and fix....double whamie

Subutai · 14-02-2019 4:31pm

rightmove wrote: »

Fair enough but now the ll has to compensate and fix....double whamie

This is why it's important to know and abide by your obligations as a landlord. The tenant had to live in a place that wasn't being maintained. He should be compensated for that, and the landlord should do the maintenance that he was obliged to do anyway.

14-02-2019 4:37pm

Subutai wrote: »

This is why it's important to know and abide by your obligations as a landlord. The tenant had to live in a place that wasn't being maintained. He should be compensated for that, and the landlord should do the maintenance that he was obliged to do anyway.

LL could do a refurbishment job and if it meets the criteria, hike up the rent.

On the down side for the op, future perspective landlords will be able to type his/her name into the RTB search and this case will come up.

Subutai · 14-02-2019 4:46pm

Dav010 wrote: »

LL could do a refurbishment job and if it meets the criteria, hike up the rent.

On the down side for the op, future perspective landlords will be able to type his/her name into the RTB search and this case will come up.

He could, although the requirements aren't trivial, substantial change actually does mean a properly substantial change: https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/images/uploads/Comms%20and%20Research/RTB_Guidelines_for_good_practice_on_the_substantial_change_exemption_in_Rent_Pressure_Zones.pdf

Such victimisation for a tenant asserting their rights would be pretty poor behaviour. Nevertheless if OP has reason to be concerned that he might be subject to such victimisation it is not difficult to request the removing of the information from the database.

ninjarambohd · 14-02-2019 7:15pm

The LL has now agreed to inspect the house (well the agent working on his behalf will do this) and to carry out repairs he hadn't carried out in the past 16 years. Wondering if he carries out these repairs can he appeal about the RTB's decision and not pay the 2.7K?

Subutai · 14-02-2019 7:18pm

ninjarambohd wrote: »

The LL has now agreed to inspect the house (well the agent working on his behalf will do this) and to carry out repairs he hadn't carried out in the past 16 years. Wondering if he carries out these repairs can he appeal about the RTB's decision and not pay the 2.7K?

No. He can appeal, but having carried out the repairs alone will not reduce his damages. The damages are to compensate you for the time living there during which the repairs were not done.

He may appeal on some other ground, or just in the hopes that a tribunal will assess the damage differently.

ninjarambohd · 14-02-2019 7:23pm

Subutai wrote: »

No. He can appeal, but having carried out the repairs alone will not reduce his damages. The damages are to compensate you for the time living there during which the repairs were not done.

He may appeal on some other ground, or just in the hopes that a tribunal will assess the damage differently.

Thank you very much.

tvjunki · 14-02-2019 7:31pm

Your landlord can appeal on the basis on cannot afford to pay or do the work. The levels can be reduced. If you have not let him inspect the property in that time he can then have the fine reduced. Also you should have paid your rent so the landlord can say cannot afford to repair as tenant did not pay the rent on time or arrears have built up.
Warning...
If you do not pay your full rent on time or stop paying rent your landlord can give you 14days notice and then 28days notice of rent arrears and ask you to leave (notice to quit)and you will have to find somewhere else to live.
Your landlord could have done this before you brought him to rtb. He will definately do that now if you do not pay your rent.

You will need to find another landlord and your name will appear on rtb website.
Your landlord can the refurbish the property to substantial level that the rent in increased.

Subutai · 14-02-2019 7:33pm

tvjunki wrote: »

Your landlord can appeal on the basis on cannot afford to pay or do the work. The levels can be reduced. If you have not let him inspect the property in that time he can then have the fine reduced. Also you should have paid your rent so the landlord can say cannot afford to repair as tenant did not pay the rent on time or arrears have built up.
Warning...
If you do not pay your full rent on time or stop paying rent your landlord can give you 14days notice and then 28days notice of rent arrears and ask you to leave (notice to quit)and you will have to find somewhere else to live.
Your landlord could have done this before you brought him to rtb. He will definately do that now if you do not pay your rent.

You will need to find another landlord and your name will appear on rtb website.
Your landlord can the refurbish the property to substantial level that the rent in increased.

Inability to pay is not grounds for an appeal.

As the amount of damages greatly outweighes the level of arrears the argument that the arrears prevent him from conducting the repairs will have no success.

4ensic15 · 14-02-2019 8:25pm

tvjunki wrote: »

Your landlord can appeal on the basis on cannot afford to pay or do the work. The levels can be reduced. .

IS this a joke? The tribunal is not entitled to take into account the financial position of either landlord or tenaNT.

tvjunki · 14-02-2019 9:45pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

IS this a joke? The tribunal is not entitled to take into account the financial position of either landlord or tenaNT.

Yes. I have seen cases when this has happened. If I have a bit of time I will see if I can find an example. Have seen reduction on appeal a few years ago.

I suppose at the same time we don't know what needed to be done to justify 5k fine. Don't have full details.

Subutai · 14-02-2019 10:33pm

tvjunki wrote: »

Yes. I have seen cases when this has happened. If I have a bit of time I will see if I can find an example. Have seen reduction on appeal a few years ago.

I suppose at the same time we don't know what needed to be done to justify 5k fine. Don't have full details.

Reductions of damages (and increases in damages) are fairly common on appeal. They aren't given simply because one or the other party pleads inability to pay.

Pkiernan · 14-02-2019 10:41pm

Seems that other than paying the rent owed, the tenant was not penalised for withholding rent.

cel1798 · 20-02-2019 3:51pm

How did this take from start to finish? Was it a very long process?

ninjarambohd · 25-03-2019 1:27pm

Hi, as some may know my landlord has not been paying attention to me as a tenant. I took the case to the rtb and he promised he'd start paying attention but the rtb fined him and he had to pay the fine to me.

Anyhow, since then he still has not cut the grass yet or gave me equipment to do so. And more importantly the shower has been broken since last week 18th of March and he keeps saying I'll get it fixed etc.. But I still have no damn shower!

What can I do this time because this is getting ridiculous now and too childish.

duskyjoe · 25-03-2019 1:47pm

u could fix the shower yourself and deduct same off rent if he doesn’t fix it. Re the grass , is there a clause in the lease re the grass as otherwise this is usually the remit of the tenant. Reporting your landlord to the RTB for a shower not fixed in a week deserves total derision. Reporting the landlord is a big issue and you made it that out of something small.

Graham · 25-03-2019 1:49pm

Mod Note

Threads merged.

Claw Hammer · 25-03-2019 5:14pm

duskyjoe wrote: »

u could fix the shower yourself and deduct same off rent if he doesn’t fix it. Re the grass , is there a clause in the lease re the grass as otherwise this is usually the remit of the tenant. Reporting your landlord to the RTB for a shower not fixed in a week deserves total derision. Reporting the landlord is a big issue and you made it that out of something small.

Unless the tenant agrees, the landlord is responsible for the grass and the exterior generally.

Graham · 25-03-2019 5:33pm

It's not unusual to find that it's a condition of the lease that the tenant maintains lawns.

tvjunki · 26-03-2019 5:26pm

ninjarambohd wrote: »

Hi, as some may know my landlord has not been paying attention to me as a tenant. I took the case to the rtb and he promised he'd start paying attention but the rtb fined him and he had to pay the fine to me.

Anyhow, since then he still has not cut the grass yet or gave me equipment to do so. And more importantly the shower has been broken since last week 18th of March and he keeps saying I'll get it fixed etc.. But I still have no damn shower!

What can I do this time because this is getting ridiculous now and too childish.

Just out of interest how long have you been living in your property? Most contracts says you have to maintain the gardens if you are provided with tools to do so. To say the landlord has not cut the grass do you have a forest in the garden and why would you not look after it? You are definately not getting a reference from this landlord.

ninjarambohd · 26-03-2019 6:06pm

Well he's not doing neither. I said to him give me the tools and I'll take care of it myself, he hasn't provided that. I told him at least you maintain it, he still hasn't responded. The back garden literally looks like a scene out of a Western movie.

I solved the shower issue with him though, just thought I'd note that.

duskyjoe · 21-04-2019 2:09pm

ninjarambohd wrote: »

Well he's not doing neither. I said to him give me the tools and I'll take care of it myself, he hasn't provided that. I told him at least you maintain it, he still hasn't responded. The back garden literally looks like a scene out of a Western movie.

Do you not see the wood from the trees here- your landlord is de facto trying to get rid of you. Yes a shower is a basic need and is a requirement to be serviceable - long grass with the RTB i do t think will wash . Reporting your landlord has turned your relationship caustic imo and are you surprised ? Reporting a landlord to the RTB is a serious move and huge implications attached. That landlord wants you out now and will make life for you as awkward as possible

Azizur Rahman · 21-04-2019 9:20pm

OP, get a plumber to fix the shower and deduct the cost from the rent as another poster said. The LL is just going to drag his feet.

Graham · 21-04-2019 9:57pm

Azizur Rahman wrote: »

OP, get a plumber to fix the shower and deduct the cost from the rent as another poster said. The LL is just going to drag his feet.

1) the OP has sorted the shower issue.

2) withholding rent is not a good idea without the landlords agreement. Legally the landlord would be entitled to count the deduction as rent arrears which could give grounds for the tenancy to be terminated.

Graham · 22-04-2019 12:20pm

Mod Note

please don't suggest withholding rent. Several posts deleted.

ninjarambohd · 13-05-2019 1:30pm

Hi everyone once again. I didn't want to start a new thread as it wasn't necessary. As you all know my landlord agreed to fix the issues I had asked for during the RTB hearing back in January. Until now, he hasn't done a single thing that he promised. The house needs the grass cut or at least for him to give me the equipment to do it myself, he hasn't done it. The pipe outside needs to be fixed he hasn't done it.After paying the rent to him he promised receipts, he hasn't done that either. He promised to put a cooking hood in the kitchen and until now still nothing.

I keep writing to him about it but he doesn't seem to care a single bit. Is there anything I can do about this?

punisher5112 · 13-05-2019 1:31pm

ninjarambohd wrote: »

Hi everyone once again. I didn't want to start a new thread as it wasn't necessary. As you all know my landlord agreed to fix the issues I had asked for during the RTB hearing back in January. Until now, he hasn't done a single thing that he promised. The house needs the grass cut or at least for him to give me the equipment to do it myself, he hasn't done it. The pipe outside needs to be fixed he hasn't done it.After paying the rent to him he promised receipts, he hasn't done that either. He promised to put a cooking hood in the kitchen and until now still nothing.

I keep writing to him about it but he doesn't seem to care a single bit. Is there anything I can do about this?

Leave.

Ursus Horribilis · 13-05-2019 1:37pm

Weren't you supposed to be looking for somewhere else to rent anyway? Though you do seem to change your details from post to post.

ninjarambohd · 13-05-2019 2:02pm

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Weren't you supposed to be looking for somewhere else to rent anyway? Though you do seem to change your details from post to post.

Yes I am looking for a place and I am to move out in about 3 months, but in the meantime I am still his tenant. I am paying rent to him and he is supposed to keep up with his obligations.

punisher5112 · 13-05-2019 2:07pm

ninjarambohd wrote: »

Yes I am looking for a place and I am to move out in about 3 months, but in the meantime I am still his tenant. I am paying rent to him and he is supposed to keep up with his obligations.

Bring a case against him again and you may be compensated depending on how bad.

duskyjoe · 13-05-2019 2:26pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Bring a case against him again and you may be compensated depending on how bad.

your having a laugh....

op. i’m not saying your wrong but by hauling your landlord through the RTB, he was never going to do a tap for you again.

airy fairy · 13-05-2019 2:29pm

So obviously you've alternative accommodation made if you're leaving in 3 months.
I suggest suck it up and then leave.
Uncut grass on someone else's property isn't something you should get your knickers in a knot over if you're leaving anyway.
Let the grass grow, spend your energy on packing.
Good luck.

Fol20 · 13-05-2019 3:01pm

This guy gives all us ll a bad name

-No shower - Min requirement
-Uncut grass - This may not be a minimum requirement so may not receive compensation for this - I dont understand why someone wouldnt to provide someone a lawnmower to manage their property though. You can get a manual lawn mower for 50e(25 net)
-Extraction hood - is the hood you currently have not working? Potentially not a min requirement though
-Rent receipts - he is not obligated to provide this if you have a lease and money is being transfer electronically - I actually had a tenant in the past that disputed this with me when i had to do some research on this.

I dont know how you have survived this long with out a shower. Personally i would just move as he is not obeying the law and he is playing a very dodgy game by not listening to the RTB.

Make a note of all your communications with the ll since the RTB order. Try and communicate via text,email or post if you can. Raise another dispute with the same ll for compensation again. The ll is failing to obey the basic rights once and by still not obeying them, the RTB will take a very dim view of this again.

You have already soured relations (impossible to avoid here anyway). Already raised a dispute with RTB that can jeopardize your name towards future potential ll however doing the same thing again cant make it any worse that your current situation. The worst that can happen by submitting a second RTB dispute is you loose nothing, the best outcome is that you receive a few thousand in compensation.

These people need to be removed from the industry as they dont know what they are doing.

ninjarambohd · 13-05-2019 3:50pm

Thank you everyone for your quick responses. The thing is, I'm not looking for compensation at all as that does absolutely nothing for me. I just want the landlord to do what I ask as he promised at the court.

ninjarambohd · 13-05-2019 4:01pm

Just a quick question. If I do raise a dispute with him again and then after that he emails me and says, I'll fix stuff up for you and he does it, do I have to cancel my dispute?

Graham · 13-05-2019 4:02pm

OP, given you appear to be having almost constant problems with your landlord, I'd recommend you seek specific, qualified, independent legal advice.

Thread closed.

RTB Determanation

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