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Harsh sentence

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    #182
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Lasera wrote: »
    Has anyone actually explained what the benefits would be of putting him in jail if indeed it was a mistake?

    I think some people are just nasty and want to see pain inflicted upon others, that's why they can't actually give any benefits of putting him in jail if it was a mistake. Such people pose as moral and just, but the reality is their angry little egos want to inflict pain on others.

    People seem to be taking it as gospel that it was a mistake. He says it was but he would, wouldn’t he?

    There is quite the paucity of detail in the article. It’s not even clear whose house it happened in. I certainly can’t tell from the article whether he was telling the truth or not about it being a mistake. Can you?


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    #183
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    Around 10 years ago one my mates was having a house shin dig when his folks were away.

    I fell alseep in the boxroom. The next day 2 girls who were friends of mine said they had a look at my manhood when i was alseep because they heard stories that i was well endowed

    All good craic . However if i was offended thats sexual assault i assume ?

    It's sad that sexual assault against men is taken less seriously, but men only have (some) other men to blame for that.


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    #184
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    I think we need to read between the lines when we read articles like this.

    The article brings snippets of statements from both sides. Then a few snippets from the judge.

    These snippets make it sound like he says he made a genuine mistake. She says she felt traumatised and her trust was violated. The judge says he didn't see his wrong doing hence the sentence. Thats it.

    If you just see these snippets alone they are very much lining up a big controversy rather than trying to give enough information for someone to build an informed opinion. There are no snippets about whether his claim was credible and what the judge thought about that. Nothing about his conduct after the incident.

    A big controversy is what sells an article, what sells a newspaper. You guys need to read an article like this more carefully. What it says is just as important as what it doesn't say.


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    #185
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,620 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »
    It's sad that sexual assault against men is taken less seriously, but men only have (some) other men to blame for that.

    Shoot me down for this however it's just not the same thing.

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #186
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,123 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    retro:electro wrote: »
    That would be up to her to decide if she wanted to report on if she felt violated enough.

    No, that would be for the court system, remember that thing?


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    #187
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    Feisar wrote: »
    Shoot me down for this however it's just not the same thing.

    Are you saying that touching someone's genitals without their consent, while they sleep, is not assault?


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    #188
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    GreeBo wrote: »
    No, that would be for the court system, remember that thing?

    And how would the DPP even know about it if she didn’t report it? :confused:
    So yeah, it’s up to her.


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    #189
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,620 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »
    Are you saying that touching someone's genitals without their consent, while they sleep, is not assault?

    No, that's not what I said. How did you come to that conclusion?

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #190
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    GreeBo wrote: »
    No, that would be for the court system, remember that thing?

    The court system doesn't decide if you report something


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    #191
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    Feisar wrote: »
    No, that's not what I said. How did you come to that conclusion?

    I didn't come to any conclusion; I asked you a question because whatever point you were trying to make was unclear.


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    #192
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,123 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    Just to be clear, you don’t think the bolded is assault? I’m trying to get a handle on your thought process.

    No I don't think touching your wife/husband while the sleep is an automatic assault. There may be rare, extreme circumstances where it might, but in the vast, vast majority of cases, at least in my eyes, its not.

    Any more than my wife kissing me from behind is consent.
    Some are trying to make out that I'm equating both actions, lets be clear, I'm not, I'm equating how two "consenting" adults can do things to each other without each giving express consent for specific actions.

    If this is not the case then society as we have known it will cease to function.

    Note that this is not some carte blanche to abuse people, it should be pretty obvious in which cases it is and is not assault, and as with most things, if in doubt dont do it. Buts its ludicrous to suggest that normal behaviour is assault.


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    #193
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,620 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »
    I didn't come to any conclusion; I asked you a question because whatever point you were trying to make was unclear.

    Point: Female on male sexual assault doesn't have the same gravity as male on female.

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #194
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    Feisar wrote: »
    Point: Female on male sexual assault doesn't have the same gravity as male on female.

    Why?


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    #195
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,123 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    You don’t consider it assault. Others do. I’ve never been in a relationship where I’d be okay with what you describe. If my husband did that, we’d be through.

    In court, I wouldn’t fancy the chances of anyone who argues it’s not assault despite how depressingly long it took to acknowledge marital rape in this country.

    I think knowing intent is vital here.

    I wouldn't distinguish between one partner trying to start something as the other falls asleep from one partner waking first and trying to start something as the other (presumably) wakes up.

    This is on a different planet to one partner deriving pleasure from another while that other is asleep and there is no intent on the first partner to involve the other.


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    #196
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,123 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    People seem to be taking it as gospel that it was a mistake. He says it was but he would, wouldn’t he?

    There is quite the paucity of detail in the article. It’s not even clear whose house it happened in. I certainly can’t tell from the article whether he was telling the truth or not about it being a mistake. Can you?

    The article is short on facts, so why assume it was not a mistake versus assume it was?

    Innocent until proven guilty and all that...


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    #197
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,123 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    retro:electro wrote: »
    And how would the DPP even know about it if she didn’t report it? :confused:
    So yeah, it’s up to her.

    Still wrong.
    It's up to her to raise it, its up to the courts to decide if its an assault or not.

    Doesnt fit in with your social media lynch mob ideals (who needs facts!), but its how civilized people live in a civilized society.


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    #198
    Hoboo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,535 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »
    Why?

    Because all men are asking for it


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    #199
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,620 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »
    Why?

    I don't know, maybe:

    1. Men are generally stronger
    2. Men are evolutionarily designed to spread their seed while women had to be
    more selective.
    3. Socially allowable behavior? I used to get gropped as a young lad working in a night club. No bouncer ever threw out any offending females.

    Honestly I don't know. A hangover from the harden up, yer a man days?

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #200
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    GreeBo wrote: »
    No I don't think touching your wife/husband while the sleep is an automatic assault. There may be rare, extreme circumstances where it might, but in the vast, vast majority of cases, at least in my eyes, its not.

    Well that’s all that matters then right? As long as you don’t feel like you’re sexually assaulting someone when you clearly are, all is well.
    GreeBo wrote: »
    Buts its ludicrous to suggest that normal behaviour is assault.

    Touching people’s genitals while they sleep is normal behaviour to you?


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    #201
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,123 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    bluewolf wrote: »
    The court system doesn't decide if you report something

    Indeed, but they dont take your word that its an assault.
    They investigate an alleged assault and determine that (or not) typically during a trial.


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    #202
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,123 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    retro:electro wrote: »
    Well that’s all that matters then right? As long as you don’t feel like you’re sexually assaulting someone when you clearly are, all is well.
    Im sure thats a great rebuttal to something that someone said, I sincerely hope you find that person someday.

    Touching people’s genitals while they sleep is normal behaviour to you?

    Being intimate with my partner is normal to me, yes.:confused:


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    #203
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    retro:electro wrote: »
    That would be up to her to decide if she wanted to report on if she felt violated enough. The amount of men that need to be told in black and white that helping yourself to a sleeping woman’s genitals is unacceptable and violating is quite remarkable. Why you’d even want to us another question.
    There was a man convicted a couple of years back of having sex with his girlfriend while she was asleep (as well as drugging her to keep her asleep, and other sexual activity). While that's at the extreme end, it's eye-opening that there are people on here who seem to think that being in relationship implies some form of ongoing unspoken consent to sexual contact, conscious or not.

    It's not really rocket science. If you want to have sex with someone who's asleep, wake them up first.

    (and good luck)


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    #204
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Still wrong.
    It's up to her to raise it, its up to the courts to decide if its an assault or not.

    Doesnt fit in with your social media lynch mob ideals (who needs facts!), but its how civilized people live in a civilized society.

    Which is what I said..
    retro:electro wrote: »
    That would be up to her to decide if she wanted to report on if she felt violated enough.

    Maybe try reading my posts before you fall over yourself with outrage trying to prove me wrong.

    And it’s gas that the only time I get accused of being a feminist or part of a lynch mob on here is by men who don’t like being told they don’t have carte blanche to fondle whoever they want when they want. I mean the audacity.


  • Options
    #205
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Being intimate with my partner is normal to me, yes.:confused:

    That’s not what I asked.. ironic when you just accused me of rebutting something I wasn’t asked. I asked is touching someone’s genitals while they sleep normal behaviour to you?


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    #206
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Lasera wrote: »
    There's no way for us to know, some people seem to think even if it were a mistake he should go to jail. Ask them for the rationale and it's tumbleweeds.

    Well presumably the people in that courtroom had more information than us on which to reach their verdict. I think if it was a mistake, the sentence is harsh. But we don’t know, based on the information given in the article, that it was a mistake. Some people here have decided that it was based on the poorly-detailed article.
    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    I think we need to read between the lines when we read articles like this.

    The article brings snippets of statements from both sides. Then a few snippets from the judge.

    These snippets make it sound like he says he made a genuine mistake. She says she felt traumatised and her trust was violated. The judge says he didn't see his wrong doing hence the sentence. Thats it.

    If you just see these snippets alone they are very much lining up a big controversy rather than trying to give enough information for someone to build an informed opinion. There are no snippets about whether his claim was credible and what the judge thought about that. Nothing about his conduct after the incident.

    A big controversy is what sells an article, what sells a newspaper. You guys need to read an article like this more carefully. What it says is just as important as what it doesn't say.

    Aaah yeah, it’s already been pointed put that we don’t have all the details.


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    #207
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    GreeBo wrote: »
    No I don't think touching your wife/husband while the sleep is an automatic assault. There may be rare, extreme circumstances where it might, but in the vast, vast majority of cases, at least in my eyes, its not.

    Any more than my wife kissing me from behind is consent.
    Some are trying to make out that I'm equating both actions, lets be clear, I'm not, I'm equating how two "consenting" adults can do things to each other without each giving express consent for specific actions.

    If this is not the case then society as we have known it will cease to function.

    Note that this is not some carte blanche to abuse people, it should be pretty obvious in which cases it is and is not assault, and as with most things, if in doubt dont do it. Buts its ludicrous to suggest that normal behaviour is assault.

    In rare cases, it’d be assault? :eek:

    Oh... my... god.

    If my husband did that to me, I would consider it so. When my friend confided in her close friends about what happened to her, we all recoiled. In rare cases? I find that chilling.


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    #208
    Muckka
    Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭Muckka


    If ever I have a woman give me a reach around in bed when I haven't given her permission.

    I'm going to report her to the guard's.

    Hopefully she'll do a long stretch and I'd out her as well.

    She'll never work again and I'll make a huge deal out of it.

    More than likely I'd be getting slated for my stupidity and the third wave femminists will want me burnt on the stake...


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    #209
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Lasera wrote: »
    Each relationship is different, there would be consent in some and not in others.

    Women often touch people on the arm without consent, should that be illegal and deserve prison time? If not, why not?

    Because it's your arm not your generalia. Do you really need the difference between them to be explained?


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    #210
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Bizarre that frequently people would almost pop a vein if someone questioned the validity of a not guilty verdict in a sex assault case, yet there's no problem questioning the validity of a guilty verdict.

    Woman gets assaulted by a man in her bed as she sleeps, suffers terror, trauma and betrayal from a person she considered a brother, he's tried and found guilty by a jury but will serve a year or less in prison after showing absolutely no remorse at the suffering his victim has felt from his actions....and in some responses its made out like he's the victim here?

    AH is nothing if not predictable lately.


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    #211
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Doesnt fit in with your social media lynch mob ideals (who needs facts!), but its how civilized people live in a civilized society.

    Civilised society? Where unremorseful vagina grabbers are let off the hook to roam the streets and continue their hobby?


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