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BEEP (Beef Environmental Efficiency Pilot Scheme)

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123578

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    #122
    bogman_bass
    Registered Users Posts: 5,057 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    A grand for a days work? Sign me up!


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    #123
    croot
    Registered Users Posts: 571 ✭✭✭croot


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    This is the important bit;
    Application window for inclusion in the pilot is 4 February and 22 February 2019.

    I see you also need a Tax Compliance Cert from Revenue before you can be paid. First time I've ever seen this.
    You always needed it for forestry grant. Takes five minutes if you have revenue online.


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    #124
    tanko
    Registered Users Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭tanko


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    This is the important bit;
    Application window for inclusion in the pilot is 4 February and 22 February 2019.

    I see you also need a Tax Compliance Cert from Revenue before you can be paid. First time I've ever seen this.

    Im pretty sure you had to be tax compliant to get a grant for a shed.


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    #125
    sonnybill
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭sonnybill


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    This is the important bit;
    Application window for inclusion in the pilot is 4 February and 22 February 2019.

    I see you also need a Tax Compliance Cert from Revenue before you can be paid. First time I've ever seen this.

    Where is application on agfood ?


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    #126
    TooOldBoots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 604 ✭✭✭TooOldBoots


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    This is the important bit;
    Application window for inclusion in the pilot is 4 February and 22 February 2019.

    I see you also need a Tax Compliance Cert from Revenue before you can be paid. First time I've ever seen this.
    This is going to become the norm for all payments in the future

    croot wrote: »
    You always needed it for forestry grant. Takes five minutes if you have revenue online.
    tanko wrote: »
    Im pretty sure you had to be tax compliant to get a grant for a shed.
    Not if the grant value was less than 15k. But this seems to be chaging as there are too many non tax compliant farmers in the system


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    #127
    mayota
    Registered Users Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭mayota


    Do you need to be in BDGP to join BEEP?


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    #128
    Sugarbowl
    Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭Sugarbowl


    mayota wrote: »
    Do you need to be in BDGP to join BEEP?

    No you don't have to be in BDGP


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    #129
    Sugarbowl
    Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭Sugarbowl


    Do dairy calves qualify? Say if you purchased Charolais heifers from a dairy herd? And they were off a beef bull?


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    #130
    charolais0153
    Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    Sugarbowl wrote: »
    Do dairy calves qualify? Say if you purchased Charolais heifers from a dairy herd? And they were off a beef bull?

    Qualify for wgat?..u need to have a suckler cow and calf


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    #131
    Sugarbowl
    Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭Sugarbowl


    charolais0153 wrote: »
    Qualify for wgat?..u need to have a suckler cow and calf

    Got ya! You need to have the cow and the calf as a pair. That's all I was wondering!


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    #132
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    C'mon, read the Terms & Conditions in the link posted a bit back. Open to all Suckler Farmers. You don't have to be in the Genomics Scheme (BDGP).

    One thing for certain in all of this. The powers that be, don't want the suckler farmers to die away. Throw them a bit of loose change every now and then and you'll keep the pulse ticking over. Crazy to think we are the only worker in the whole chain that doesn't get paid for a day's work.:mad:

    More info here from the IFA;
    https://www.ifa.ie/apply-for-new-e40-suckler-cow-beep-pilot-scheme/

    And here;
    https://www.thatsfarming.com/news/beep-jan-2019

    'When I was a boy we were serfs, slave minded. Anyone who came along and lifted us out of that belittling, I looked on them as Gods.' - Dan Breen



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    #133
    Farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Farmer


    Did anyone do the maths on the calf numbers. With a €20M budget, is it possible we'll only bet half payment if everyone applies?


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    #134
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,200 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Farmer wrote: »
    Did anyone do the maths on the calf numbers. With a €20M budget, is it possible we'll only bet half payment if everyone applies?
    20 million his 40calf for 500k calves. I think there is about 700k suckler cows. AFAIK yo will have to weight calves and cows more than once. Lads with small numbers less than 10 will not apply. You would imagine that at most 600k suckler cows and calves would enter the scheme that would mean a payment of 33 euro/ cow and calf.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #135
    charolais0153
    Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    20 million his 40calf for 500k calves. I think there is about 700k suckler cows. AFAIK yo will have to weight calves and cows more than once. Lads with small numbers less than 10 will not apply. You would imagine that at most 600k suckler cows and calves would enter the scheme that would mean a payment of 33 euro/ cow and calf.
    These schemes are never oversubscribed. Shweep wepfare scheme was 10er a ewe dpr stiff the majority of farms were doing. Only 65 %subscribed iirc


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    #136
    Sugarbowl
    Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭Sugarbowl


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    20 million his 40calf for 500k calves. I think there is about 700k suckler cows. AFAIK yo will have to weight calves and cows more than once. Lads with small numbers less than 10 will not apply. You would imagine that at most 600k suckler cows and calves would enter the scheme that would mean a payment of 33 euro/ cow and calf.

    Why would you have to weigh cows and calves more than once?


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    #137
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,200 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Sugarbowl wrote: »
    Why would you have to weigh cows and calves more than once?

    To see the weight gain of the calves and see if a cow is putting weigh on her own back or on the calf. You weight at weaning to get the calf to cow weight ratio.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #138
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    The sad thing is most farmers won't bother with this. They'll say for €40 it's not worth their while....and they are usually the ones that need it most.

    'When I was a boy we were serfs, slave minded. Anyone who came along and lifted us out of that belittling, I looked on them as Gods.' - Dan Breen



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    #139
    coolshannagh28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭coolshannagh28


    These schemes are an insult to farmers and should be boycotted .


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    #140
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,200 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    The sad thing is most farmers won't bother with this. They'll say for €40 it's not worth their while....and they are usually the ones that need it most.

    These schemes in general are only worth it to lads with 20+ cows. A lad with 10 cows is looking at 400 euro less scales hire if he gets the full amount. If it is linear reduced to 33/cow he is back to 330. Take in the fact for ten cows he might have only nine calves so 300-360 euro before paying for rent of scales. When you consider that the average suckler herd size is below 20 cows you can see the issue more clearly. More than likely there will not be a significent linear reduction but for lads with smaller numbers unless you have access to a scales you do not have to pay for I can see where they would be reluctant to commit to it.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #141
    Never wrestle with pigs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭Never wrestle with pigs


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    The sad thing is most farmers won't bother with this. They'll say for €40 it's not worth their while....and they are usually the ones that need it most.

    It's not worth it patsy, it's worth just under 1500 to me and not a hope that I'm doing it. I get the weight of my calves at weanlings every year and know what's preforming and what's not. If a pedigree cow gets hurt I'm down more than the payment.

    I just see it as a stick to beat us with to get the cow size down for their carbon emissions. All about the stars. Money totally wasted imo. Best thing that could happen is nobody applys. It's insulting the crap they are coming out with and a few crumbs to throw at you.


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    #142
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    The sad thing is most farmers won't bother with this. They'll say for €40 it's not worth their while....and they are usually the ones that need it most.
    Tbh, Patsy, I'm very so so about entering this. I've still not been paid for the BDGP scheme and nobody could tell me why mine was delayed until I was called for an inspection.



    Now, it's not a huge hassle to put in for it, I have scales so no extra costs, but I'm not sure the aggravation is worth it unless there was a guarantee of payment and deductions in the next BPS for discrepancy.


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    #143
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    I think there's way more to this than keeping down the weights of cows. If we can proove we have the lowest beef carbon footprint in Europe, then all this talk about our increase in carbon emissions due to increasing cow numbers can be rubbished. No point reducing numbers here in Ireland and increasing somewhere else in Europe, at greater emissions, to make up the difference.

    'When I was a boy we were serfs, slave minded. Anyone who came along and lifted us out of that belittling, I looked on them as Gods.' - Dan Breen



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    #144
    Never wrestle with pigs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭Never wrestle with pigs


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    I think there's way more to this than keeping down the weights of cows. If we can proove we have the lowest beef carbon footprint in Europe, then all this talk about our increase in carbon emissions due to increasing cow numbers can be rubbished. No point reducing numbers here in Ireland and increasing somewhere else in Europe, at greater emissions, to make up the difference.

    Problem is that our boys in suits are not on our side patsy. They want to squash the suckler cow. Biggest mistake was not telling lads about terminal traits. Walk into any weanling sales and look at the quality, is shocking and getting worse. Make the quality of the cattle So bad that they all go broke and exit.

    Imo fcuk the stars and bread quality. If they want to pay subs for information they better deliver allot better Value than they are now and the millions that they are getting. I would much rather see money be invested into proper environment projects accross farms and proper safety project. Not spend 2/3 k and a bit of vat back.


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    #145
    bogman_bass
    Registered Users Posts: 5,057 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »
    It's not worth it patsy, it's worth just under 1500 to me and not a hope that I'm doing it. I get the weight of my calves at weanlings every year and know what's preforming and what's not. If a pedigree cow gets hurt I'm down more than the payment.

    I just see it as a stick to beat us with to get the cow size down for their carbon emissions. All about the stars. Money totally wasted imo. Best thing that could happen is nobody applys. It's insulting the crap they are coming out with and a few crumbs to throw at you.

    Where else are you going to get €1500 for one or two days work?

    Sometimes I wonder if lads are living in the real world at all


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    #146
    manjou
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭manjou


    I am going to see what the penalties are for differance in weights etc are. if all they are is you don't get paid beep money and don't get penalized from any other schemes then going to apply but if it could affect other schemes going to not join . 40 euros would be a bonus if got but not worth if could affect other schemes.


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    #147
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    bogman_bass wrote: »
    Where else are you going to get €1500 for one or two days work?

    Sometimes I wonder if lads are living in the real world at all

    They should use reverse psychology, only allow a few thousand to join. They all be mad to join then.:D

    'When I was a boy we were serfs, slave minded. Anyone who came along and lifted us out of that belittling, I looked on them as Gods.' - Dan Breen



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    #148
    Never wrestle with pigs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭Never wrestle with pigs


    bogman_bass wrote: »
    Where else are you going to get €1500 for one or two days work?

    Sometimes I wonder if lads are living in the real world at all

    More handling, driving stock mad and risking injury. I know exactly what they will do. They'll say cows are to big, drop star's and suddenly your bulls are worth a thousand less. No thanks.


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    #149
    coolshannagh28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭coolshannagh28


    This is another typical mickey mouse scheme , there will be a cost in either hiring or buying the scales and they will require calibration , there will be a cost in the supervision going back to either an advisor or Teagasc , there is risk to man and beast every time cattle are rounded up and put through a crush particularly where an outfarm is involved or stock that are not used to handling .
    There is now a proliferation of these schemes and I do wonder how long it will be before we go back to a pre 03 situation and just amalgamate them all .


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    #150
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Ashbourne Meats all along, were paying a bonus on all Pedigree Registered Limousin stock. They now only want heifers under 350Kg now. Nobody wants these heavy carcasses anymore.

    https://www.irishlimousin.com/2019/01/29/ashbourne-meats-limousin-bonus-heifers-only-from-4th-feb/

    'When I was a boy we were serfs, slave minded. Anyone who came along and lifted us out of that belittling, I looked on them as Gods.' - Dan Breen



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    #151
    K9
    Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭K9


    Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »
    Problem is that our boys in suits are not on our side patsy. They want to squash the suckler cow. Biggest mistake was not telling lads about terminal traits. Walk into any weanling sales and look at the quality, is shocking and getting worse. Make the quality of the cattle So bad that they all go broke and exit.

    Imo fcuk the stars and bread quality. If they want to pay subs for information they better deliver allot better Value than they are now and the millions that they are getting. I would much rather see money be invested into proper environment projects accross farms and proper safety project. Not spend 2/3 k and a bit of vat back.

    Not sure what thread it was in but you were saying your best cow(great milk and fertile)was your worst looking one. Are you not contradicting yourself here?

    What do you mean about not telling lads about terminal traits?


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