Manager deducting drive offs from wages

Kmgirl · 25-01-2019 01:21PM #1

I work in a petrol station where people sometimes drive off without paying for petrol or diesel. My manager wants us (the staff) now to start paying for the price of the drive offs through deducting it from our wages.
So if someone fills up their car with 50 euro of diesel and I'm working at that time, 50 euro will be deducted from my wages for that week. Myself and my co-workers are only on minimum wage so would I be right in that money for drive offs can't be taken from our wages because that means we would be payed below minimum wage for the week?. People fill up their cars and then pay in the shop-there is no option to prepay.

WrigleysExtra · 25-01-2019 01:23PM

Straight up illegal, report him to the wrc.

SteM · 25-01-2019 01:25PM

Even if you weren't on minimum wage I don't see how he could legally do this. How are you supposed to stop drive offs? You work in a petrol station, the car is outside. Does he expect you to chase after them? Tell him to install a camera and report drive offs to the gardai and stop with his nonsense.

Seth Brundle · 25-01-2019 01:26PM

Aside from what WrigleysExtra has posted, by what means does the manager expect you to prevent this customer behaviour?
Are you expected to stop the car somehow?
presumably the owner has not implemented a way to prevent this so how can you implement it?
As you're sprinting down the road after the car, are you meant to leave the till behind or bring it with you (so nobody steals from it)?

turdball · 25-01-2019 01:27PM

Even if you were on 80K a year it's still illegal. Report him if he does actually do it. Might just want ye to take a better look out(Know it's impossible if your serving customers behind the counter)
Might have just been having a bad day

nuac · 25-01-2019 01:29PM

In the far off days when being a forecourt attendant was an actual job there might have been some justification
Hard to accept a counter assistant to accept responsibility for drive offs

cgcsb · 25-01-2019 01:30PM

Tell him to not even dream of it if he has any sense at all. If he attempts to do it you'll be getting a lovely payout from him through the courts, much more than he'd get from attempting to steal your money.

Kmgirl · 25-01-2019 01:30PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Aside from what WrigleysExtra has posted, by what means does the manager expect you to prevent this customer behaviour?
Are you expected to stop the car somehow?
presumably the owner has not implemented a way to prevent this so how can you implement it?

He thinks by asking every customer "do you have petrol or diesel" that everyone will it will remind customers to pay. The problem is some people straight out lie. AND some people drive off without even stepping foot in the shop. He said he can look back at the cameras and tell whether we have asked the customer do they have petrol or diesel but there's no sound on the cameras??

trellheim · 25-01-2019 01:35PM

Wage deductions have to be listed on the payslip otherwise illegal

Deductions from the pay packet

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1991/act/25/section/5/enacted/en/html#sec5

in case the deduction is in respect of compensation for loss or damage sustained by the employer as a result of an act or omission of the employee, the deduction is of an amount not exceeding the amount of the loss or the cost of the damage, and

Be well and win · 25-01-2019 01:40PM

Its not as simple as some people on here are making out. Under the Payment of Wages act, an employer may make a deduction from wages when they have suffered loss through your fault. For example, if you broke something, then legally the employer might be able to deduct the cost from your wages.

However, if the employer wants to do this
It must be stated in your contract of employment that he can do this- your first point should be to check this.
It must be fair and reasonable, in this case your employer is asking you to stop a crime from happening, I would argue that this is not fair and reasonable as he is asking you to physically endanger yourself.
he informs you of the deduction in writing

I would have thought your manager here has a wrong notion as to what he can and cant do.However if your wages are deducted and the above criteria are not met, make a claim via the WRC, forms are available on line

jimmycrackcorm · 25-01-2019 01:48PM

Be well and win wrote:

However, if the employer wants to do this It must be stated in your contract of employment that he can do this- your first point should be to check this. It must be fair and reasonable, in this case your employer is asking you to stop a crime from happening, I would argue that this is not fair and reasonable as he is asking you to physically endanger yourself. he informs you of the deduction in writing

The onus is on the employer to also ensure that precautions are taken to prevent this.

I. E. The employee cannot prevent outside drive offs and could suggest to the manager that prepayments dhould be taken instead (happens at night)

Kmgirl · 25-01-2019 01:49PM

Be well and win wrote: »

Its not as simple as some people on here are making out. Under the Payment of Wages act, an employer may make a deduction from wages when they have suffered loss through your fault. For example, if you broke something, then legally the employer might be able to deduct the cost from your wages.

However, if the employer wants to do this
It must be stated in your contract of employment that he can do this- your first point should be to check this.
It must be fair and reasonable, in this case your employer is asking you to stop a crime from happening, I would argue that this is not fair and reasonable as he is asking you to physically endanger yourself.
he informs you of the deduction in writing

I would have thought your manager here has a wrong notion as to what he can and cant do.However if your wages are deducted and the above criteria are not met, make a claim via the WRC, forms are available on line

He hasn't started deducting from wages yet, it's starting next week. Surely drive offs aren't "fair and reasonable". If the person never steps foot inside the shop and fills their car with petrol without paying- it hardly can be considered fair or reasonable/legal to take it from our wages. In the case where the customer comes into the shop but doesn't pay for petrol or diesel, the manager claims he can tell by CCTV whether we asked them if they have petrol or diesel but there's no sound on the cameras. Surely, that isn't legal either because we couldn't physically be heard on camera asking the customer if they had petrol or diesel.

road_high · 25-01-2019 01:49PM

You’d effectively be working for free at that rate- don’t tolerate this for a second- absolute piss take.

turdball · 25-01-2019 01:50PM

Kmgirl wrote: »

He thinks by asking every customer "do you have petrol or diesel" that everyone will it will remind customers to pay. The problem is some people straight out lie. AND some people drive off without even stepping foot in the shop. He said he can look back at the cameras and tell whether we have asked the customer do they have petrol or diesel but there's no sound on the cameras??

Sounds like he just wants ye to be on top of your game to be honest. Petty threat.

If he does go through with it report him. If your there under a year I wouldn't confront him.

aido79 · 25-01-2019 01:54PM

Deduct your services from his petrol station and find a new job for him even suggesting this.

Kmgirl · 25-01-2019 01:56PM

turdball wrote: »

Sounds like he just wants ye to be on top of your game to be honest. Petty threat.

If he does go through with it report him. If your there under a year I wouldn't confront him.

He plans on going through with it as far as I am aware. I was off yesterday and he asked at least one member of staff who is there a relatively short length of time to sign a statement saying drive offs will be deducted from wages. The member of staff voiced his concerns with the manager and said she didn't agree with it but they felt pressurised into signing it. The manager will be asking the rest of us to sign up for this contract/statement too in the coming days.

meathstevie · 25-01-2019 01:59PM

One can not be held responsible for the crimes of another, not in a week of Sunday's. The employer is trying to make someone else compensate the company for the potential crime of another. Since when has the petrol station manager been appointed a Judge of the District Court since that's the lowest tier of the court system that deals with thefts.

It would be a different story if employee errors or misconduct have caused the loss. There could well be civil or criminal liability issues in such circumstances.

In most petrol stations nowadays the procedure is that the till operator activates the pump when the customer wants to fuel up. If that customer subsequently drives away without paying as they are legally obliged to do is something the employee has no control over.

Zenify · 25-01-2019 02:00PM

I heard this before from someone working at a station. They had a button to push to release the fuel to the pump. If the car had a plate visible they would push the button. Sometimes they would he busy dealing with other customers and if they pushed it for a car without a plate and it drove off it would be deducted from their wages. Fair enough I think but not a job I would sign myself up for.

refusetolose · 25-01-2019 02:03PM

dont sign it

turdball · 25-01-2019 02:05PM

Kmgirl wrote: »

He plans on going through with it as far as I am aware. I was off yesterday and he asked at least one member of staff who is there a relatively short length of time to sign a statement saying drive offs will be deducted from wages. The member of staff voiced his concerns with the manager and said she didn't agree with it but they felt pressurised into signing it. The manager will be asking the rest of us to sign up for this contract/statement too in the coming days.

Okay that's a different story, don't sign it and report him.

gimli2112 · 25-01-2019 02:07PM

Do RTE have a kind of watchdog / consumer affairs type programme? I'm sure they'd love to do a piece on this guy. As said earlier I'd be looking elsewhere for employment, if you agree to this what's next?

TeaBagMania · 25-01-2019 02:26PM

turn off all the pumps and make everyone pay or leave a deposit first. When the complaints start to roll in give them the managers mobile

Ireland is one of the few countries that actually allow you to fuel before paying, you will never see that in the states

Dakota Dan · 25-01-2019 02:40PM

TeaBagMania wrote: »

turn off all the pumps and make everyone pay or leave a deposit first. When the complaints start to roll in give them the managers mobile

Ireland is one of the few countries that actually allow you to fuel before paying, you will never see that in the states

Are
I suppose if you are filling your car like I always do it’s impossible to know exactly how much it will take. I thought with cameras that drive offs were a thing of the past.

Nothing surprises me now · 25-01-2019 02:45PM

Is the station privately owned/leased? If part of a group, contact staff at other stations to discuss this. I worked in petrol station for a number of years when I was younger and there were drive offs but we were never asked to pay. Our manager knew how we couldn't watch everyone and work a till at the same time. I'm sure supermarkets like Tesco, Dunnes don't deduct from staff wages despite the stealing that goes on; they also employ staff to watch potential thieves. I wouldn't sign the form.

shutup · 25-01-2019 02:47PM

Manager is a prick. This is illegal.
Immediately contact him and make it clear that you will not stand for this. Don’t do anything else before contacting him.
If he tries to fire you in the future you could claim it was over this dispute and would look like an unfair dismissal.

TeaBagMania · 25-01-2019 02:47PM

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Are
I suppose if you are filling your car like I always do it’s impossible to know exactly how much it will take.

but you have a general idea right?
for example, i know my truck when near empty can hold upwards of $70 worth of fuel so i would leave a deposit of $80 or more with the cashier.
when im finished fueling i walk inside and collect my change.

yeah it sux but thats what society low lifes have done to us

just FYI id say about 99% of peeps here in the states pay at the pump with their CC

vintagecosmos · 25-01-2019 02:51PM

This was on liveline a while ago I think.

Basically it came down to -

If someone straight up drove off there was no deduction.

If a staff member served a customer and didnt ask "petrol or diesel", then they were deducted.

Kmgirl · 25-01-2019 03:24PM

vintagecosmos wrote: »

This was on liveline a while ago I think.

Basically it came down to -

If someone straight up drove off there was no deduction.

If a staff member served a customer and didnt ask "petrol or diesel", then they were deducted.

It's very hard to prove with CCTV whether a person asked "Do you have petrol or diesel". Some customers also lie to staff and say they don't have petrol or diesel when it is sometimes found out later that they did have petrol/diesel.

cbreeze · 25-01-2019 03:27PM

This practice is not confined to petrol stations. People who work as servers in restaurants are deducted if the people they serve slip out before paying.

Poll Dubh · 25-01-2019 03:45PM

Does he plan on deducting the cost price of the fuel or the full retail price so that he can still make a profit?

The fuel costs him less than half what he is charging dues to taxes and profit margin - https://www.theaa.ie/blog/1159/

Azizur Rahman · 25-01-2019 04:07PM

I'd refuse to sign. If the boss keeps pressuring you then quit. Then take a case for constructive dismissal. Hit him where it hurts, in the pocket.

Manager deducting drive offs from wages

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