Brexit Discussion Thread VI

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

In what way? The last time I looked Britain had fewer MEPs per head of population of any EU country.

Probably need to look again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apportionment_in_the_European_Parliament

It also helped that Ireland and other countries usually voted along with the UK as we had similar interests which gave the UK an advantage when voting.

Admittedly the UKIP MEPs were pretty much useless but that was Britain's choice and not the fault of the EU.

downcow wrote: »

The answer is None
The majority of our nation voted to leave. We are a democracy. Our region has had massive economical support from our nation (UK). We would be absolutely insane to separate and go with a nation (ireland) which even according th sf has showed little or no interest in our wellbeing over last 100 years.
I would rather stay with our nation of 70million people than dive into the unknown with a nation of 5 million and reliant on Eu which is heading into very difficult times
Does that help you?

Thing is, were the backstop to come into effect, NI would still be part of the UK, but like a special economic zone. You will still trade with the UK, and you get full access to the EU market and EU rights in addition to those you enjoy as a UK citizen. Put simply, the backstop maintains the status quo and would likely provide a boost for Northern Ireland too..

No Backstop No Deal Brexit with Hard Border is the absolute worst outcome for everybody, especially Northern Ireland and for a multitiude of reasons. Chief among these would be the impact on society and the strong likelihood of violence, but the economy will be smashed too.

Cross border manufacturing/ processing/ production destroyed, cross border trade ruined, huge impact on agriculture and on bloated public service, the latter of which will be hammered through loss of EU/ UK funding.

Ultimately though, a bad Brexit is a huge fracture in all our relationships and is a very negative thing, not to be able to find a deal and to find agreement. No one wants to see border posts on this island, to see patrols and guards and soldiers. To breath life into sectarian nonsense.

Either revoking A50 or having Brexit and taking the May Deal would avoid all these unwelcome repercussions. It would make a United Ireland less likely and 'strengthen the union' while safeguarding the economy and peoples futures. You are taking a giant leap into the dark here and that is hugely dangerous and irresponsible, cos we are tied to you.

downcow wrote: »

The answer is None
The majority of our nation voted to leave. We are a democracy. Our region has had massive economical support from our nation (UK). We would be absolutely insane to separate and go with a nation (ireland) which even according th sf has showed little or no interest in our wellbeing over last 100 years.
I would rather stay with our nation of 70million people than dive into the unknown with a nation of 5 million and reliant on Eu which is heading into very difficult times
Does that help you?

Lets be clear here the vote was barely 52 to 48 to leave but no details were provided on HOW to leave. The same vote has multiple investigations into the leave campaign based on evidence of campaign finance breaches AND meddling by Russia (Brexit was a trial run for the US elections the same year). In any other country this would have lead to either a rerun or annulment since the campaign was skewed to one side by breaching the rules but not only has it continued but now risks serious damage because those in Wesminster cannot cop on and be realistic.

Your region currently has support not just from the rest of the UK but the EU as well, what do you think will happen when that EU funding is cut off? That the UK can just magically replace all of it? The same party thats been in power several years and presided over continuous austerity? What of the value of those funds in the event of a Hard Brexit? Your looking at up to another 25% loss of Sterlings value in a crashout scenario on top of the 33% its dropped since before the referendum. Your currency would have less value than the Euro that will hammer you on anything that has to be imported or whos components have to be imported for example. Then consider you would see local trade essentially collapse overnight because trade becomes severely restricted over the border?

You also say the EU is heading into very difficult times based on what exactly? If anything the UK is basically on course to crash out and utterly wreck itself socially, politically and economically. You say youd rather stay with your nation BUT what about the rest of the population in NI. You really think THEY'LL want to stay if offered the choice between stability and economic prosperity and being tied to an utterly dysfunctional country with paralysed politics and complete lack of interest in regions like NI?

If you want my opinion you basically need to clear your beliefs about the EU and focus solely on facts and hard information and utterly ignore the baseless opinions and baseless statements of the likes of Boris, Moggs and even Sammy Shytestirrer. They're liars and chancers and all they're doing is misleading you into a trap. Your union is built on the support of its people, Brexit is literally throwing acid on that support and a hard brexit is the most corrosive of all because once people find themselves poorer and struggling and buisnesses closing and people losing their jobs they'll start asking real questions about what that union is still worth expecially when they start asking if a UI is of more value to THEM and facts are presented that benefit them in that scenario. If the WA isnt acceptable then Brexit simply cannot happen because if it does you will have to face the possibility of a UI being a reality and it will be because of it and the DUPs utter stupidity.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It was always IAE (RR sold their stake in it but are still a supplier) or CFM on the 320ceo family, the 320neo is CFM or P&W, the neo engine options were chosen years ago.

330 ceo is GE, P&W or RR. 330 neo are all RR Trents

350 also all have RR engines. Again a decision made years ago.

380 is EA or RR, according to wikipedia it's about 45%:55%, RR ahead.

220 is P&W. Not an Airbus design, Bombardier made that decision years ago.

To say Brexit has had any impact on engine choices for any model produced in the foreseeable future is a red herring I'm afraid.

You're right, apparently it's actually wing manufacturing.

Appearance money was mentioned in an earlier post. The politician who said, f**k business, had no problem standing in front of a JCB digger and spout his nonsense, all for fee of £10K.
David Davis takes a fee of £5K /month from the same company.
These are the principled politicians telling the UK people what's good for them.

Listening to question time...the Brits are fair delusional

funkey_monkey wrote: »

7 out of the 10 constituencies here that are represented by DUP voted to leave. Only Belfast North (Dodds), Belfast South (Pengelly) and Derry (Campbell) voted to remain.
The only Remain constituency represented by a remain MP is North Down (Hermon).

Despite what we all say about the DUP (and noone hates them more than me), they are representing their voters who voted to leave - and doing it badly in my opinion. It is not their fault that the remain regions voted in abstentionists who are not representing them during this crucial phase of parliament.

The missing 7 SF MPs could have negated the influence of the DUP - actually they would have, as the DUP would not have been king makers.

People voted for SF knowing that they would not be there in parliament. Tactically, it was an error by nationalists as the stoops would have taken their place and been a counter balance to the DUP.

BREXIT sucks. I can sometimes even sense the divisions arising at work. Talk of being forced into a UI, etc. People talking half truths and lies. Something I've never encountered in my previous 18 years of work.

The question on the ballot paper was not SF or DUP, it was Remain or Leave.
The majority (across the party divide) voted to Remain.

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Listening to question time...the Brits are fair delusional

They're screwed basically.....talking up No Deal as if they haven't a care in the world.

aindriu80 wrote: »

What do you make of the polish leader Mateusz Morawiecki having a go at Ireland :

https://www.independent.ie/business/gavin-mcloughlin-leo-varadkar-was-brutally-undercut-by-his-polish-counterpart-in-front-of-the-worlds-most-influential-people-37745441.html

That country is starting to stink a lot for me

Just google and do some research on the Polish state's role in the dismemberment of Czechoslovakia in 1938. They single handy blocked the Russians coming to the Czechs aid, thereby permitting the Nazi invasion.

So the apple doesn't fall far from the tree I'm afraid...and blaming the Germans for everything in WW2 is a convenient way to other to shirk their responsibility.

They're a package deal....

Strazdas wrote: »

They're screwed basically.....talking up No Deal as if they haven't a care in the world.

Your one suewellan is literally lying through her teeth...no deal will mean no delays at Calais or Dover...

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Your one suewellan is literally lying through her teeth...no deal will mean no delays at Calais or Dover...

They all think they are at a football match and it will be over after 90 minutes.

Suella Braverman?? hasn't said anything of truth, only cheap rabble rousing.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They all think they are at a football match and it will be over after 90 minutes.

Suella Braverman?? hasn't said anything of truth, only cheap rabble rousing.

That's her, I think she has lied 90% of the time she spoke. Find it interesting that she is pro brexit, control our borders...

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The Polish Government are furious with Ireland at the moment because our judiciary have been very publicly calling out the Polish Government for implementing some very dodgy and authoritarian judicial reforms. This has resulted in the issue being raised at the highest levels in the EU, resulting in the possibility that Poland could be kicked out of various EU justice mechanisms such as the European Arrest Warrant and so on. They are having a go at us at every opportunity. Sad really.

pathetic is the way i'd put it. No probs to us though as its lilke water off a duck's back.

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Yes, I am well aware of that. I was one of those who voted to remain.
The point I am making is that it is not up to the DUP to represent those who voted for another party - one that stands on an abstentionist manifesto. Their voices are not being heard due to they themselves voting SF.
The DUP, for reasons best known to themselves, stood on a leave platform, and that is what they are following through on.

I don't think you are. It wasn't a vote to support a particular party.
The 'voice' is quite clear - 56% of the people of northern Ireland wish to remain in the EU.

funkey_monkey wrote: »

The missing 7 SF MPs could have negated the influence of the DUP - actually they would have, as the DUP would not have been king makers.

Why does this nonsense still persist!? I thought it was debunked several threads ago.

It isn't like we even need to discuss the political impact SF may have on the middle ground, this is basic f**king arithmetic.

If nothing else changed, and SF went to Westminster, and stood in direct opposition to every government position, DUP would STILL be kingmakers.

Without SF in Westminster, the government have a majority of 13 seats. If every elected SF representative took their seat, that would reduce the government's parliamentary majority to 6.

If we consider the motion of no confidence vote, which passed by 19 votes, even if SF voting one way hadn't convinced anyone to change sides, that leaves a majority of 12.

This isn't rocket science, it just requires basic reading ability instead of parroting off blatant mistruths without checking them for yourself.

This is without even opening the can of worms as to how much it could be seen as a betrayal of those who voted for SF based on their abstentionist platform. I'm pretty certain that there weren't a significant number of their voters who were unaware of this part.