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Battery storage

  • 19-01-2019 12:36am
    #1
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,833 ✭✭✭


    Hey folks

    Ive only seen batteries for internal placement....are there any available that could be placed outside (eg on a side entrance wall)?


Comments

  • #2
    ruairihev
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭ruairihev


    If you don't have space inside then I would put the batteries in an enclosure if placing outside. The enclosure would keep them from being exposed to the elements and it would also protect them from accidental damage or intentional damage.

    Depending on the size and type of battery then hanging them on a wall could be a challenge due to weight. Placing them on the ground might be the best option. For me, even if the manufacturer said that the battery could be placed outside I'd still place it in an enclosure as batteries are generally an expensive component that you should do your best to protect.

    Any particular type of battery that you are talking about or what you need to use it for?


  • #3
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,833 ✭✭✭daheff


    ruairihev wrote: »
    If you don't have space inside then I would put the batteries in an enclosure if placing outside. The enclosure would keep them from being exposed to the elements and it would also protect them from accidental damage or intentional damage.

    Depending on the size and type of battery then hanging them on a wall could be a challenge due to weight. Placing them on the ground might be the best option. For me, even if the manufacturer said that the battery could be placed outside I'd still place it in an enclosure as batteries are generally an expensive component that you should do your best to protect.

    Any particular type of battery that you are talking about or what you need to use it for?

    thanks for that. Never even thought of building an enclosure for the battery- but i guess there would be a need for airflow around them?

    In terms of battery weight- i guess an external wall would be as good as an internal one for holding the weight?


    Not thinking of any in particular...but idea would be to try to harvest either PV energy during the day /charge up on nightrate and use stored energy during the day.


  • #4
    ruairihev
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭ruairihev


    Depends on the type of battery really with regards to air flow, a non sealed battery would need some where to expel gas, a sealed battery not so much of a problem as it generally doesn't expel gas, a lithium battery is more concerned with temperature, anything less than 0 degrees and your lithium should not be charged.

    A 230Ah lead acid battery could weigh 60kg so not ideal for hanging on a wall, again I'd put them on the ground or in an enclosure supported from the ground. A lithium battery of similar capacity would be about half the weight.

    If it's your intention to cycle the battery daily then Lithium is probably your best way to proceed. They can be discharged by 80% (20% capacity remaining) and have a round trip efficiency of about 92%. Lead acid shouldn't really be discharged below 30% (70% capacity remaining) if you want to see long life out of them. Their round trip efficiency is about 80%. Round trip efficiency means when they go from fully charged to empty back to fully charged. Lithium does this more efficiently which means that it doesn't waste as much power as a lead acid when recharging, this is important in an off-grid situation as you need to take advantage of all the power you produce. The above are generalisations, it all depends on the loads applied to the batteries, how fast you can recharge them and a few other things.

    Hope that helps


  • #5
    quentingargan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭quentingargan


    Batteries are very valuable, and the leads for them are expensive if you are running the cables over a long distance. If you are looking at Lithium, some modular units can be put into a standard 19" networking rack in the house - each battery is typically about 400mm deep and less than 100mm high.


  • #6
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    I am just going onto a night rate so will be able to provide some data on this option. I got my batteries cheap so my upfront outlay was seriously reduced. I needed to buy the inverter and controller.
    It will not be financially viable at this time but it will allow you to prepare for no grid if it becomes viable or you have blackouts.
    Doing the sums it becomes obvious that as you reduce your usage the fixed costs become a problem. Minimum usage fees (2 units per day) plus standing charges and taxes cannot be avoided.
    My meter was an import/export unit so did not need changing for night rate. ESB came out and made the adjustments. Normally this costs to have installed and removed if you change your mind.
    I should be able to charge up at night for half the cost of day rate. Solar input in summer will provide most of the charging for free. Then manage the loads so we stick within battery capacity and use what we can at night obviously. In theory we are using 100% night rate electricity which is half the cost (plus the fixed costs). Looking for a reliable supplier that does not have minimum usage penalty.
    Bread baking is a problem as Mrs Freddy does not want to bake at midnight!!


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  • #7
    ruairihev
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭ruairihev


    A networking rack is a nice tidy way to house the modular batteries. I've just used brackets that allow the lithium batteries to be stacked vertically. About 2200 usable WattHours in each so with 3 batteries it's 6600Wh in total. 48V system with a Victron MultiPlus 3000VA inverter/charger, solar charge controller and 6 x 325W panels. Generator back up as it's off grid so not entirely the same as what you are thinking of doing.


  • #8
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,703 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    freddyuk wrote: »
    My meter was an import/export unit so did not need changing for night rate. ESB came out and made the adjustments. Normally this costs to have installed and removed if you change your mind.

    Common misconception. It costs nothing to have a night rate meter installed

    If you change you mind later and want to replace the night meter with a standard 24h one rate meter, that will indeed cost you


  • #9
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    Is he not talking about import/export meter costing more?


  • #10
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,703 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    There is no point getting an import/export meter as you will not be paid anything for any electricity you export.


  • #11
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    My error there is no cost to have night rate meter installed only to have it removed. There is a cost for import/export meter (smart meter) but unless you are on the early adopter scheme you will not get paid for any export back to the grid. Smart meters are being rolled out I understand but the UK has had massive issues with their roll out so I am not convinced Ireland will be any different. Mine is still read manually although it can send info remotely this function is not active. ??


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  • #12
    rolion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    I had a typical analogue meter.
    It developed the bad habit that was spinning backwards, feeding the PV electricity to grid but fcukign increasing my bill !
    I got the new digital meter and I kept an eye on it.
    Then, i switched to day and night (forced by the EV) but was same meter and not changed by supplier.Kind of regret the change but I will keep it for q while as the PV panels will start producing will cover most of the day time energy demands of the house.

    Last week, i got a UK based smart meter, forward and reverse generation (aka import / export meter here).Beauty of it, i can monitor it online via 4G with exact standardised figures and not guessing from OWL or energenie.
    Is installed apart of the legal standard ESB and does the job.
    I can create graphs so that I can what or who is energy hungry and what time of pattern my house has during the hour, day and week.

    The only reason I will pay for the import / export meter is to make sure I can differentiate the production vs generation so that I can adjust the patterns of consumption vs generation, across house circuits and human behaviour.


  • #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    ruairihev wrote: »
    anything less than 0 degrees and your lithium should not be charged.
    ....and have a round trip efficiency of about 92%.

    I'm still waiting for the data to prove that claimed efficiency. There's a lottov li-ions running at 300W import running internal heaters to mitigate fire risk.
    Efficiency here is negative. :pac:


  • #14
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,609 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    quentingargan wrote: »
    Batteries are very valuable.

    Was thinking the same myself. If they are located outside a house they could be targetted by burglars. They might be heavy but would be easier to nick than breaking inside and tripping the alarm for the sake of a tv.


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