US Death penalty

corner of hells · 20-01-2019 01:10PM

Pkiernan wrote: »

Most car crashes are not accidents, they are acts of negligence. Stop and have a think about that before replying!

Doesn't change the logic of my argument. Why does your right to drive a car supercede people's right to live?

Banning cars in Ireland would save a lot more innocent lives than ending the death penalty in the US. But you're just trying to make tired left wing arguments.

The second sentence of your first paragraph , I think you should apply that to your replies too.

Gael23 · 20-01-2019 02:17PM

Most of the appeals are down to the lethal drugs used. Change the method and death row will be cleaned out much sooner

Mad_maxx · 20-01-2019 02:21PM

Wibbs wrote: »

God no. And I'm no hippie, I love firearms and would love a small collection of working vintage pieces(Mauser C96 please). I would support a loosening on the restrictions here alright. However it would be a madness to have anything like the US model here. It's a bloody disaster there. The death rate from firearms is insane. Now we can look to the Swiss where firearms are pretty common on the ground, including military grade weapons, but they're a very different culture. Clearly, as unlike the US mentaller muppets going on shooting rampages are bloody rare to nonexistent. I'm not sure we're like the Swiss on this score.

I don't mean in practice what they have in America but intruders more or less have immunity here and the guards couldn't be bothered responding most of the time.

I'm not advocating for access to high powered weapons but we need to enshrine the right to protect your property to its widest interpretation

batgoat · 20-01-2019 02:22PM

Gael23 wrote: »

Most of the appeals are down to the lethal drugs used. Change the method and death row will be cleaned out much sooner

An estimated 1 in 25 people on death row are innocent. That's a pretty high chance of error when it comes to killing a person wrongfully. Also the risk of execution doesn't actually put people off committing incredibly violent crimes.
https://www.newsweek.com/one-25-executed-us-innocent-study-claims-248889

lbc2019 · 20-01-2019 02:23PM

davidk1394 wrote: »

What about the two 13 year old boys who killed that young girl in 2018 or Larry Murphy. The likes of these people should get the DP, once the evidence can prove 100% that it was them.

You would execute 13 year old boys???

Wanderer78 · 20-01-2019 02:25PM

Execution, solves everything, doesn't it!

eagle eye · 20-01-2019 02:26PM

batgoat wrote:

An estimated 1 in 25 people on death row are innocent. That's a pretty high chance of error when it comes to killing a person wrongfully. Also the risk of execution doesn't actually put people off committing incredibly violent crimes.

If somebody ends another person's life they should pay with their own.

Wanderer78 · 20-01-2019 02:27PM

eagle eye wrote:

If somebody ends another person's life they should pay with their own.

And this has prevented others from murdering by.....

eagle eye · 20-01-2019 02:29PM

Wanderer78 wrote:

And this has prevented others from murdering by.....

I don't care if it doesn't stop some other people. The punishment is the nearest thing to fitting the crime.

batgoat · 20-01-2019 02:29PM

eagle eye wrote: »

If somebody ends another person's life they should pay with their own.

Did you conveniently ignore there's a 4 percent chance they're innocent?

Wanderer78 · 20-01-2019 02:30PM

eagle eye wrote:

I don't care if it doesn't stop some other people. The punishment is the nearest thing to fitting the crime.

This should be a political slogan, or something!

eagle eye · 20-01-2019 02:31PM

batgoat wrote:

Did you conveniently ignore there's a 4 percent chance they're innocent?

If there is a doubt then they can use the legal system.

batgoat · 20-01-2019 02:33PM

eagle eye wrote: »

If there is a doubt then they can use the legal system.

Innocent people can and do executed regardless. Also the US justice simply doesn't work that well if you don't have money. So ultimately, you're concluding it's fine to execute the innocent as long as you get the guilty ones as well.

corner of hells · 20-01-2019 02:35PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't care if it doesn't stop some other people. The punishment is the nearest thing to fitting the crime.

Is it revenge you're looking for moreso than justice ?

eagle eye · 20-01-2019 02:36PM

batgoat wrote:

Innocent people can and do executed regardless. Also the US justice simply doesn't work that well if you don't have money. So ultimately, you're concluding it's fine to execute the innocent as long as you get the guilty ones as well.

Where are you getting your stats regarding innocent people being executed?
How far back are you going? Has it been proven beyond a reasonable that they were innocent?

AudreyHepburn · 20-01-2019 02:38PM

I don’t support the death penalty at all - to me it smacks more of revenge than punishment.

If you’ve committed a serious crime then you should be locked in a cell and left there to rot. Death is the easy way out as far as I’m concerned.

eagle eye · 20-01-2019 02:39PM

corner of hells wrote:

Is it revenge you're looking for moreso than justice ?

Justice.
As I said earlier the crime should fit the punishment.
Paedophiles, rapists and people who seriously assault others should have a minimum sentence of being incarcerated until the victim has fully recovered both physically and mentally. If that means they spend the rest of their lives in jail.
If you murder someone there can be no restorative justice for that person so ending the murderer's life is a fitting punishment.

Zaph · 20-01-2019 02:44PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Where are you getting your stats regarding innocent people being executed?
How far back are you going? Has it been proven beyond a reasonable that they were innocent?

Between 1973 and 2015 153 innocent people have been released from death row in the States (source). That would suggest that it clearly hadn't been proven beyond reasonable doubt that they were guilty.

corner of hells · 20-01-2019 02:44PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Where are you getting your stats regarding innocent people being executed?
How far back are you going? Has it been proven beyond a reasonable that they were innocent?

Have a Google of the innocence project ?
It's well worth a read.

eagle eye · 20-01-2019 02:47PM

Zaph wrote:

Since 1973 153 innocent people have been released from death row in the States (

They were released. What's the next numbers for executed people and let's say that were convicted since 2000?

batgoat · 20-01-2019 02:47PM

Zaph wrote: »

Between 1973 and 2015 153 innocent people have been released from death row in the States (source). That would suggest that it clearly hadn't been proven beyond reasonable doubt that they were guilty.

That is also just 1.6% of those on death row. 4.1% estimated to be innocent. One case below basically concluded arson but in retrospect, that may simply have been bad signs in the court room.

https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/cameron-todd-willingham-improper-or-wrongful-conviction-19571

20-01-2019 02:51PM

batgoat wrote: »

That is also just 1.6% of those on death row. 4.1% estimated to be innocent. One case below basically concluded arson but in retrospect, that may simply have been bad signs in the court room.

https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/cameron-todd-willingham-improper-or-wrongful-conviction-19571

Any is too many. Feels like a monthly thing now for black Americans getting released after decades behind bars.

One chance at life and society takes it away. Sad.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 20-01-2019 03:01PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Justice.
As I said earlier the crime should fit the punishment.
Paedophiles, rapists and people who seriously assault others should have a minimum sentence of being incarcerated until the victim has fully recovered both physically and mentally. If that means they spend the rest of their lives in jail.
If you murder someone there can be no restorative justice for that person so ending the murderer's life is a fitting punishment.

Having the punishment fit the crime using your logic would mean raping rspists. Don't know that it means with regard to Pedophiles....

eagle eye · 20-01-2019 03:05PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote:

Having the punishment fit the crime using your logic would mean raping rspists. Don't know that it means with regard to Pedophiles....

No, I said the sentence length should be at a minimum as long as it takes the victim to recover mentally and physically from the crime.
So for instance a serious assault that leaves the victim in a wheelchair for life should result in life behind bars.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 20-01-2019 03:21PM

eagle eye wrote: »

No, I said the sentence length should be at a minimum as long as it takes the victim to recover mentally and physically from the crime.
So for instance a serious assault that leaves the victim in a wheelchair for life should result in life behind bars.

That's not sentence fitting the crime. Life imprisonment (meaning full life) for murder would be te application of the same logic as the logic expressed here.

tuxy · 20-01-2019 03:26PM

Clearly the US system is not working with the murder rate growing in states with the death penalty but staying steady in the states that do not have it.

But is there anything to be said for a bit of sharia law?

eagle eye · 20-01-2019 03:34PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote:

That's not sentence fitting the crime. Life imprisonment (meaning full life) for murder would be te application of the same logic as the logic expressed here.

No it wouldn't and I've already explained that. Restorative isn't possible where the victim is dead.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 20-01-2019 03:43PM

eagle eye wrote: »

No it wouldn't and I've already explained that. Restorative isn't possible where the victim is dead.

Restorative isn't the issue. You can't unmurder someone - correct - but you can't unrape someone either. Your explanation was flawed. I pointed that out.

Punishment fitting the crime means doing to the criminal what they did to someone else. It's not designed to restore anything. It's designed to extract revenge.

eagle eye · 20-01-2019 04:12PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote:

Punishment fitting the crime means doing to the criminal what they did to someone else. It's not designed to restore anything. It's designed to extract revenge.

What are you on about. Our society does not condone rape or murder.
In the case of crimes where the victim survives there is the possibility of restorative justice. I'm saying that in non-murder cases that until the victim recovers from all issues which resulted from the crime that the perpetrator should remain in jail.
When the victims life is ended by murder there isn't the possibility of restorative justice so ending the murderer's life is the fitting punishment.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote:

Restorative isn't the issue. You can't unmurder someone - correct - but you can't unrape someone either. Your explanation was flawed. I pointed that out.

I can't help you if you don't understand what I'm saying. Nothing flawed about what I said.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 20-01-2019 07:23PM

eagle eye wrote: »

What are you on about. Our society does not condone rape or murder.
In the case of crimes where the victim survives there is the possibility of restorative justice. I'm saying that in non-murder cases that until the victim recovers from all issues which resulted from the crime that the perpetrator should remain in jail.
When the victims life is ended by murder there isn't the possibility of restorative justice so ending the murderer's life is the fitting punishment.

I can't help you if you don't understand what I'm saying. Nothing flawed about what I said.

Again, the death penalty not about restoring anything. The death penalty is based on that very idea: we can't restore via justice, so we will therefore restore via balance.

Eye for an eye - we can't restore the victims eye, but we still need balance. The only other way to restore balance is to take the culptit's eye out.

US Death penalty

Comments