Pothole damaged car

GavMan · 16-01-2019 08:07AM #1

So, I pulled into a garage last night for petrol and as I was driving under the canopy, I hit a pothole. I wasn't doing any sort of speed so I didn't really notice anything other than the bang of hitting it.

Filled the car and it was only really when I got out on the road and tried to pick up speed I noticed something was up. But I was passed the point of no return so I limped to a nearby by car park.

Got out and could see the wheel was right up in the arch. Called a recovery and they towed it after an hours wait. He's a mechanic and pretty sure the coil spring is broke but not sure till its on a ramp in good light.

My question is, is it likely the garage has any liability here? Pothole has been there for months (Garage is local to me so I know). Trying to gauge where I stand before talking to the manager. Ideally I would like the costs covered. No more, no less

Gav

Tacitus Kilgore · 16-01-2019 08:09AM

If the pothole was that bad you'd probably have tyre/wheel damage I reckon.

Springs break all the time, I would personally say that it was probably half way out and the pothole finished it off. They're cheap anyway for most cars

bucketybuck · 16-01-2019 08:14AM

You weren't doing any speed and you hit a pothole that you knew had been there for months? And hit it so bad that you broke a coil spring, despite doing no speed?

GavMan · 16-01-2019 09:46AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

You weren't doing any speed and you hit a pothole that you knew had been there for months? And hit it so bad that you broke a coil spring, despite doing no speed?

Couldn't see it in the dark and thought I had avoided it but when I turned, the rear wheel hit it. I didn't have the GPS co-ords of it noted so wasn't sure on its exact location...

Thanks for your helpful advice.

sexmag · 16-01-2019 09:57AM

In one case you've admited you knew it was there so say if someone said they knew there was a spill in an aisle but walked through anyway and slipped who do you think would be wrong? People have a duty of care to themselves.

On the flip side if the pot hole has been there months and was brought to the attention of the garage who have done nothing about it they may be liable.

Best to talk to a solicitor and find out

Gravelly · 16-01-2019 10:00AM

If it is a broken coil spring (surprised a mechanic couldn't tell in about 5 seconds, without having to have it up on a ramp) then I doubt you'll get any comeback - coil springs break, sometimes because you hit a pothole, and sometimes because of metal fatigue or previous damage.

bucketybuck · 16-01-2019 10:21AM

GavMan wrote: »

Couldn't see it in the dark and thought I had avoided it but when I turned, the rear wheel hit it. I didn't have the GPS co-ords of it noted so wasn't sure on its exact location...

Thanks for your helpful advice.

It was a question, not advice, hence the question marks.

My belief would be that such a low speed and minor impact as you describe could not have broken a good coil spring, and that it is very likely that the spring was already close to failure at that point.

And that if you want the garage owner to be liable for costs then at some point you will have to answer how driving into a pothole at low speed breaks a coil spring, and why you drove into a pothole that you knew was there.

GavMan · 16-01-2019 11:49AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

It was a question, not advice, hence the question marks.

My belief would be that such a low speed and minor impact as you describe could not have broken a good coil spring, and that it is very likely that the spring was already close to failure at that point.

And that if you want the garage owner to be liable for costs then at some point you will have to answer how driving into a pothole at low speed breaks a coil spring, and why you drove into a pothole that you knew was there.

Speaking to the Mechanic, if the condition of the opposite spring is any sort of indicator of the condition of the now broken one, then it was in good order. I'm not saying I don't share some of the liability but I think there must be some onus on the proprietor to keep their surface in good order and make repairs in a timely fashion.

As for why I drove into the pothole, I think common sense should inform you that I (and probably no one else) intentionally drives into a pothole. The facetious tone of your replies prompted my previous reply.

As for how a low speed impact could break a good spring, I would imagine that the spring is only designed to be durable in one direction (vertically). I have not had a chance to examine the hole in good light but I would suppose if deep enough and depending on the steepness of the sheer face, the wheel hitting it may have caused a horizontal force through the spring that it was not designed to withstand.

Its not a huge amount of money so it might not be worth my time. Simply wondering where I stand

Gravelly · 16-01-2019 11:53AM

GavMan wrote: »

I would imagine that the spring is only designed to be durable in one direction (vertically). I have not had a chance to examine the hole in good light but I would suppose if deep enough and depending on the steepness of the sheer face, the wheel hitting it may have caused a horizontal force through the spring that it was not designed to withstand.

The suspension of your car is designed to stop that happening - you would need to do severe suspension damage in order to shear the spring like that. Coil springs work through torsion - eventually the steel gives way.

Tacitus Kilgore · 16-01-2019 11:55AM

GavMan wrote: »

As for how a low speed impact could break a good spring, I would imagine that the spring is only designed to be durable in one direction (vertically). I have not had a chance to examine the hole in good light but I would suppose if deep enough and depending on the steepness of the sheer face, the wheel hitting it may have caused a horizontal force through the spring that it was not designed to withstand.

If this horizontal movement occurred it would not be transferred through the spring, the other suspension components would be seriously damaged. The spring simply holds the car up. This theory is not possible

CJhaughey · 16-01-2019 12:34PM

Springs are cheap and a replaceable part, occasionally they break, yours was close to failure and regardless of how good the other side is they are an individual part and the side that broke may have had a lot more wear and tear than the other side.
It might have broken in a day or two just from getting into the car so looking for a petrol station to pay for a spring is frankly ridiculous.

Damien360 · 16-01-2019 12:39PM

The OP posts in the Newbridge forum and I know the pothole is on the road, not on station premises. That station has steel ramps that would do damage if driven at speed on them.

Typically if it on the road, you approach the council for failure to repair but I'm pretty sure you need to have either you or someone else to have highlighted its presence previously. I have never heard of KCC paying this but I have relatives who have done similar against DCC. Part only covered and not labour.

Tacitus Kilgore · 16-01-2019 12:44PM

€23 for a new spring as I posted on the motors forum. (Thanks for thanks OP)

1 hour and a set of spring compressors will see it done.

bucketybuck · 16-01-2019 01:00PM

GavMan wrote: »

As for how a low speed impact could break a good spring, I would imagine that the spring is only designed to be durable in one direction (vertically). I have not had a chance to examine the hole in good light but I would suppose if deep enough and depending on the steepness of the sheer face, the wheel hitting it may have caused a horizontal force through the spring that it was not designed to withstand.

As others have noted, if there was horizontal force sufficient to break a good spring, then it would first have had to damage quite a lot of the suspension.

I wasn't there and didn't see what happened, but occams razor would say that for the pothole to break the spring then one of these things must be true: a) that the spring was close to failure anyway, b) that the pothole was hit at speed, or c) that the pothole was extremely large and deep.

If the answer is C then there is still the question of why such a large hazard was not seen by the driver and what speed it was hit at, since even a large pothole won't break a spring at <5km/ph.

Those are simply the questions I would be preparing answers for before going any further.

Damien360 wrote: »

The OP posts in the Newbridge forum and I know the pothole is on the road, not on station premises.

He was pretty explicit that it was in the station itself.

GavMan wrote: »

So, I pulled into a garage last night for petrol and as I was driving under the canopy, I hit a pothole.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 16-01-2019 01:06PM

So is the pothole in the garage or on the road?

You say the pothole was there for months. During that time did you inform the garage or council there was a pothole that needed to be filled/repaired.

GavMan · 16-01-2019 02:15PM

It is 100% on the premises of the garage. I can only go by what the Mechanic is saying since I haven't seen the spring yet off the car. He is saying the opposite side is good and no obvious sing of wear and tear on the broken one. Hard to know if there would be any obvious sign now that its broken.

Buckety is probably right, and its probably a combo of A and C in his post

As I said, its not that big of a deal since it isn't going to cost that much to put right and while a gesture of good faith would be nice (since they can't have not noticed it), I probably wont bother based on the prevailing thought in this thread and the time investment required. My father did actually get the cost of a damaged tyre from SDCC that was damaged by a pothole that had been reported and not fixed. I was just thinking this would be similar.

That being said, I will probably bring it to their attention because it is going to cause someone more serious damage at some point. Not that I'm sure others have at some point and I don't think it really limits liability whether I knew about it or whether they knew about it. If the inference is that I did it deliberately then it would be difficult to prove that.

I think this thread has served its purpose

GavMan · 16-01-2019 02:16PM

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

€23 for a new spring as I posted on the motors forum. (Thanks for thanks OP)

1 hour and a set of spring compressors will see it done.

Hadn't checked that thread, just this one. I've thanked it now

Pothole damaged car

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