Has the internet ruined our lives and made us all self centered selfish snowflakes.

Mr. Incognito · 03-01-2019 12:19PM #1

I am at an age where I remember the internet actually becoming a thing.

First it was chat rooms, then facebook, then snapchat, now instagram and twitter.

We have literally unlimited information at our disposal. The Vast Library of Human knowledge, ALL knowledge, in a small phone beside us.

I'm no psychologist but human behaviour has changed enormously as I can see. I was coming back to Dublin on a train over Christmas and a girl was in the carriage travelling alone taking dozens of selfies as you do.

It used to be rude to have your phone out when you were talkig to people but is socially acceptable now. And god help you if you go to a gig or anything scenic. It's just people taking 2 minute videos of things (Does anybody actually watch these things?? or selfies in front of some vista. )

Basically it's all me, me, me, me, me. Whatever vacous thought you have, post it on twitter. Every meal you have on instagram.

And people consume this tripe.

The unbridled vastness of information and people want to watch someone apply make up or take selfies at the gym.

I was watching a documentary about an air show crash that happened in post war britain. They had the crash and they cleared the dead pilots and spectactors and got on with the rest of the show.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1952_Farnborough_Airshow_crash

This blew my mind. They literally cleared their dead relatives, popped everyone off to hospital and got on with the day with the kiddies. One of the survivors was interviewed and said it was just after the war and people were tough and resilient and just got on with things. If that happened today there would be an hyper orgy of media grief for months. Just look at how recent disasters have been treated.

Despite all this vast information people are less educated, less knowledgable, less considered because they spend their day watching cat videos or equally vaous twits or reading issues that have been condensed to 160 characters. Journalism has been reduced to ctrl C ctrl V and throw in a few comments from twitter users.

The poster boy of course is Trump who is literally throwing a hissy fit in the US until he gets his wall. A 70+ year old throwing a 5 year olds tantrum.

But the consequence of this me me me me me culture without any engagement or empathy has very real consequences. It dehumanises and simplifies issues. It divides people. The consequences of the internet has meant that all the village idiots could get together and starting spreding nonsense like anti vaccine propoganda.

It seems to be accelerating. Brexit which was a bum fight in the conservative party is a disaster. Politicians literally said "we can have our cake and eat it". What sort of idiot says that. What sort of idiot actually believes that.

I know that the genie is out of the bottle and I realise the inherent irony of complaining about the internet, on the internet but Its really profound the negative consequences or the darker side of humans it has helped amplify.

TLDR. Is the internet actually destroying us as a species or are we basically a bunch of selfish bastards anyway.

Effects · 03-01-2019 12:26PM

You sound like quite the snowflake yourself.

03-01-2019 12:29PM

Ironically, considering all the modes of communication at our disposal social skills have regressed. Walk into a pub for instance, half the punters are staring downward into a screen. The art of conversation is diminishing, subsumed by a braying idiot on YouTube selling his myopic version of the world. Instant gratification is the buzz with fact-checking out the window, and he shouts the loudest courts the most clowns.

eviltimeban · 03-01-2019 12:29PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Brexit which was a bum fight

It sure was.

Jim 77 · 03-01-2019 12:31PM

Just be thankful you got to experience a time before the internet became all-pervasive.

_Kaiser_ · 03-01-2019 12:35PM

I too am around long enough to remember life before the Internet and I remember the general advice in those early days of the online world was to not take it too seriously and have a bit of a thicker skin as there will be muppetry.

Seems like that advice is even more relevant today in the era of people living through their phones and soaking up the worst of the American-led nonsense.

dense · 03-01-2019 12:35PM

I know nothing about people posting pictures of their meals on social media, nor do I want to.

Why subscribe to the nonsense and then complain about what you're subscribing to???

Detach yourself from the vacuous nonsense if it's upsetting you.

As for people taking selfies, yes they're obviously self obsessed. Are they doing any harm? Difficult to say. Do I want my kids doing it? No, why, well I don't really know, other than having some feeling that their photos if online could be fodder for paedos.

MrCostington · 03-01-2019 12:39PM

I have to say I agree, there are many plus points but seems more negative re the internet. The internet/smartphone seems to have turned the majority of under 30's anyway into mindless zombies, was just looking at a girl walk by me this morning at the lights, engrossed in phone and I thought people theses days can't seem to bear being alone.

So, I've very mixed feelings about the internet, and, that's how I make my living!

Apiarist · 03-01-2019 12:40PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I am at an age where I remember the internet actually becoming a thing.

First it was chat rooms, then facebook, then snapchat, now instagram and twitter. .

Jeez, youngsters these days complaining about internet. I was there before the the interwebs. I have to dial up to a BBS to leave a message for someone and to pick up new messages. Oh, the insults that you can invent when you have a day to answer a message :cool:

I would conjecture that there are no actual snowflakes on the internet. Instead they are manipulators who cannot argue their case so they derail a discussion into a comparison of hurt feelings. It is just a tactic. Unfortunately, it works just as well as swamping a discussion with any stupid waffle, offtopic and so on.

eviltimeban · 03-01-2019 12:44PM

The internet isn't the problem, it wasn't even putting it in people's pockets via phones. It's really social media been taken over by advertisers / "influencers" / paid promotions / Google following your every step / people sharing nonsense on their feeds / SJW / "fake news" / Daily Mail-type scare tactics / etc.

I remember when I was first on Facebook, it was a great way to stay in touch with people / get back in touch with old friends / share photos and updates. Now it's just a load of nonsense shared on people's feeds, people that you often don't even know. I unfollowed pretty much everyone and everything I had previously followed and it really made no difference to my life. I've since deactivated the account, after 11 years.

Instagram is easier to deal with as it's just photos. I'm finding Twitter a right pain now as well. The best one for me at the moment is Reddit; you can subscribe to only what you want to see, and it doesn't suggest anything you don't want to see. Plus you can look at generally popular categories if you feel like going a bit wider. It's sort of going back to the an older-style message board.

_Kaiser_ · 03-01-2019 12:44PM

MrCostington wrote: »

I have to say I agree, there are many plus points but seems more negative re the internet. The internet/smartphone seems to have turned the majority of under 30's anyway into mindless zombies, was just looking at a girl walk by me this morning at the lights, engrossed in phone and I thought people theses days can't seem to bear being alone.

So, I've very mixed feelings about the internet, and, that's how I make my living!

The problem with social media is it's not entirely avoidable what with companies using it for customer service and updates.

I use the Internet as a tool and as a source of entertainment, but I have no interest in posting the details of my dinner, random pictures of myself or or other such "look at me" nonsense.

But as I say, I'm old enough to remember life long before the Internet and smartphones, and was in college when Win95 came out so it didn't suck me in the same way as it seems to have the younger generation.

I do genuinely worry about my 6 year old though and the effects this trend will have on him. He's already playing games on the phone and watching Youtube videos. What will things be like in a decade from now if it's gotten to a state where many can't switch off now?

eviltimeban · 03-01-2019 12:46PM

^ Windows 95 was a really great OS.

Ger Roe · 03-01-2019 12:49PM

Here's an opinion that I will offer.... to be shot down in flames.

I think the problem arises when you make anything easy to access by those who would otherwise have no idea about how it works, what it could do, and how to use it. When you 'App' everything so that there is no effort required to use it or no consequence, then that service or facility or technology descends rapidly towards the lowest level possible.

The internet hasn't ruined our lives or made us ALL, self centered snowflakes, just those who would have otherwise had no interest (or ability) in being on it in the first place. Microsoft, Google etc have made it easier and easier for people to have access to very powerful resources that they don't understand and wouldn't have been bothered with, only for the fact that it was made easy for them so that they could be targeted for exploitation by very clever marketing focused companies.

The sad fact is that most people don't understand that they are pawns in the biggest corporate games that have ever been played and we are all in a worldwide social experiment.

My tinfoil hat is firmly attached, for my own protection.

nthclare · 03-01-2019 12:50PM

The only reason I hesitate about not bringing a phone somewhere with me is in case I get broken down in the middle of nowhere...

I could quite happily do without it for a few days, it's like a modern day book of life...

The essential magic book of the present.

After all, looking back in time if anyone could hear a description of a smart phone 100 years ago, if would be inconceivable....

The magic book

com1 · 03-01-2019 12:55PM

It's all been and seen, ADHD and Dyslexia.

And, _Kaiser_, take the bloody phone off him!

_Kaiser_ · 03-01-2019 12:56PM

Ger Roe wrote: »

Here's an opinion that I will offer.... to be shot down in flames.

I think the problem arises when you make anything easy to access by those who would otherwise have no idea about how it works, what it could do, and how to use it. When you 'App' everything so that there is no effort required to use it or no consequence, then that service or facility or technology descends rapidly towards the lowest level possible.

The internet hasn't ruined our lives or made us ALL, self centered snowflakes, just those who would have otherwise had no interest (or ability) in being on it in the first place. Microsoft, Google etc have made it easier and easier for people to have access to very powerful resources that they don't understand and wouldn't have been bothered with, only for the fact that it was made easy for them so that they could be targeted for exploitation by very clever marketing focused companies.

The sad fact is that most people don't understand that they are pawns in the biggest corporate games that have ever been played and we are all in a worldwide social experiment.

My tinfoil hat is firmly attached, for my own protection.

There is an element of people who previously would have been dismissed as cranks or ending up in the likes of The Sun or the National Enquirer now being able to get their "message" out to a much wider/global audience.

Phrase it just right and it might go "viral" and be picked up by previously legitimate news agencies which are now staffed with 20-somethings who live for this stuff. They in turn repost it on the News page of their employer (who struggles to come up with enough actual news now that physical paper isn't a problem anymore) and boom - suddenly it looks like legitimate headline news.

Trump's random Twitterings are a prime example, but it's a lot more widespread than that.

_Kaiser_ · 03-01-2019 12:57PM

com1 wrote: »

It's all been and seen, ADHD and Dyslexia.

And, _Kiaser_, take the bloody phone off him!

I would, but it's his mother's phone he uses (and she's happy to use it as a way to entertain him). He won't be getting one of his own for a long time yet though.

Gimme A Pound · 03-01-2019 12:57PM

Effects wrote: »

You sound like quite the snowflake yourself.

Meaningless comment.

Don't know about "our" and "us all" - it is a great resource which I'd prefer to have than not to, and it is how you use it and what you allow yourself to see or not (although it is dishonest to say you can control all of it) and it probably isn't harming (as much) those who remember life before it, but it is of course causing negative behaviour. The biggest problem in my opinion is the spread of misinformation by absolute morons. Anti vax crowd being good example. Also the freeman stuff - and other crowds whose ethos is basically "You shouldn't have to pay for stuff you need" and it gets lapped up.

valoren · 03-01-2019 12:58PM

An example.

Was sitting at home and remembered a golf course I played once in north Cork. For the life of me I couldn't remember it. Spent a few minutes trying to think of it, it was on the tip of my tongue but relented and used google maps to take a look. Kanturk was the answer. So we really don't have to think anymore. Information is there, literally at the touch of a button. That is a powerful thing with positives and negatives.

realitykeeper · 03-01-2019 01:00PM

We need Christian Brothers to beat the internet out of the young.

Gimme A Pound · 03-01-2019 01:00PM

Kanturk IS pretty forgettable though.

Ger Roe wrote: »

Here's an opinion that I will offer.... to be shot down in flames.

I think the problem arises when you make anything easy to access by those who would otherwise have no idea about how it works, what it could do, and how to use it. When you 'App' everything so that there is no effort required to use it or no consequence, then that service or facility or technology descends rapidly towards the lowest level possible.

The internet hasn't ruined our lives or made us ALL, self centered snowflakes, just those who would have otherwise had no interest (or ability) in being on it in the first place. Microsoft, Google etc have made it easier and easier for people to have access to very powerful resources that they don't understand and wouldn't have been bothered with, only for the fact that it was made easy for them so that they could be targeted for exploitation by very clever marketing focused companies.

The sad fact is that most people don't understand that they are pawns in the biggest corporate games that have ever been played and we are all in a worldwide social experiment.

My tinfoil hat is firmly attached, for my own protection.

I don't think you'll be shot down in flames at all. That's spot-on.

Mr. Incognito · 03-01-2019 01:01PM

victor8600 wrote: »

I would conjecture that

This is the absoloutely perfect response setting aside the grammatical difficulties.

A conjecture is an opinion formed on the basis of incomplete information.

"I would conjecture that" could be the preface for 99% of the internet's contents including my OP.

If this isnt a thing it should be.

Thank you.

Liam28 · 03-01-2019 01:04PM

It's called progress OP. Like other technologies such as the telephone, car, plane, computer, email, etc, in general it improves people's lives, but has some drawbacks. You are not the first to nostalgically reminisce that things were better without X, or back in dd/mm/yyyy.
However you are probably the first to use an air show disaster from 1950's Britain to illustrate your point. But you fail to make any connection between this example and your internet rant. Is it that they cleared up 29 dead bodies and 60 injuries and debris and just got on with the show? So this made people less selfish back then? Yet later in your rant, you say the self-centered culture is dehumanising? So today, because of the internet, people are snowflakes and would have stopped the show? Or would people be taking selfies of the carnage, and posting on social media? Probably, but would the show continue? Probably not, which seems to contradict your point.

dense · 03-01-2019 01:06PM

A comedian was talking about people socially excluding themselves with phones.

His angle was how can "boring" real life compete with what's at your disposal on the net....

harr · 03-01-2019 01:06PM

https://youtu.be/hER0Qp6QJNU

Seen this video posted on another thread.. some good points being made.

Drumpot · 03-01-2019 01:08PM

Ger Roe wrote: »

Here's an opinion that I will offer.... to be shot down in flames.

I think the problem arises when you make anything easy to access by those who would otherwise have no idea about how it works, what it could do, and how to use it. When you 'App' everything so that there is no effort required to use it or no consequence, then that service or facility or technology descends rapidly towards the lowest level possible.

The internet hasn't ruined our lives or made us ALL, self centered snowflakes, just those who would have otherwise had no interest (or ability) in being on it in the first place. Microsoft, Google etc have made it easier and easier for people to have access to very powerful resources that they don't understand and wouldn't have been bothered with, only for the fact that it was made easy for them so that they could be targeted for exploitation by very clever marketing focused companies.

The sad fact is that most people don't understand that they are pawns in the biggest corporate games that have ever been played and we are all in a worldwide social experiment.

My tinfoil hat is firmly attached, for my own protection.

I don’t think it has to be either or when having these discussions.

The derogatory word “snowflake” , as I understand it, is about the hyper sensitivity of a certain section of society? Given the way political correctness has gone into hyper overdrive, I’m not sure how this can be disputed. The internet and mobile phones access has become an extension of people and given them a voice that they might not of used previously.

I wouldn’t say the internet has made snowflakes in so much as it’s allowed that self absorbed , sensitive part of people thrive. It’s given it an audience and a stage and many people have lost the art of “if there is nothing nice to say, say nothing”. We have also turned back the clock to the age of burning witches . Death by media shaming is now an acceptable method of justice being served. It’s like the Wild West of courts where anybody can string up somebody they don’t like and there is little to no ramifications.

Where I am concerned is that we are pathetic a species as it is trying to sort out major issues and that we keep repeating. The internet has pushed us closer to the species depicted in idiocracy. I find it amusing when people confidently dismiss the possibility of our species regressing. We have regressed, having shiny phones doesn’t change that. You can always find people who will make posts marveling at all the wonderful things we have achieved in the last 30 years.

To be honest our last great achievement was getting to the moon and that was basically motivated by the Americans wanting to beat the Russians. Like two schoolchildren vying to be the cool kids. When you take a step back and look at the things we can do as a specifies it’s quite pathetic where we have prioritized investment and resources and the things we need to motivate us to act. I mean we are even not bothering to address climate change with an “ah sure it will be grand” approach.

Our biggest threats, climate change, disease , some sort of solar flair that could destroy the worlds power grid, a meteorite... Statistically lowish chances of happening but like death they will happen and we don’t know when. There’s even a chunk of an island that could fall into the ocean anytime that could cause tidal waves on the entire east coast of USA and all they do is monitor it.

The human species is tragically flawed. It’s funny when you hear about AI potentially having self awareness, I think many many people lack this very trait. It’s one of the reasons you hear about when people are dieing or get very bad news and they all of a sudden are aware of how shallow they lived their lives....

com1 · 03-01-2019 01:09PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I would, but it's his mother's phone he uses (and she's happy to use it as a way to entertain him). He won't be getting one of his own for a long time yet though.

Ahh, fair enough, makes perfect sense now!

Wibbs · 03-01-2019 01:09PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Despite all this vast information people are less educated, less knowledgable, less considered because they spend their day watching cat videos or equally vaous twits or reading issues that have been condensed to 160 characters. Journalism has been reduced to ctrl C ctrl V and throw in a few comments from twitter users.

I would disagree Mr. In. People are more informed today in general. The rose tinted glasses of the past tends to obscure how little people knew beyond their own lives/work/interests. More, how hard it was to get information and from different sources. Sure the sources are all over the place now and require an open and discerning mind to sift through them, but they at least are there*.

There is most definitely a vibe of "in my day..." going on. Well in Your Day™ that you felt most comfortable in I guarantee the vast majority of the previous generation were asking WTF about you. At least with the interwebs there's more of a spread of generations. It's what I like about it. What you dug when you were twenty or whatever, people of sixty would be oblivious to, even suspicious of, whereas unless you tell me your age, or act a bit stereotypically for a certain age I wouldn't know whether you were twenty or seventy. This is a good thing.

TLDR. Is the internet actually destroying us as a species or are we basically a bunch of selfish bastards anyway.

Neither IMHO. We're at heart a social animal who collects knowledge. All of the positives and negatives of the interwebs comes from those two angles. Add in money as a third. What is a concern is how web companies are fine tuning their attention seeking triggers more and more. Information is gold, but attention is how you mine it and our basic humanity is well... basic, so easy to mine. It's how arsebook et al function. It can lead to more self centred behaviour alright. It has also led to more and more polarisation into factions compared to the past. QV the fall of linear forum spaces like Boards and the rise of Facebook, Twitter, Reddit and the like where birds of a feather flock and create more and more echo chambers, where the group consensus is promoted because any contrary opinions are either downvoted or banned, if they ever get invited in the first place. That's a pity and a concern. It's great for companies and advertisers though, as it handily prepackages your client base into neat groups you can sell stuff and ideas to.

I would say I've seen a rise in things like autism spectrum type people. I would suspect the internet has helped fuel that. There were always people out of step, but it was harder to be a loner, or at least it was more obvious. There can also be a tendency for people to self identify as X, find others with X, find more info about X. Which are positives, but the negatives can be egging each other on to be more X than the next guy.

*from childhood I was always an information junkie to the point of mania. Pre Interwebs how I did it were books and of all things monthly hobby/enthusiast magazines. I used to go into Easons and often picked titles at random. I found three months of a particular hobby/enthusiast mag would give you a fair gist of the subject. Like I say; mad.

I was an even more insufferable prick pre web, now folks figure I'm googling stuff so the heat's off.

Zorya · 03-01-2019 01:19PM

The internet has been great, but I see censorship creeping in, the logarithms are open to manipulation. It is harder to search for stuff outside of the spin.

I have met some good people (and a fair amount of assholes)via the internet that I share a lot of the same opinions with, which is a relief as otherwise my general world view goes down a bomb on this mountain.

There's only so much head-shaking and eyebrow-raising a body can take coming at them.

My phone is a Nokia, not wifi connected, which suits me, so if I am out and about the world could fall asunder and I would never know. But my kids can still call me wondering if they left their good hat behind them after the Christmas.

You can choose to live a life that is interesting enough to regularly break the draw of the undeniably mind stimulating surf through the interwebz.

Wibbs · 03-01-2019 01:20PM

valoren wrote: »

An example.

Was sitting at home and remembered a golf course I played once in north Cork. For the life of me I couldn't remember it. Spent a few minutes trying to think of it, it was on the tip of my tongue but relented and used google maps to take a look. Kanturk was the answer. So we really don't have to think anymore. Information is there, literally at the touch of a button. That is a powerful thing with positives and negatives.

Yep. Like writing. Julius Caesar of all dudes noted this about the Celts and their incredible memories because of their oral culture and wondered if his cultures more reliance on writing and books, external memory as it were, was a positive or negative. Plato, a intellectual effin giant mused similarly, if even more so against the notion of writing. He thought writing risked a scholar not exercising their memories and that such a scholar who relied on the written word was an empty shadow of the real deal. And both of them were wrong as it turned out.

When the printing press hit Europe there were similar concerns and not just from out of work scribes. Leonardo DaVinci wasn't taken by the invention and never published in his lifetime(he rattled up a frontispiece for a mate's book, because he was a good mate that way, but that was it). It would be like I dunno Stephen Hawking refusing to use the internet. Yet without the printing press almost everything you take for granted wouldn't exist.

facehugger99 · 03-01-2019 01:24PM

I have a 15 year old niece (by marriage). She did a bit of babysitting for us over Christmas. She literally never took the phone out of her hand the whole time we were talking to her, hardly made eye-contact.

We were making small talk like 'how's school going?' and she's just staring at her phone occasionally tapping at the screen while giving monosyllabic answers.

I'm not sure if she's typical of that generation, but if she is god fcuking help them.

Has the internet ruined our lives and made us all self centered selfish snowflakes.

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